49 replies to this topic

[Damian Frost]

I agree with you Kjudoon this actually needs to be stickied. Not only do they get the advantage of target info the entire team benefits from targeting as it has been stated above. We all started out as pugs and learned that teamwork is extremely relevant in this game, but it seems that now puggers are wanting to claim kills for themselves by not targeting and not sharing information, well in the final scoring at the end of matches you get more for assists than you do for kills by being a team player.

[sneeking]

+1 to the snee for generating some rants, but...

if this goes stickie id like to be allowed to remove myself ( im not that dedicated of a troll )

[Rushin Roulette]

If you have weapons with multiple ranges, then you can also use multiple targeting.

For example if you are using LRMs and Medium Lasers as backup, then you can target a mech close to you long enough to get the updated paperdoll which shows you the damaged component areas and then you can target and hold a mech further away for LRMs.

This way you can carry on shooting the LRMs on lock while shooting a target closer to you at the same time as you know where to aim your lasers in the mean time while the LRMs are in flight.

Many long range snipers or LRM players can often only concentrate on one target... the actual target or the circling light. Any Sniper/LRM supporter will have lost the moment the light has managed to break the lock from his intended target and freed his teammate from incoming fire.

EDIT: @sneeking... from one troll to another. It is bad form to troll new players or helpful threads/tutorials. Its like taking sweets from a toddler... doesnt really make you look tough or macho at all . However, trolling experienced players or the community as a whole is a hunting trophy worthy of a successful troll.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 13 January 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[sneeking]

but I am a newbish ( sort of, still ) player

only a newb would jump from the top floor hpg manifold all the way to basment level in an ac20 yenlow to shoot a phract in the face right ?

Edited by sneeking, 13 January 2014 - 04:05 AM.

[DodgerH2O]

@sneeking: Trolling or not, I have specifically heard that opinion given out on at least two occasions. The first time was a player who managed 3 kills and over 600 damage without using any active Targeting at all. The player was not a bad player, but had the opinion that because he had no missiles there was no reason to Target opponents. As I said, I created this thread in response to such opinions and spectating of dozens of players who would have known about weak spots had they just Targeted the mech they were shooting at.

So what I'm trying to say is that your trolling may have served a function by putting the statement out there where people could respond. I believe you can Edit your own posts if you decide to remove them, but posts that are quoting you can only be changed by their authors or a moderator.

[Rushin Roulette]

The thing is that even if you are not using missile weapons, you still want to target the opponent you are shooting. That guy with 3 kills and 600 damage may have had a good result, but it just shows that he did too much damage for those 3 kills. Had he been using the targeting function, then he would have known exactly where to shoot so that he could get the kills more efficiently.

Its the difference between randomly shooting at the opponent in general or specifically targeting one open and damaged section to take out specific weapon systems, the XL reactor or open legs. Ive often seen the legs of opponents with deep red internals only to see people still targeting the torso which had loads of armour left.

[SirSpoony]

BP Raven, on 11 January 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

Depending on how your hand sits on your keybaord, i would reccomend binding the key that is closest to your thumb as target (probably space bar, or maybe left alt) and tapping it instinctivley every time you hear that little sensor bleep of a new contact.

Try to build up a mental image of the enemy mechs, and remember any pertinent info on possoble weak spots. If i target a mech that i'm pretty sure has an XL engine and it has a weak side torso, i can make an educated guess as to where to shoot a mech of the same configuration even if i don't have a target lock the next time i get a shot. I've get kills from snap shots like this quite often.

If you have a LRM support boat, then they will likely fire on whatever they see on their sensors, so a mech that is lit up for longest will get the most rain. If you're a brawler then mainatining a solid lock on your primary target will benefit you as it will be taking physical damage, and be psycing out the pilot as he's hearing the incoming missle warning all the time.

Bottom line: If you're not targetting the enemy, you're just a target.

Left alt huh? done

[wanderer]

Rushin Roulette, on 15 January 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

Its the difference between randomly shooting at the opponent in general or specifically targeting one open and damaged section to take out specific weapon systems, the XL reactor or open legs. Ive often seen the legs of opponents with deep red internals only to see people still targeting the torso which had loads of armour left.

This. R-targeting lets you aim for the weak points, especially on previously damaged targets. I spectate many a game watching people cheerfully ignoring weak legs, sections with half the weapons being a single hit away from junk as the damage paperdoll shows them gleefully focusing on the almost undamaged CT.

Then they go down like chumps. I'm fond of wading into fights with an AC/20 Ilya, so I don't usually get there first.

Everything gets R-targeted. That scout with the bum leg circling around? Burn it off first. Hunchback popping off shots with the armor mostly stripped off? Blam, AC/20 says "hump less" Quick laser scrape across the legs on that LRM boat shows he skimped there? Someone's getting double-legged to death. R-targeting means you spot the weak prey, eliminate it, and get MORE kills and component-destruction done faster, push the snowball down the hill quicker, and win.

I've been known to end up with 4 kills (everyone one with a "saviour kill" bonus) at under 150 damage that way, just by disabling targets of opportunity. Without using R-target, you miss these targets and are a worse pilot because of it, one who's wasting the armor and firepower of your team by wasting time killing the hard way. Often enough, it's an assist as much as a kill, but that's the point. The pilot who preserves his team and focuses his fire most efficiently is the best pilot in a firefight.

[badkilik]

Simply put, ****** players will be ****** players and you cant expect them to press "R" because that extra calorie they're gonna burn is asking too much of them. These are the players calling me out for running a broken spider when they dont know why I'm chewing off their legs with machine guns. Bunch of lazy crybabies if you ask me.

[Abivard]

Please Pin this.

[olpOmat3000]

DodgerH2O, on 10 January 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

Targeting Basics:
An enemy who is not targeted has a hollow red triangle above their mech. This means that YOU have line of sight and that the enemy mech is within your sensor range. YOU can see the mech on your minimap, as can any of your allied mechs who ALSO have line of sight on the enemy and sensors with sufficient range.

An enemy who is Targeted has a solid red triangle above their mech. ALL FRIENDLY MECHS can see a Targeted enemy on their minimap and HUD. In addition, any mech who is currently Targeting that mech will acquire in a short time a readout of the enemy mech's loadout and damage readout ("Paperdoll").

You can Target any mech who has a hollow red triangle (within your line of sight), or any mech that one or more of your allies have targeted (mechs with solid red triangles). If a Targeted mech leaves line of sight or moves out of your sensor range, you will lose Targeting after a brief time interval.

You got one crucial detail wrong:
Every mech your sensors pick up (e.g. in line of sight and in sensor range), no matter if targeted or not will show up on everyones minimap. There is no need to target an enemy mech to pass on the spotting.

Just check in your next game - there will be hollow triangles (meaning untargeted mechs) way out of your sensor range and LOS.


Hope I could help clarify things.

Edited by olpOmatEOOO, 18 January 2014 - 10:21 AM.

[DodgerH2O]

olpOmatEOOO, on 18 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

You got one crucial detail wrong:
Every mech your sensors pick up (e.g. in line of sight and in sensor range), no matter if targeted or not will show up on everyones minimap. There is no need to target an enemy mech to pass on the spotting.

Just check in your next game - there will be hollow triangles (meaning untargeted mechs) way out of your sensor range and LOS.


Hope I could help clarify things.

Nope. This is a very common misconception, however it doesn't work that way, sorry. I can double (triple, quadruple or more really) check it but if what you're saying is true I would never have the issue of turning a corner and finding out my buddy who seemed to be fighting only one mech was actually fighting five, as I'd see 4 extra hollow triangles around that corner and/or 4 extra on my minimap. You can also check this easily while spectating. Switch from a light/scouting mech to a different teammate and compare what each one sees on their HUD and minimap.

Edited by DodgerH2O, 18 January 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[Darth Futuza]

As a note, since I don't think its been said yet, PPC's can also temporarily disabled enemy ECM for a few moments, even if you miss and hit the ground around them. Sustained fire of PPC will keep it turned off permanently (and probably shred their mech to bits as well).

[Kjudoon]

PPCs knock out ECM for 1 second. After that, it's all target decay. Enough time to get a lock and quickly lose it with missiles in flight.

[olpOmat3000]

DodgerH2O, on 18 January 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Nope. This is a very common misconception, however it doesn't work that way, sorry. I can double (triple, quadruple or more really) check it but if what you're saying is true I would never have the issue of turning a corner and finding out my buddy who seemed to be fighting only one mech was actually fighting five, as I'd see 4 extra hollow triangles around that corner and/or 4 extra on my minimap. You can also check this easily while spectating. Switch from a light/scouting mech to a different teammate and compare what each one sees on their HUD and minimap.

AFIAK this happens only when you stumble into guys cloaked by ECM and you just happen to be close enough (less than 180m I think) to get sensor readings while your team mate is farther out. But I don't want to ruin your thread with a lengthy off-topic discussion. Maybe we could find out in a new thread dedicated to this question?

Anyway I really like your thread for giving out reasonable advice to new guys!

[Pyrrho]

olpOmatEOOO, on 18 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

You got one crucial detail wrong:
Every mech your sensors pick up (e.g. in line of sight and in sensor range), no matter if targeted or not will show up on everyones minimap. There is no need to target an enemy mech to pass on the spotting.

Just check in your next game - there will be hollow triangles (meaning untargeted mechs) way out of your sensor range and LOS.

Hope I could help clarify things.

I am pretty sure you are right, as I am one who targets hollow triangles from the enemy base (way out of LOS) to get an idea for what enemies I can rush into and possibly take out. As long as someone has line of sight (and the enemy is not covered by ECM) there will be a hollow triangle.

Further consideration: those guys who spam the targeting key in hopes of alerting the team to a cluster of bad guys? When they are looking at the enemy, there will be many hollow triangles on the HUD, but as he cycles through targets only ONE (the currently targeted one) will show on the team's MINI-MAP.

**since posting this, I have not noticed any hollow triangles on 'mechs that I did not have LOS on. It is possible in my experiences that the hollow triangles were presented because of a UAV being deployed.

Edited by Pyrrho, 19 January 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[DodgerH2O]

olpOmatEOOO, on 19 January 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

AFIAK this happens only when you stumble into guys cloaked by ECM and you just happen to be close enough (less than 180m I think) to get sensor readings while your team mate is farther out. But I don't want to ruin your thread with a lengthy off-topic discussion. Maybe we could find out in a new thread dedicated to this question?

Anyway I really like your thread for giving out reasonable advice to new guys!

Since you brought it up I've played, spectated, and watched several twitch.tv streams and NEVER have I seen a hollow triangle appear on a player's HUD without that specific player having line of sight. Likewise with the minimap icons. ONLY mechs in the player's line of sight or Targeted by friendly mechs show up on a given player's minimap. (The notable exceptions being UAV detected enemy mechs and Seismic Sensor signatures.) Your scout may see 8 mechs but can only Target one at a time and only the location of the one Targeted is shared with teammates. If you are experiencing something different then please share with the rest of us. A screenshot or (preferably) video would be nice evidence.

Edited by DodgerH2O, 21 January 2014 - 09:06 PM.

[olpOmat3000]

Hey Dodger!
I re-checked some of my recorded videos, and you are right.
As long as an enemy mech isn't locked, it isn't visible to friendlys who have no LOS.
Even after half a year of playing MWO I still learn such crucial things.

Thanks man!


So to avoid misunderstandings and for everyone to remember: ALWAYS LOCK ENEMYS!

[Alaskan Nobody]

olpOmatEOOO, on 22 January 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

So to avoid misunderstandings and for everyone to remember: ALWAYS LOCK ENEMYS!

Quoting this so it doesn't get forgotten!

[DodgerH2O]

Edited original post for new NARC mechanics.