36 replies to this topic

[Wine O]

Is there really a point to having a team commander with the ability to mess up lances in regular matches? This seems to often result with a pre-made lance being broken up by some random pug. When the group asks to have their lance reconstituted, the request is invariably rebuffed - often rudely. [redacted]

This function should probably be removed for normal matches and reserved for 12 man groups where lance formation is useful, coordinated, and does not end with a bunch of shattered mechs at their spawn point.

Just a thought.

Edited by Egomane, 16 January 2014 - 05:32 AM.
CoC violation

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

All that needs to happen is to allow players to flag themselves to give permission for lance swaps. If you aren't flagged the CO can't move you. Having the ability to take command just for the big start next to your name can be invaluable in PUGs and it'd be a shame to have it removed entirely.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Every time a premade I've been in was split, asking politely was enough to have it reconstituted. Once a troll refused, which was inconvenient, but we just played harder and stuck together anyway, despite not being in the same lance.

[redacted]

Edited by Egomane, 16 January 2014 - 05:33 AM.
responing to removed content

[Ngamok]

Had a match on Sunday I think on Forest Colony Snow. Guy in Charlie Lance took command and started moving everyone around. Guy that was in Bravo Lance asked to be put back because it was a premade (I assume 4). Then I got moved to Charlie Lance (I was in Alpha) and asked to be put back as well since I was with my clan (we were also 4). Now unless you are super new and do not know, chances are Alpha Lance is going to be a 4 man. Not always, but good chances.

So he didn't put us back and one of my clan guys was asking for some help where he was. Well since I couldn't tell where he was since I couldn't look and see who was alone with the Teal Triangle I said he'd have to be more specific since he was now just a Blue Triangle. He died so I just ran off towards a JM6 and told the team good luck because I didn't want to play this round anymore since the guy wouldn't give up command and wouldn't put us back in the original spots.

[Axeman1]

Anytime someone takes lance or company command I usually just ignore any "orders".

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Ngamok, on 15 January 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

post

You know it's still really easy to focus fire, right? If you're on voice comms, call the designation. Just like normal. If not, hit Y instead of U and type it there. Suicide scouting out of a match because a lancemate's triangle changed colour is ridiculous.

[Mister Blastman]

Wine O, on 15 January 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Is there really a point to having a team commander with the ability to mess up lances in regular matches? This seems to often result with a pre-made lance being broken up by some random pug. When the group asks to have their lance reconstituted, the request is invariably rebuffed - often rudely. [redacted]

This function should probably be removed for normal matches and reserved for 12 man groups where lance formation is useful, coordinated, and does not end with a bunch of shattered mechs at their spawn point.

Just a thought.

Only a [redacted] takes command and messes with lance composition.

Good commanders issue orders and are respectful of their teammates. Even better commanders take command and issue utterly simple, {Dezgra}-proof ones.

Edited by Egomane, 16 January 2014 - 05:35 AM.
quote cleaned up, CoC violation

[OneEyed Jack]

Ngamok, on 15 January 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

Had a match on Sunday I think on Forest Colony Snow. Guy in Charlie Lance took command and started moving everyone around. Guy that was in Bravo Lance asked to be put back because it was a premade (I assume 4). Then I got moved to Charlie Lance (I was in Alpha) and asked to be put back as well since I was with my clan (we were also 4). Now unless you are super new and do not know, chances are Alpha Lance is going to be a 4 man. Not always, but good chances.

So he didn't put us back and one of my clan guys was asking for some help where he was. Well since I couldn't tell where he was since I couldn't look and see who was alone with the Teal Triangle I said he'd have to be more specific since he was now just a Blue Triangle. He died so I just ran off towards a JM6 and told the team good luck because I didn't want to play this round anymore since the guy wouldn't give up command and wouldn't put us back in the original spots.

So, what I'm reading is your clan-mate went off alone and got in trouble and bawled for help. But since he was just a normal blue triangle, and either it's beyond your abilities or you just arrogantly refuse to learn to work with the entire team, you were unable to help. So, in a petulant nerd-rage you suicided to screw your team.

Yeah... it was all his fault.

[Lykaon]

Ngamok, on 15 January 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

Had a match on Sunday I think on Forest Colony Snow. Guy in Charlie Lance took command and started moving everyone around. Guy that was in Bravo Lance asked to be put back because it was a premade (I assume 4). Then I got moved to Charlie Lance (I was in Alpha) and asked to be put back as well since I was with my clan (we were also 4). Now unless you are super new and do not know, chances are Alpha Lance is going to be a 4 man. Not always, but good chances.

So he didn't put us back and one of my clan guys was asking for some help where he was. Well since I couldn't tell where he was since I couldn't look and see who was alone with the Teal Triangle I said he'd have to be more specific since he was now just a Blue Triangle. He died so I just ran off towards a JM6 and told the team good luck because I didn't want to play this round anymore since the guy wouldn't give up command and wouldn't put us back in the original spots.

I find it odd that your method of locating a lancemate would have much to do with finding a teal colored triangle since all your lancemates have their current grid location posted on the lance interface in the top left of your HUD.


The lance interface gives you pilot name - mech type - mech condition in a % value - current grid location.

Ie: Leeeeroy Jenkins Atlas AS7D 59% B2

So if Leeeeroy is calling for help glance up to the left and see what grid he is in and also check to see how quickly his mech is being damaged to determine if it's even a feasable rescue attempt in the first place.


Also when a puggy commander opts to switch around premade lances and refuses to restore the lance they more than likely do not know how the HUD works or have such a limited veiw on team work that they never realized how useful a lance status display is.

Edited by Lykaon, 15 January 2014 - 03:13 PM.

[Lykaon]

Axeman1, on 15 January 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

Anytime someone takes lance or company command I usually just ignore any "orders".

Why? seriously out of curiosity why would you ignore the potential to cooperate?

I can see it ifthe orders are obviously foolish like file in one at a time 10 seconds apart towards the enemy gunline but even a good command is ignored?

And if you think you know better than how about you take command.

[Wine O]

[redacted] But given that some people take every little slight so personally [redacted] and the challenge of 12 random people quickly becoming a unified group who can overcome disagreements the rarity rather than the norm, perhaps we should save advanced lance formations for more coordinated groups. I can see new players making a social faux pas by playing with the command feature and garnering the ire of grumpy team mates resulting in "misunderstandings". This is not good for the game.

Edited by Egomane, 16 January 2014 - 05:37 AM.
CoC violation

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Wine O, on 15 January 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

[redacted]

But given that some people take every little slight so personally [redacted]

and the challenge of 12 random people quickly becoming a unified group who can overcome disagreements the rarity rather than the norm, perhaps we should save advanced lance formations for more coordinated groups. I can see new players making a social faux pas by playing with the command feature and garnering the ire of grumpy team mates resulting in "misunderstandings". This is not good for the game.

Well, the ToS disagree with you. TK'ing is a punishable offence, period.

I wouldn't deliberately test my teammates' patience by shooting them with anything. Neither should you.

So, are you saying that because you fail to exercise fire discipline and people use a feature that was designed to be, y'know, used, they should remove lances entirely?

Edited by Egomane, 16 January 2014 - 05:38 AM.
quote clean-up

[MuonNeutrino]

[redacted]

Frankly, BS. One, there's generally no sure way to know if someone's in a premade - plenty of them don't go for the obvious coordinated faction tags. You're advocating that people completely ignore an entire game feature just because using it *MIGHT* occasionally split up a group - especially when it's one of the VERY few features the game has to try and let pug players coordinate in any way? And if you're on comms, then even *without* the lance display you have INFINITELY more ability to coordinate than anyone else - if you can't keep your lance together without that crutch, then maybe you aren't as good as you think you are.

Second, there IS a point to re-arranging the lances. If done sensibly, it can enhance the leader's ability to give orders - remember, the battlegrid issues orders by lance. If the leader wants to direct a bunch of fast mechs to flank or cap or whatever, having them all be in the same lance greatly helps that. Sure, someone can be stupid and rearrange the lances to put all the mechs into alphabetical order or something useless like that, but that's hardly the *only* thing that you can do with that function, unlike what so many people seem to imply.

Edited by Egomane, 16 January 2014 - 05:40 AM.
responding to removed content

[Prezimonto]

All they need to do is flag who's in a pre-made and lock them in a unit together..... so if you move one, you move them all to a new lance (swapping back anyone needed to balance). If lances have too many pre-mades to move them, nothing happens.

[KharnZor]

Mister Blastman, on 15 January 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Only a tool takes command and messes with lance composition.

Good commanders issue orders and are respectful of their teammates. Even better commanders take command and issue utterly simple, {Dezgra}-proof ones.

I like it when i'm on the same team as you Blasty. You give orders and stuff for the win

[Ngamok]

Arnold J Rimmer, on 15 January 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

You know it's still really easy to focus fire, right? If you're on voice comms, call the designation. Just like normal. If not, hit Y instead of U and type it there. Suicide scouting out of a match because a lancemate's triangle changed colour is ridiculous.

Did you even read? I said it's easier to look for Teal Triangles over Blue Triangles when my Lancemate on TS3 said he needed help but didn't list which coordinate right away I had no way to tell. I had to guess which one was him till he told me which sector on the map he was on. And it's not ridiulous. It's called helping out a buddy.

OneEyed Jack, on 15 January 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

So, what I'm reading is your clan-mate went off alone and got in trouble and bawled for help. But since he was just a normal blue triangle, and either it's beyond your abilities or you just arrogantly refuse to learn to work with the entire team, you were unable to help. So, in a petulant nerd-rage you suicided to screw your team.

Yeah... it was all his fault.

Yea, because it happens, you know.

Lykaon, on 15 January 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

I find it odd that your method of locating a lancemate would have much to do with finding a teal colored triangle since all your lancemates have their current grid location posted on the lance interface in the top left of your HUD.


The lance interface gives you pilot name - mech type - mech condition in a % value - current grid location.

Ie: Leeeeroy Jenkins Atlas AS7D 59% B2

So if Leeeeroy is calling for help glance up to the left and see what grid he is in and also check to see how quickly his mech is being damaged to determine if it's even a feasable rescue attempt in the first place.


Also when a puggy commander opts to switch around premade lances and refuses to restore the lance they more than likely do not know how the HUD works or have such a limited veiw on team work that they never realized how useful a lance status display is.

Well if he was in my lance I'd have that info as well wouldn't I? But he wasn't hence what i typed. it's way easier to glance at the mini map and know what spot he is on since all of here have played on these maps for so long, you recognize the spots.

Edited by Ngamok, 15 January 2014 - 07:48 PM.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Ngamok, on 15 January 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

Did you even read? I said it's easier to look for Teal Triangles over Blue Triangles when my Lancemate on TS3 said he needed help but didn't list which coordinate right away I had no way to tell. I had to guess which one was him till he told me which sector on the map he was on. And it's not ridiulous. It's called helping out a buddy.

I suppose I mistakenly assumed that you'd have made the effort to group up with your voice-lance prior to engaging. Then all you need to do is call targets. Good enough of a buddy that you can't recognise his voice? And then have a tantrum or whatever and throw yourself on the enemy's sword.
Try harder.
/shrug

[Deathlike]

KharnZor, on 15 January 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

I like it when i'm on the same team as you Blasty. You give orders and stuff for the win

Go here.

Shoot things.

Win.

S!

[Ngamok]

MuonNeutrino, on 15 January 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

Frankly, BS. One, there's generally no sure way to know if someone's in a premade - plenty of them don't go for the obvious coordinated faction tags. You're advocating that people completely ignore an entire game feature just because using it *MIGHT* occasionally split up a group - especially when it's one of the VERY few features the game has to try and let pug players coordinate in any way? And if you're on comms, then even *without* the lance display you have INFINITELY more ability to coordinate than anyone else - if you can't keep your lance together without that crutch, then maybe you aren't as good as you think you are.

Second, there IS a point to re-arranging the lances. If done sensibly, it can enhance the leader's ability to give orders - remember, the battlegrid issues orders by lance. If the leader wants to direct a bunch of fast mechs to flank or cap or whatever, having them all be in the same lance greatly helps that. Sure, someone can be stupid and rearrange the lances to put all the mechs into alphabetical order or something useless like that, but that's hardly the *only* thing that you can do with that function, unlike what so many people seem to imply.

There is a way to know. It's called move me back when I ask you the first time and tell you Alpha was a 4 man.

[Mystere]

I think the word the OP is looking for is "mutiny". A "coup d'etat" is something entirely different.