55 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

Nikkoru, on 12 January 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

You are grasping at straws, here. We both know the scenario you describe is extremely rare. 99% of comments from dead people involve complaining about how much their team sucked.

No not really, especially in premades. I've been playing this game since march of 2013, so not very long, but I can safely say that plenty of matches were won because of comments.

Keep in mind this is a team game, thus the design is going to force you into playing with a team, you can always drop solo, and if you do, then by all means you can disconnect, lose out on maybe 2% of your rewards and start another match with another mech.

Again, comments aren't always trash talking, I have witnessed it in at least 70% of my matches, where comments saved the day.

Seriously, play with a group, and the more you play the higher your elo will get, where you will run into people who use comments for helping the team. That's pretty much what people I play with do, and my elo is {Scrap}. (no, not being falsely humble, my elo really is {Scrap})

if you're just flying solo, and you're not interested in re-using the mech (because it will be locked until match ends) you're not gonna care about losing 2000 C-Bills. I average out about 100-120K C-bills per match (unless it's my BLR-1S then it's a heck of a lot more) and when I'm just farming for C-Bills, I can rake in half a mill within 4-5 drops, what I end up missing usually ends up being around 4-8K C-Bills, that's barely enough to get you 2 or 3 Standard Heat Sinks, After 4-5 drops, and that's IF I lose out on C-Bills.

EDIT: added the last paragraph.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 13 January 2014 - 01:37 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

You don't have to wait for the others to finish the match, if you survive longer in the first place.

[Kotzi]

How do you people know that you dont get the full amount by leaving earlier? Any official statements?

[Pat Kell]

And just because we disagree with you doesn't mean we are wrong or suffering from stock home syndrome....that would imply being held hostage, which you are not, you can leave the game at any time you want to. It has been pointed out that by leaving the game as soon as you die and running a new match will result in more c-bills but you won't get your full reward (won't get assists) by doing this. And lets not forget that what you call a flawed mechanic is most likely a result of PGI trying to maintain some sort of economy balance as well as guarding against farmers. Also...it's not your game, you didn't make it so you don't get to set the rules. You can complain if you like, but I think we have much more to be concerned about it this game than the POSSIBLE few thousand c-bills you miss out on if you leave early.

[IraqiWalker]

Kotzi, on 13 January 2014 - 01:50 AM, said:

How do you people know that you dont get the full amount by leaving earlier? Any official statements?

I believe so, it was a loooooooooong time ago now. This was implemented to prevent people from running into the enemy team, tagging them all with one or two laser hits and suiciding, and STILL get full rewards. So as long as you don't disconnect you get the assist rewards.

[RG Notch]

Nikkoru, on 12 January 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

Here's the way I look at it.

When I choose to play MWO, I am using my time. It is my chioce. It is not a waste.

If I choose to sit and watch the rest of a match after I die, that is not a waste, because it is my choice.

However, when the game design forces me to sit and wait to get full points, THAT is wasting my time.

You keep saying forced, I don't think that word means what you think it means. If you stay you are rewarded a bonus for people who finish off mechs you damaged. You get everything you earned up until you leave. No one is forcing you to do anything. People have even pointed out that you will probably earn more if you leave after an early death and play another match. Plus you won't be bored watching. Plus it discourages people from racing around shooting every mech once and dying and repeating to farm c bills and XP.
So stick to your strawman about being forced and telling anyone who disagrees is obviously suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

[Julian Langsdorf III]

Reading this thread elicited a "holy &$#@!" reaction from me. I had no idea that you didn't full credit for everything if you left after you died (but before the match ends).

In other games I play, like World of Tanks, leaving early affects nothing. You get the fully tally, damage done, kills, assists, etc, when the match is over.

I never even considered the possibility that MWO might do it differently. It boggles my mind to think about how many C-Bills and XP I've missed out on.

This is not a statement for or against the way the game is handled. Just wish I had known sooner. Granted, I've been away from this game for quite a while and only returned recently. So I'm a little behind on things.

Edited by Julian Langsdorf III, 14 January 2014 - 09:57 AM.

[Kotzi]

Well actually there is no proof that this is the case yet.

[warner2]

I didn't know this either, if that's the case. It does sound wrong, possibly accidental rather than by design. If I assisted a kill I should get an assist, whether I'm alive or dead, and the distinction between dead and connected to the game and dead and disconnected is entirely moot.

[Zerberus]

IraqiWalker, on 12 January 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

You really aren't paying attention to some of the finer details.

Helping out your team, which is your ONLY job in this game doesn't end when you die. Chat, and spectating the game can turn the tide of a fight because someone noticed that the enemy atlas is running a heavy build that needs an XL engine and his left visual side torso is fully exposed. instead of wasting three alphas on the CT and dying, your last remaining teammate sees your message informing him of that piece of information, and fires one salvo into the side torso you designated killing the atlas instantly and winning the game.

If you didn't do the chat here's what happens. Your teammate would have to lock on to the atlas, wait the full 3+ seconds it takes for the diagnosis system to give him a mapout of the enemy mech to find the weak spot WHILE under enemy fire. That might be too long of a time for him to survive against that atlas.

Thus your contribution, after you had died 8 minutes ago, wins your team the game. THAT's when your work is done. Not before.

Ironically, this is also part of the reason "evil premades" are "evil".... when you drop in a group of 4 and one dies, that person will (or at least should) be using the spectator mode to enhance the team`s situational awareness, be it by calling out a radar contact that a teammate may have just missed, or by alerting them that the jenner at kappa is about to die to a wolfpack, "bridging" comunication between TS and chat,or, or, or... More often than not, that person winds up playing a more pivotal role than any pilot.

As I`ve stated in the past, as soon as you start thinking about yourself instead of the team and the win at any time in the game you start losing.

Edited by Zerberus, 14 January 2014 - 10:50 AM.

[dragnier1]

When i started playing mwo all the players were mixed together. It was really beneficial to watch the good players in action.

These days, if you're grouped in low elo like me, it's frustrating watching the rest make the same mistake i did.

Zerberus, on 14 January 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Ironically, this is also part of the reason "evil premades" are "evil".... when you drop in a group of 4 and one dies, that person will (or at least should) be using the spectator mode to enhance the team`s situational awareness, be it by calling out a radar contact that a teammate may have just missed, or by alerting them that the jenner at kappa is about to die to a wolfpack, "bridging" comunication between TS and chat,or, or, or... More often than not, that person winds up playing a more pivotal role than any pilot.

I do that sometimes and i pug

Edited by dragnier1, 14 January 2014 - 10:56 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

warner2, on 14 January 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

I didn't know this either, if that's the case. It does sound wrong, possibly accidental rather than by design. If I assisted a kill I should get an assist, whether I'm alive or dead, and the distinction between dead and connected to the game and dead and disconnected is entirely moot.

Not a mistake by design, as we mentioned previously, the old model was that you got full rewards for everything. A massive chunk of the player base begged PGI to change that because we ran into thee suicide and disco (for disconnect) epidemics. The most frustrating experience is watching your front line perfectly shiny and powerful atlas charge the enemy team without slowing down just so he can tag all of them, die and then disconnect within 20 (more like 50 to be realistic) seconds. The whole game just goes sour after that, and the experience is ruined for everyone involved. One of my friends quit playing MW:O until they fixed that by adding the fix we mentioned.

Also, for the bazillionth time. What you lose from disconnecting is insignificant. Especially when to comes to XP. Losing out on 2-5 GXP is below negligible. As far as mech XP goes, losing 800 XP (which is damn near impossible, unless you dealt over 900 damage and got no kills, and disconnected before any of your teammates finished off the people you hit) is also negligible. One or two more drops and you've already made over 1k in XP back. Now if you're dying every single match within 25 seconds, then I can see why you'd want every scrap of XP,Although, if you die that often, that early, you're not really losing our on XP.


EDIT: Added last paragraph

Edited by IraqiWalker, 14 January 2014 - 01:31 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Nikkoru, on 12 January 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

If you ever get tired of beating the snot out of that strawman you just created, and want to join the actual conversation, let me know.

Sorry, but that fails. On many levels. I asked you a question, which you failed to respond to appropriately. I didn't advance an argument opposing what you said.

So if you don't want to explain the logic of your statement, that's fine. But don't turn it around on me with words and concepts you don't understand.

[warner2]

IraqiWalker, on 14 January 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Not a mistake by design, as we mentioned previously, the old model was that you got full rewards for everything. A massive chunk of the player base begged PGI to change that because we ran into thee suicide and disco (for disconnect) epidemics. The most frustrating experience is watching your front line perfectly shiny and powerful atlas charge the enemy team without slowing down just so he can tag all of them, die and then disconnect within 20 (more like 50 to be realistic) seconds. The whole game just goes sour after that, and the experience is ruined for everyone involved. One of my friends quit playing MW:O until they fixed that by adding the fix we mentioned.

Also, for the bazillionth time. What you lose from disconnecting is insignificant. Especially when to comes to XP. Losing out on 2-5 GXP is below negligible. As far as mech XP goes, losing 800 XP (which is damn near impossible, unless you dealt over 900 damage and got no kills, and disconnected before any of your teammates finished off the people you hit) is also negligible. One or two more drops and you've already made over 1k in XP back. Now if you're dying every single match within 25 seconds, then I can see why you'd want every scrap of XP,Although, if you die that often, that early, you're not really losing our on XP.


EDIT: Added last paragraph

OK, fine, but if "What you lose from disconnecting is insignificant" then how is that an incentive to stay connected after dying? There's a contradiction there. If that's the case then it doesn't help the suicide and disco problem. What I think helped the suicide and disco problem the most was you're mech staying in-game until the game finished?

Edited by warner2, 14 January 2014 - 04:14 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

warner2, on 14 January 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

OK, fine, but if "What you lose from disconnecting is insignificant" then how is that an incentive to stay connected after dying? There's a contradiction there. If that's the case then it doesn't help the suicide and disco problem. What I think helped the suicide and disco problem the most was you're mech staying in-game until the game finished?

The point is not to keep normal players in game, or even the *******. It's to reduce the reasons to pull a suicide discon. If all you do is a few points of damage, then all you get is the win/loss rewards. Nothing else. Not saying no one does it, but there is less reason to do so now.

So less reward, same risk. Whereas if you play normally, then when you die you can choose to hang around for extra rewards or leave with no penalty.

In short, it's not a perfect solution, it's designed to lessen the problem. Report any disco you think might be suspicious. If they see a pattern, they will take action.

[IraqiWalker]

warner2, on 14 January 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

OK, fine, but if "What you lose from disconnecting is insignificant" then how is that an incentive to stay connected after dying? There's a contradiction there. If that's the case then it doesn't help the suicide and disco problem. What I think helped the suicide and disco problem the most was you're mech staying in-game until the game finished?

If you rush, tag and get no kills or assists, and disconnect, you get no rewards, just the win or loss rewards. Which means you lock your game for possibly 10 minutes while getting almost diddly. On the other hand, if you played the match ,dealt damage, and gotten kills/assists, you can disconnect, still make a good bundle, and switch mechs to get into another match to farm C-Bills faster.