This is what i had in mind creating the thread! Keep the discussion running as long as we are civil and polite as a true Clan warrior would be (if you really disagree just draw a circle in the sand behind your house and invite him to prove his rightness
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A valiant attempt but flawed from the very beginning. The task set upon return & "return we shall" is mentioned, is to protect but ONLY if mankind steps back from the abyss. The return is not & has never been in question, it is the action to be taken upon the return. You mention that the new generations of leaders show they can cooperate, when actually you show how they cannot.
If by "never in question" you refer to the General Order 137, i told you that it has to be contextualized. The promise of return was meant to give the Exiles trust in the future and in the General. In the Voice of Kerensky he told us what was the reason behind the Exodus: prevent the destruction of the Sphere. Such message was meant to arrive much later in the Inner Sphere, setting a time window for the return he expected. He would never have agreed to return after only three centuries.
1. Outreach occurred AFTER the Clans arrived, they had decades to work **** out & refused to. Speaking of Outreach, the IS NEVER united & by that I mean the entirety of the IS. The CC refused to align themselves with anyone & the only way the FC got the FWL to help out was to blackmail Thomas Marik with the life of his sick child. To quote Thomas,
Every big change is sparked by an important event.
Thomas Marik did not join such alliance but at least did not represent a threat to the peace of the Inner Sphere. See also Knights of the Inner Sphere.
The change was there..
2. The Second "Star League" fell apart proving it was a sham. An ad hoc measure designed to solve a particular problem is not, was not & could never be a true representation of the SLDF.
True enough, but i see it as a good sign if sworn enemies have allied themselves to face a common threat, recognizing the wisdom of it. It created a precedent and no one can say it will never happen again.
I have made my case numerous times over. The only logical path a Clansman who claims to follow Kerensky can take is that of a Crusader because the lore says so. file:///E:UsersMAppDataLocalTempmsohtmlclip11clip_image002.gif Stop fighting it Cycloner.
Neg, trothkin. Would a true warrior refrain from fighting for what he holds as true? file:///E:UsersMAppDataLocalTempmsohtmlclip11clip_image004.gif
P.S. Remind me, which IS leader called for the meeting on Outreach to unite the IS? file:///E:UsersMAppDataLocalTempmsohtmlclip11clip_image004.gif
Read my comment before about an important event needed to spark a change.
You do make a valid point there but my question is: How can the Clans rule over the rebuilt Star League without becoming as corrupt as the Innersphere houses? If you look at many of the top levels of the Clans you already start to see this corruption festering and growing. This coupled with arrogance of the leadership prevents them from seeing that they are no better than the people that they claim to be saving by conquering them.
Seyla.
Where I would like to agree with you, I can not. Yes the words of the Great Kerensky say that we should go back and ward the IS and bring it back to glory, but we would be stabbed in the back. You know of the great corruption that drives the IS political and military systems. You know that they would let us in the door only to step onto a trap. You know they would find ways to rise back to power, WITH the might of our own technology, and use it against us. That can not and will not happen. Not only is the IS in a technological dark age, but The Fed Com is posed to take over most of the IS, and they will not just accept us peacefully. Let alone would we even be able to rule them. I know what our Great Father said, but he did not know what would become of the IS without his great knowledge. The history and info of the IS that your, Wolf Dragoons, have recovered prove this. Why do you ignore what your own CLAN says. The evidence only supports that this corruption will only be possible through purging the *****.
Is this not actually reinforcing my point? Shall we live apart and not get corrupted by the Inner Sphere?
But even in the current era, they kill themselves in droves over worlds and materials, instead of conserving their materials and fighting with honor.
They do not need to. From the very beginning humans have fought wars without honor.
then we
must crush those causing the corruption, through fire and blood. Metal may only become a sword through fire, molding, and cooling. Our assaults will be fire, our social enlightening the molding, and our faithful protection the cooling. This is the goal. This is what our Great Father would have wanted.
I would say our Great Father's words contradict you
That is a flaw that will never be fixed because of how the Clans were written. Had the Clans won, the entire framework of the IS would have changed & been molded to take a Clan shape. The corruption began right after Tukkayid. Arrogance of leadership has been tempered with humility. Both of the pure Crusader Clans from the Big Four got tastes; the Jaguars got their own at Wolcott & the Falcons on Twycross.
Not true.
If the Clans had won on Tukayyid, ComStar would never have handed Terra to them. Even if they did, what would the Clans have accomplished? We want it for its symbolic value as cradle of mankind and former seat of the Star League. From a military point of view it is just another planet, furthermore very far from any line of supply if taken winning the proxy battle on Tukayyid.
IS forces could just have attacked Terra and masse. The IlClan, without possibility to reinforce it, would have lost it (and think of the loss of face!).
However, i think the little cooperation and the arrogance of most of the Khans told us we (at least most of the Clans) are not ready to conquer the Inner Sphere, let alone
rule it.
Rebellions and uprisings would still be common even if the Clans managed to take over the whole Sphere. It would not be the end at all. The Clans' resources are limited and not enough even to defeat ALL the FedCom forces.
That makes no sense. The rulers were already a threat to the people. You seem to forget that in the IS, anyone is fair game when it comes to war. There is no rule where only the warriors fight, get injured and/or killed. Why should a baker have to worry about getting shot by a mech or have an artillery strike destroy his home? Or a butcher, or a teacher or a fisherman etc.? The IS put together the Ares Convention then disregarded it & **** on it.
When two Clans fight, for whatever reason it may be, it is well clear of any civilians.
True, but we cannot presume we can or should change someone else's way of life. It cannot end well. If a dispotic Clan conquests a planet, i am sure even a baker or fisherman would try to do something to hurt a bit the invaders. Unrest spread over thousand of light years is not
ruling but
pretending to be ruling.
Maybe, however, things might have not been so bad if the Wolf Clan had won the race to Earth, as it was going to and had become IlClan putting Ulrick Kerensky in the place of IlKhan for life. He was a leader who sought to understand the Inner Sphere and not be blinded by prejudice.
EDIT: the quote tags are giving me troubles, will edit later.
Edited by CyclonerM, 14 January 2014 - 07:03 AM.