40 replies to this topic

[Airborne Thunder]

Top notch patch PGI. You "balance" game play by nerfing the AC20 and AC10 (presumably to lower the amount of AC40 Jager builds) but now all I see are AC5 Jager boats. When people QQ about those builds are you going to nerf AC5's? What’s left to nerf after that? Lasers? Then what, we are back to were we started?

[Chavette]

Don't worry, they'll break them soon too.

[Victor Morson]

Paul didn't get killed by an AC/5 so there wasn't a rush.

That AC/10 though.. *shakes fist*

Airborne Thunder, on 09 January 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

Then what, we are back to were we started?

Literally yes; they are nerfing everything backwards so much we're going to come full circle back to Gauss & PPC again, seriously.

[Appogee]

It's ironic. I would have said the AC5 was the premier weapon at this point, but instead the 20s and 10s got the nerf.

(10s were OP...? Really...?!)

[Sercher]

[Evil Ed]

You see a problem in XL-jagers low on ammo? Really?

Edited by Evil Ed, 10 January 2014 - 05:29 AM.

[LiGhtningFF13]

Hopefully they won't break the whole game.

[Foster Bondroff]

Quote

Literally yes; they are nerfing everything backwards so much we're going to come full circle back to Gauss & PPC again, seriously.

Not quite true. The gauss nerf per that funny completely unintuitive charge has broken the gauss on a much deeper level than any other weapon. So gauss currently is way out of the circle. I guess its needs two to three more go around until the gauss even with the charge will be usefull again.

Quote

Hopefully they won't break the whole game.

To late. Already done a while back. From what i see the game is on a road that could be discribed as "broken, more broken, most broken and epically broken"...

[Felbombling]

Forever adjusting weapon characteristics in search of weapon balance... and never once revisiting the core game mechanics that create the problems in the first place. I wonder why the core mechanics are so off limits... it is as if someone high up has a very stubborn vision of what should work and are hell-bent to make that round peg fit into that square hole.

[Corvus Antaka]

Dont worry.

No doubt Ac/5 is next in line for a nurf

Foster Bondroff, on 10 January 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

Not quite true. The gauss nerf per that funny completely unintuitive charge has broken the gauss on a much deeper level than any other weapon. So gauss currently is way out of the circle. I guess its needs two to three more go around until the gauss even with the charge will be usefull again.

I dont see this. even just running 1 gauss and 1 erppc is incredibly potent. Its just a higher skill cieling to use it effectively, and a solid challenge to learn to do so. once you do, the entire charge mechanic is hardly a hinderance anymore.

[Foster Bondroff]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 11 January 2014 - 10:30 PM, said:

I dont see this. even just running 1 gauss and 1 erppc is incredibly potent. Its just a higher skill cieling to use it effectively, and a solid challenge to learn to do so. once you do, the entire charge mechanic is hardly a hinderance anymore.

No it is not, not compared to the alternatives of PPCs+ACs with the directly delivered damage. A dual gauss can be fun, also 1 gauss + 1 ER PPC, but they are not competetive. I cannot even remember to have seen a 1 gauss + 1 PPC or ER PPC in any 12vs12 match. I have seen dual gauss, but those guys surely where steamrolled.

[Reno Blade]

Foster Bondroff, on 12 January 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

No it is not, not compared to the alternatives of PPCs+ACs with the directly delivered damage. A dual gauss can be fun, also 1 gauss + 1 ER PPC, but they are not competetive. I cannot even remember to have seen a 1 gauss + 1 PPC or ER PPC in any 12vs12 match. I have seen dual gauss, but those guys surely where steamrolled.

Thats the reason why the ACs were nerfed and (hopefully) the ACs (and PPCs) in general get nerfed a bit more.
To get the best weapon down to a "normal" level.
The only "Laser boat" you see in competitive games is 4ERLL Stalker. And that is still no real thread to a typical 2PPC 2UAC5 Highlander.

[ShinVector]

Airborne Thunder, on 09 January 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

Top notch patch PGI. You "balance" game play by nerfing the AC20 and AC10 (presumably to lower the amount of AC40 Jager builds) but now all I see are AC5 Jager boats. When people QQ about those builds are you going to nerf AC5's? What’s left to nerf after that? Lasers? Then what, we are back to were we started?

The funny thing is I had moved on the Gauss Jager as my favoured cheese build.
*But then again.. I have now put myself on haitus till we see some CW.. (Which might be never at this rate.. COUGH! DX11 COUGH !!)

[Corvus Antaka]

Foster Bondroff, on 12 January 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

No it is not, not compared to the alternatives of PPCs+ACs with the directly delivered damage. A dual gauss can be fun, also 1 gauss + 1 ER PPC, but they are not competetive. I cannot even remember to have seen a 1 gauss + 1 PPC or ER PPC in any 12vs12 match. I have seen dual gauss, but those guys surely where steamrolled.

that's only because the ac/5 and uac/5 and ac/10 are still allowing combined with a low 10 heat PPC 30 dmg alphas. 20 dmg is the sweet spot.

once those guns get nurfed, all shall be well in MWO land

oh, and maybe a skill thing. I havent had any trouble pulling 600-1200 dmg with ppc gauss builds myself.

[DEMAX51]

A reduction in projectile speed to what are supposed to be mid-to-close range weapons is barely a nerf. Put your pitchforks and torches away.

[ShinVector]

DEMAX51, on 12 January 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

A reduction in projectile speed to what are supposed to be mid-to-close range weapons is barely a nerf. Put your pitchforks and torches away.

If you have low ping/latency maybe.... I get the feeling it hurts people with high ping/latency more...
Probably why I like Guass a lot better now with those 2000m/s projectiles..

[Foster Bondroff]

Quote

Thats the reason why the ACs were nerfed and (hopefully) the ACs (and PPCs) in general get nerfed a bit more.

Quote

once those guns get nurfed, all shall be well in MWO land

Yeah spin the nerf wheel, round and round and round it goes, yet nothing is well in MWO land. How many more rounds it needs, till its realized, that they are actually spinning the wrong wheel?

Quote

oh, and maybe a skill thing. I havent had any trouble pulling 600-1200 dmg with ppc gauss builds myself.

In full mod 12vs12? If yes. I bow to your superior skills at the controls.
But honestly i doubt it. In PUG yes, in 12vs12 hardly. But PUG doesnt count, cause in PUGs everything can shine. I have made 3025 stock mechs shine in PUG drops, but based on that i would never argue they are balanced or any good for full mod 12vs12 game.


Do not understand me wrong, i am absolutly in favor of variety, but in my opinion PGI is following the wrong road in this regard. They mess around with weapons stats, while the problem lies much deeper.

Especially with the low farming pace, i see this as a real threat to new player aquisition. In the current meta it is far to easy to spent money and resources on the "wrong" mechs in terms of battlefield effectiveness.

What i see in MWO since almost a year now is what keeped me away from playing earlier MW titles online. A very limited number of viable chassis with an even more limited number of viable loadouts.

Its not the game or the "broken" promisses that keep me here. It's the 331st and most notable two guys from the german community that organize exellent tournaments and league games. Its there effort not that of the devs that holds up a little candle of hope.

I personally and most of the 331st as far as i can say don't like to play cheese. If its needed, we can and we do very well in it. Do we like it? No! Pure boredom.

And so i can only appeal: Leave this road. Stop spinning this wheel! It has and will only result in a different kind of cheese for the time being.

Edited by Foster Bondroff, 12 January 2014 - 11:20 PM.

[Reno Blade]

The best league /CW system does not help, if the only "choice" you have is "meta builds".
I see the "nerfing" to bee as "not enough". People demand "subtle changes", but that does only work so much.
If gameplay wouldn't be so "unbalanced" towards meta, the random games would stay more interesting for much longer, imho.
How do you think new players see the game when all they see is their 50 damage when the meta mechs rack up 5 kills?

[Smitti]

StaggerCheck, on 11 January 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

it is as if someone high up has a very stubborn vision of what should work and are hell-bent to make that round peg fit into that square hole.

It can be done, just find a bigger hammer.

Oh wait, they'd nerf that too

I really haven't noticed a difference in how the AC/10 conducts it's business, it still does what it says on the tin.

Can't speak for the AC/20 however, i don't really use them (wont fit on the majority of mechs i own).

I wholeheartedly agree though, they need to stop this cycle and look and the underlying issues and fix them first...

[Foster Bondroff]

Quote

People demand "subtle changes"

Not me. I don't want subtle changes. I want a radical revamp of both aiming and the heat system.

Get rid of instant pin point accuracy and make convergence matter. Get rid of the arbitray ghost heat and the two different kind of DHS system to something in the direction of less capacity but higher dissipation.

Will that happen. My guess is no, cause someone up the chain seems to hang on to those flawed concepts as they are implemented currently.