17 replies to this topic

[Grim Howler]

Hello! I'm very new to the game, Playing with the trials I think I like the lights for right now.

I went ahead and bought myself a spider 5K ( The one with two machine guns, and a medium laser. )

I feel that this unit is super under powered only used for capping and scouting. I was wondering, if at all possible I were able to upgrade it and maybe give it a bit more of a punch.

I've already given it Endo structure and Fibros armor, I gave it AMS and another machine gun. ( AMS because I had problems with people with missles were murdering me every five seconds. )

Also I feel like I'm moving pretty slow Only 130KPH Any sort of new load out or ideas would help me a lot.

I look forward to playing with some of you.

[Oppresor]

Hi Grim. In many ways you are right, I personally believe the spider is at its best in the Recon / Spotter role; have a look at my entries in this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...e-vs-artillery/ .

In answer to your question though, yes it is possible to give the Spider a lot more punch, the only snag is that it comes at a price; almost certainly in terms of having almost no armour. During the development phase of MWO (That we are not allowed to talk about) I witnessed a one on one battle between a Spider and a Jenner (As you will find out as you go along, the Jenner is probably the most feared unit out there) in which the Spider took the Jenner apart. The Guy or Gal in the Spider was one of the best pilots I have ever seen in action, running and flying all over the place, however it was the weapon system that stunned me; the Spider was carrying a PPC. This means that it must be possible to fit one some how.

As for the speed, don't worry there's nothing wrong with your 5K, 130 is it at the moment. Later on we will be getting a thing called MASC which will make it a lot faster but again at a cost see this link: http://www.google.co....59026428,d.bGQ

All Spiders are Hero's
.

[FireSlade]

Grim Howler, on 12 January 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Hello! I'm very new to the game, Playing with the trials I think I like the lights for right now.

I went ahead and bought myself a spider 5K ( The one with two machine guns, and a medium laser. )

I feel that this unit is super under powered only used for capping and scouting. I was wondering, if at all possible I were able to upgrade it and maybe give it a bit more of a punch.

I've already given it Endo structure and Fibros armor, I gave it AMS and another machine gun. ( AMS because I had problems with people with missles were murdering me every five seconds. )

Also I feel like I'm moving pretty slow Only 130KPH Any sort of new load out or ideas would help me a lot.

I look forward to playing with some of you.

Unfortunately PGI did not explain things much, but in Battletech and MWO lights have the least amount of firepower but the most speed and maneuverability, as you go up in weight classes (Lights, Mediums, Heavies, Assaults) you gain more armor and firepower at the cost of speed and maneuverability. A good site for you to check out and allow you to play with builds without paying any money/cbills is http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/. As to moving faster the only things that help is on non trial mechs you can gain pilot skills for each mech once you own 3 of the same mech (different variants) you can go further into the elite tree and gain what is called "speed tweak" which boosts you speed by 10% so 130kph becomes (130*1.1=143) 143kph. Another way to go faster is to put a bigger engine into you mech to allow your mech to go faster. A common design for your 5K is this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8c04ee7f1fabb9f this is basically the 5K©. Good luck and good hunting.

Edited by FireSlade, 12 January 2014 - 01:53 PM.

[Grim Howler]

Opressor - Thanks alot, Although usually no one listens to Recon, so I usually Cap or try to cap haha. I was wondering if I should drop two of the jj and maybe try and pawn off my pachine guns to pick up an AC-2 or maybe drop the AMS and try for like... an AC-5 or maybe a large laser.

FireSlade - Thats what I was thinking, I kinda figured thats how each weight class's roll would go. But I've read about FrankenMechs and what not so I wanted to see if anyone had some sort of weird varient of the Spider which could actually deal some damage. The way it is now, its almost useless. Especially for non-clan playing. I just kinda get caught in the open, shoot a few missles fire off a laser and waste like 400 rounds in my machine guns. Then I'm done.

Edited by Grim Howler, 12 January 2014 - 01:58 PM.

[FireSlade]

Grim Howler, on 12 January 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

Thanks alot, Although usually no one listens to Recon, so I usually Cap or try to cap haha. I was wondering if I should drop two of the jj and maybe try and pawn off my pachine guns to pick up an AC-2 or maybe drop the AMS and try for like... an AC-5 or maybe a large laser.

Start saving for a Ferro armor, Endo Steel internals, Double Heat Sinks, and a 255XL engine should cost you 6,115,000 cbills then you can drop 4 (so that you have 2 jump jets) JJs and add max armor, 2tons MG ammo, 2 (total of 4) machine guns, and 1 ER Large Laser. It will take a bit and lots of patience but you will be feared out there once you gain the skills needed to pilot it correctly. Just use the link in my last post as a blue print.

[Oppresor]

Hi Grim. I have recently given up trying to use the TAG which in theory would give you more bonus points as long as people actually fired on the targets or at least in the direction of the target it is being used to designate. In it's place I have fitted a Small Pulse Laser, this supplements the two MG Arrays fitted to one of my arms. This has definitely improved things a bit.

If you can get AC2's on your Spider, they will be really effective because of the rate of fire; however, don't give up your AMS for them, you already know why.

[zagibu]

The very light mechs really need XL engines to fit any kind of useful weapon loadouts on them. The best you can do with the standard engine you got is probably 3-4 MGs and a small laser. With this, only target mechs that are already quite damaged. Facehug them and target weakspots.

[Grim Howler]

FireSlade - Yea I've already got the Endo structure and the Ferros armor. And I planned on getting a XL at some point but ran out of cash.

Opressor - I've never really understood on how exactly those types of devices worked so I didn't waste any of my hardpoints for them and instead put weapons if I could.

Zagibu - Thanks for the advice about the whole face hugging I'm assuming thats where you fly and hit their face and block their view.

Another question is other than more speed what do bigger engines provide do I get more tonnage to play with or does all the current weapons I have decrease in weight or something? How exactly does that work?

[Oppresor]

Hi Grim. Just did a bit of experimentation. I have ditched the 240 engine and changed it for the 245; it's taken my top speed up to 132.5 so the upgrade has a minimal return + needed to fit another heatsink which meant tacking off 1 x MG Array and a Jumpjet to allow for tonnage. Bearing in mind that I run my 5K as Recon, this may be worth the trade off; this is only because I class my Artillery Module as my Primary weapon.

[Kubernetes]

Heh, if you can fit an AC2 in there, do it. As a driver of primarily heavies and assaults, nothing is more frustrating than a light harasser with an AC. You can shrug off a few ERLL hits, but you can't ignore an AC chewing up your back armor. I've seen some fantastic PPC-wielding lights too, although heat management is dicey.

[Airu]

regarding ACs on spider, it is not efficient, but I used to fool around with this build, its good for distracting enemies when u strike from the back, some of them think some heavier mech flanked them
SDR-5K

[zagibu]

Grim Howler, on 12 January 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Zagibu - Thanks for the advice about the whole face hugging I'm assuming thats where you fly and hit their face and block their view.

Another question is other than more speed what do bigger engines provide do I get more tonnage to play with or does all the current weapons I have decrease in weight or something? How exactly does that work?

Face hugging just means you should go in very close, so close that big assault mechs can't even see you anymore, because you are standing so low from their point of view. Also, the closer you are, the easier to circle. If you see a mech with badly damaged rear armor, you should always go for it. I wouldn't actually fly in front of their face, if you are close, because torso weapons might hit you, then. If you stick around their legs, only arm weapons will be able to hit you.

There are two engine classes, normal, and xl. In any one class,bigger means faster, better turning, etc., but also heavier. XL engines of the same rating are much lighter than standard engines, but they need 6 more slots (three in each shoulder). Since you are rarely slot-bound in a light mech, XL engines are usually recommended. One drawback they have is you get killed if you lose either the left or right torso, same as if you would lose the center torso with any engine.

In addition to that, engine rating also means how many internal heatsinks you get. A 250 or bigger always has 10, and for each 25 rating more, you get a slot in the engine, where you can fit a heatsink without it taking up any slots in the mech. For each 25 ratin less than 250, you lose 1 internal heatsink, and have to fit 1 external, to get the 10 you need at minimum (you can't play the mech if it has less than 10 heatsinks).

All that said you should probably have picked another mech. The SDR-5K is very hard to pilot successfully.

Edited by zagibu, 12 January 2014 - 03:12 PM.

[RickySpanish]

I'd forget upgrading the Spider 5K (don't sell it mind, you will get next to nothing back) and save up for a Jenner OP, they are almost as fast and pack way more punch. Once you are comfortable piloting lights you could return to the 5K, but honestly and despite what people might tell you, it's one of the worst Mechs in the game. This is because the 5K has 4 ballistic hardpoints that can only realistically be filled with machine guns, which only deal respectable damage when the target has lost their armour.

If you are bent on sticking with the Spider chassis, get the 5D asap; this chassis mounts ECM which will prevent missile lock and hide you and your friends from radar, it also has more energy mounts that allow you to equip weapons more suited to a light Mech, such as a large laser, ER PPC or an array of medium lasers.

[Grim Howler]

Thanks for the advice I'll have to consider it. Sucks I bought it first haha. This is the second mech I've gone through I had the blackjack orginially but I kept dying the first time I got into a fire fight.

[Why Run]

No one listens to recon mechs because the mechanics are broken. A recon mech should be able to give locations to the rest of the team for every mech it can see. Not the case. Further, it should be able to designate targets without overly weighty or expensive gadgets. As it stands, without much by way of indirect fire, unless you really use the max modules for target retention and get extra close, recon is pointless.

[zagibu]

You should checkout a medium mech, or maybe save up for a heavy or assault.

If you wanna go medium, Hunchbacks are the most versatile IMO, they can do ballistics, laser boats, even quite decent LRM platforms (for a medium). The only thing they lack is jump jets. Centurions or Shadowhawks should also give you pretty good results.

If you wanna check out a heavy, I suggest Jagermechs or Cataphracts. For Assaults, try a Victor, Stalker (although this is basically the exact opposite of the spider) or Highlander.

There is this thread, but it hasn't been updated with the latest mechs: http://mwomercs.com/...w-of-all-mechs/

[WildmouseX]

recon isn't pointless, I've had many times where I was calling out the enemy movements in the chat and my team was able to position on them with great effect... the 2 hardest things to learn with the spider for me were patience and running through enemy lines.

first off is the waiting, regardless of weather the team is listening to your recon calls or not, sooner or later there will be a fight, stay out of sight but get in close enough behind them without being seen so that you can jump in once the fighting starts - but wait for that fight to actually start - once your targets have your teammates locked on you kinda get a free pass or two since no one is paying attention to you. - if you (or someone else) are able to get close enough to get a lock for your LRM's, you can take pot shots at the rear armor when the missiles hit and not be noticed.

the second thing that helped me was learning to run through their lines and weave in between enemy mechs like mad - don't focus on one mech, but take pot shots at anyone that ends up in your cross hairs. never stop running either, do unpredictable zig/zags so it's harder for them to lead their shots on you.. weaving in between enemy mech increases the chances of them hitting their teammates instead of you, which in turn ends up dealing damage in an indirect way. I once got a team to drop their own atlas because they missed me and clobbered him in his lightly armored rear (which I already did a good amount of damage too). if you are taking hits, or pick up an enemy light on your tail - just turn and run into your lines to regroup - with the spider you are looking for assists more then kills. i generally average 7-10 assists with mine, and 1-2 kills every few matches.

oh - and on assault or conquest - focus on capping points behind their lines once the frenzy starts - either they ignore you and you win - or some of them turn to come after you and you succeed in splitting up the group for your teammates to fight... faking caps is a good tactic to use as well. I currently have the 5D, but I am getting ready to buy the others so I can max out the skill trees - here are a couple of the ideas that i'm currently kicking around for the 5k. please note that I am still new to this game (though not to battletech), and there are probably people who have tried builds like these who will have more experienced input on them - my plan is to trial and error, you learn more that way.

dual ac2's - http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ae2f2f366047cfe
chain firing them will cause good screen shake on your target which is a bit intimidating until they find the source, and gives you long range abilities - though not enough damage or RoF to stay toe to toe with even light mechs.


jack of all trades - http://mwo.smurfy-ne...30fc8bc0c242038
this keeps one AC2, so you still keep the range and a bit of intimidation - but gain a mid pulse llaz ,+ 2 machine guns for fighting up close. - should be able to stand toe to toe with other lights, and some poorly loaded mids... plus the AMS does work well against streaks, and it reduces any enemy LRMs that are fired near you while you are running through their lines, however a few jump jets may prove to be a better use of weight

for reference here is my 5D build that is serving me very well. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d764048c63affab
it does have less DPS then the 5k's I have above, and i still average 150-200 damage per match.

[WildmouseX]

Kubernetes, on 12 January 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

I've seen some fantastic PPC-wielding lights too, although heat management is dicey.

I was re-reading this thread, and your last sentence inspired me to see if I could squeeze one into a spider. the only one that will support it is the 5D, because the laser mounts are only in the torso for the other two. - here's what I came up with.. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1030d7ce460bf81

- the ams can be swapped out for another heat sink if heat is an issue, or for jump jets depending on play style.
- the sm puls las' can be swapped for on mid las, but I think firing them in chain would work better for fending off lights and mids that come hunting for you.

Edit - I realized that I had enough $$ to try this build out, I have a ERPPC, and two sm pulse lasers on her - little more armor then this, and two jump jets instead of the ams... works very well after several test runs... performs about as good as my regular 5d build.

Edited by WildmouseX, 12 January 2014 - 11:04 PM.