48 replies to this topic

[Dirus Nigh]

This is the only game were I've had people demand doing a simple logical task, like firing a weapon, is to easy to do. I have not seen this on any of the Battlefield forums. COD kiddies do not complain about real logical aim and fire for weapons.

Why is this the only game were the very loud and insane minority fan base demands absurd complexity, for the sake of complexity in order to feel like they have skill? Will they only be happy if you need to do a mortal combat finishing move just to fire a common medium laser?

Making a game system more complex and clunky dose not promote, or prove you have skill. It makes it illogical, and cumbersome. True skill comes with teamwork, maneuvering, and understanding the capabilities of your equipment and that of the opponents.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Dirus Nigh, on 10 January 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

This is the only game were I've had people demand doing a simple logical task, like firing a weapon, is to easy to do. I have not seen this on any of the Battlefield forums. COD kiddies do not complain about real logical aim and fire for weapons.

Why is this the only game were the very loud and insane minority fan base demands absurd complexity, for the sake of complexity in order to feel like they have skill? Will they only be happy if you need to do a mortal combat finishing move just to fire a common medium laser?

Making a game system more complex and clunky dose not promote, or prove you have skill. It makes it illogical, and cumbersome. True skill comes with teamwork, maneuvering, and understanding the capabilities of your equipment and that of the opponents.

Do any of the other games have giant slow moving robots with multiple hit box locations each with their own individual armor and internal structure values?

No?

That's why.

Also maybe if you understood where this game comes from. You have a Battletech signature, so I hope you have at least an idea.

But the premise of a Battlemech is that it is a king of the battle field. These mechs were supposed to take a lot of punishment. Every time you read about a battle in one of the novel's, it was never "He leveled his 2 PPC's and 1 Gauss at my center torso, pulled the trigger twice in 10 seconds and killed my mech".

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 10 January 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

Do any of the other games have giant slow moving robots with multiple hit box locations each with their own individual armor and internal structure values?

No?

That's why.

Also maybe if you understood where this game comes from. You have a Battletech signature, so I hope you have at least an idea.

But the premise of a Battlemech is that it is a king of the battle field. These mechs were supposed to take a lot of punishment. Every time you read about a battle in one of the novel's, it was never "He leveled his 2 PPC's and 1 Gauss at my center torso, pulled the trigger twice in 10 seconds and killed my mech".

However that is what is happening in those moments. I used to write FanFiction as a Member of the BattleCorps Legion, I would roll my to hits and describe my maneuvering for what turned out to be less than 45 seconds of combat (Using 10 second turns). In one story we took out a Hunchback in 30 seconds. It took longer to read the dance of death than it took to do the deed!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

However that is what is happening in those moments. I used to write FanFiction as a Member of the BattleCorps Legion, I would roll my to hits and describe my maneuvering for what turned out to be less than 45 seconds of combat (Using 10 second turns). In one story we took out a Hunchback in 30 seconds. It took longer to read the dance of death than it took to do the deed!

I'm fine with snapping off some hits, getting a bit lucky and taking a mech out quick. Which is also something that happened.

But now it's just so fundamentally boring.

It's a large slow moving target, we shove as many big guns as we can into one mech, and click the same button over and over with pinpoint accuracy.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

So yet again the Devs listened to the crybabies and yet again we have another nerf to appease the unskilled players. So I foresee the never ending cycle of nerfing till we come back around to the top of the list again only to start all over! The AC20 did not need a nerf, the AC10 certainly did not need a nerf, and in fact I would say no weapon in the past year needed a nerf or it's firing mechanic changed to appease the unskilled non thinking player. This game just keeps getting dumbed down to make whiners happy instead of forcing them to improve and become better players.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Werewolf486, on 10 January 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

So yet again the Devs listened to the crybabies and yet again we have another nerf to appease the unskilled players. So I foresee the never ending cycle of nerfing till we come back around to the top of the list again only to start all over! The AC20 did not need a nerf, the AC10 certainly did not need a nerf, and in fact I would say no weapon in the past year needed a nerf or it's firing mechanic changed to appease the unskilled non thinking player. This game just keeps getting dumbed down to make whiners happy instead of forcing them to improve and become better players.

Oh stop, there is very little skill currently involved in this game.

And the least skillful weapons are direct fire (PPC's and AC's).

So please just stop with that.

[Roadbeer]

It's not like the AC 40 didn't become the N00btube of MWO.
Closest thing the game had to an "I Win" button, if it wasn't for the need to strip it down to paper to carry enough ammo to accommodate the "Spray and Pray" 40pt Alpha.

Derp, click, "Damn, I missed"
Derp, click, "Damn, I missed"
Derp, click, BOOM, "I'm so ubah"

[Shredhead]

OneEyed Jack, on 09 January 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

These boards make me feel like Joe in Idiocracy. Can people really not see how this game is plunging into stupidity when people are actually complaining that AC5s are powerful? They haven't been significantly improved, people. If AC5s are considered some of the best weapons, it's only because everything else has already been nerfed into the dirt.

But please, keep bitching and moaning and whining for more nerfs..... or maybe just go play Hello Kitty: Island Adventure.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 10 January 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Oh stop, there is very little skill currently involved in this game.

And the least skillful weapons are direct fire (PPC's and AC's).

So please just stop with that.

Bullsh*t! The least skill is needed for LRMs, followed directly by streaks, then lasers. All weapons with direct damage are harder to use as you have to lead, adjust for bulletdrop etc pp. Do you even play this game?

[Roadbeer]

Shredhead, on 10 January 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

Bullsh*t! The least skill is needed for LRMs, followed directly by streaks, then lasers. All weapons with direct damage are harder to use as you have to lead, adjust for bulletdrop etc pp. Do you even play this game?

Nope.
Don't confuse ease of use with the ability to use them well.
Anyone can load up an AC 20 or gauss, a crapton of ammo and spray away thinking they have skill as they rip apart friend and foe alike. It could be argued that to be effective with LRMs require more skill because you have terrain mitigation to deal with, where with AC, you have your target in your sights.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Shredhead, on 10 January 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

Bullsh*t! The least skill is needed for LRMs, followed directly by streaks, then lasers. All weapons with direct damage are harder to use as you have to lead, adjust for bulletdrop etc pp. Do you even play this game?

Said by a poor shlub who doesn't understand the mechanics of the game.

Lets start with LRM's, first off indirect fire is TERRIBLE. The only way it works is against other terrible players. It requires you to stay in LOS with your reticle over the target if you are trying to do actual damage. Which means no torso twisting to defend yourself, nor can you hide while the LRM's are in flight.

Streaks are good against lights, ok against mediums, and do too little and very random damage to anything heavy or larger. Unless you are packing 6 of them, and even then you have much better weapon choices.

Lasers require WAY more skill than Autocannons, i'm not going to bother explaining why, if you don't know you are just...god.

Auto Cannons and PPC's are effectively put reticle over target, pull trigger. Worst case scenario is you don't hit the center torso and you hit right or left.

The only instance where these weapons require any modicum of skill is against good light pilots. And lets be honest, all it takes is one well placed alpha to shred the legs off a light mech.

One of the best parts of using direct fire, is once you pull the trigger you can immediately make defensive manuvers, whether it's twisting, jumping or moving back into cover.

Lasers and LRM's especially mean you have to hope your opponent is bad (no twisting) and you have to hold target during the burn/flight leaving you open to all kinds of reprisal.

This isn't a one on one game, so if you are shooting LRM's and waiting the 3-5 seconds for them to hit and do damage, you sure as hell better believe the guy you are shooting at has 2-3 buddies that are going to core you.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 10 January 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

So in the opinions of some it takes no skill to use the AC20, to use cover to close on a target, to use cover in between shots and to take the shot when you can? So you think standing in the open spraying away with your sustained fire weapons is more skill then to line up the shot to get the most out of your burst fire weapons? How daft are you?

Nicholas Carlyle, on 10 January 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Oh stop, there is very little skill currently involved in this game.

Because of the progression of constant nerfs and lack of imagination in the game. Because of poorly managed development in favor of trying to get a contract extension signed rather then focus on the game. Because they built the game on a broken weapons management design in the first place that allowed boating. The weapons aren't to blame for the lack of skill in this game. My group of friends try to be as strategic as possible and sometimes we get rewarded with pugs that can figure it out. Most of the time we get the COD guys or WOT guys who have no idea what flanking means, or how to defend a position, or any concept of cover, and choose to stand in the open and take fire while they spray with AC2/5's, missiles, and refuse to get behind something to avoid dying!

Nicholas Carlyle, on 10 January 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

And the least skillful weapons are direct fire (PPC's and AC's).

Bull, You have to know how to use cover, take a shot without getting shot, use your brain to maneuver for the best shot and to avoid the meta builds. I have no complaints about Missiles except them being annoying and having to get locks for the people incapable of doing it themselves, sorry I have a battle to fight and may not be putting your locks on my priority list so don't complain I'm not holding locks while I duke it out with another assault mech or 3.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

LRMs, Ballistics, and ECM are the rock paper scissors of MWO.

[Roadbeer]

Werewolf486, on 10 January 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

I have no complaints about Missiles except them being annoying and having to get locks for the people incapable of doing it themselves, sorry I have a battle to fight and may not be putting your locks on my priority list so don't complain I'm not holding locks while I duke it out with another assault mech or 3.

So you don't press R?
How do you know what to shoot at on your enemy to exploit their damage?

[Mystere]

Just reduce ammo quantities back to TT levels and have a great weekend.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Roadbeer, on 10 January 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

So you don't press R?
How do you know what to shoot at on your enemy to exploit their damage?

I press R, then I cycle to find the quickest kill and have missile boats complain about 'Hold Locks", sorry bud but I have to cycle targets to get on the one I want to kill. Then I use cover to avoid getting shot and loose the lock and have to endure the missile boat complaint that I'm not holding locks, sorry but I'm not going to stand out there and get wasted just to hold lock for you.

[Roadbeer]

Werewolf486, on 10 January 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

I press R, then I cycle to find the quickest kill and have missile boats complain about 'Hold Locks", sorry bud but I have to cycle targets to get on the one I want to kill. Then I use cover to avoid getting shot and loose the lock and have to endure the missile boat complaint that I'm not holding locks, sorry but I'm not going to stand out there and get wasted just to hold lock for you.

As long as you press R, it's all I need.
As far as the rest, well, bad players with every weapon class, don't know what to tell you.

[Damocles69]

The only reason balostics seem op... jump jets. More poineantly, one jump jet. The front loaded thrust gives mech more bang for their buck. Now the can house all the ammo, guns, and heat sinks they will ever need because of minimal flight investment. Make thrust porpotional to number of jets equipped and suddenly these mech have to make choices to take use the greatest ability of ACs and other ballistic based weapons, pinpoint snapshotability

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Why do people act like you need to be super sneaky and awesome to use an AC/20?

Even with the recent changes, it still has a much larger range than it should (which is why the AC/10 is worthless) and just requires knowing how to lead a shot.

It's not rocket science unless you are on a terrible computer or bad connection.

[Riptor]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2014 - 06:02 AM, said:

IF they were a FedCom drop, that is a good set up. True Davion's prefer AC 5s and 10s but the Lyran influence is on the rise in this time period. Would you complain of a unit that dropped in all Marauders? Even IF there are several Companies that are comprised of just that Mech.

There is one Merc Command that is dead now, but they were a Battalion of almost all Marauder IIs! This is not a bad thing, it is more like confirming how a Military WOULD deploy Mechs.

*facepalm*

No battletech military would ever use such a ******** getup.. you know why? Because in Battletech they would have to fight veehicles, infantry and airforces.

Also

a) AC/40 jeagers have nothing to do with fluff... no one ever fielded such rediculus machines in mass. Marauders where fairly balanced with short to long range firepower and thus very flexible, being able to face alot of situations.. you know.. like most other mechs during that time period.

The only reason AC/40 jaegers exist is because this is a dumped down arena shooter where you have to worry about nothing else but what happens in a time span of max 15 minutes.

c) The reason why its ab/used so much has absolutely NOTHING to do with fluff and if you really belief that it must be a davion drop influenced by steiner then you should stop smoking whatever you smoke that makes you think that the remaining player even give a smidget about lore.

[Xyroc]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 January 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

So how do you make basically a rifle difficult to use? I mean it only took a week on a rifle range to learn how to fire an M-16 with Iron sights and get my marksman badge. A ballistic weapon is just point and shoot. you cannot make it harder than that unless you want to add something like using a mirror over your shoulder to shoot a cigar out of the Atlas's mouth!

dont come in to another thread like YOU ALWAYS DO ... and make sense lol. Come on you know the ACs need the charge up feature ? RIght? lol ..