36 replies to this topic

[MuonNeutrino]

Ngamok, on 15 January 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

There is a way to know. It's called move me back when I ask you the first time and tell you Alpha was a 4 man.

Which would be fine, if it had been what he was talking about. He's pretty much suggesting that nobody ever rearrange lances ever *just in case* they might accidentally rearrange a premade, which is stupid. Moving people back if they ask politely is something else, though teamkilling if they refuse is still an utter [redacted] move and not at all justified.

Edited by Egomane, 16 January 2014 - 05:42 AM.
language

[Egomane]

So I just cleaned up the thread. Would you all be so kind and read the rules once more before I have to step in again?

[Mudhutwarrior]

I don't understand anyone thinking they have the right to command/rearrange in a pug match. There is no lobbies so your guessing the playstyle of those moved to suit only you and no one else. The vast majority of games where someone takes command or moves anyone [redacted]. Rarely do i see anyone fit to command or anyone that has the slightest idea of tactics. I am not your experiment and neither are my teammates. I have the right to be unmolested in my drop without permission. Ask first if your so hellbent on being commander of the great electron.

I have 9000 matches under my belt and I do not assume I have any right to command anyone never mind rearrange.

[redacted]

Edited by Egomane, 16 January 2014 - 07:05 AM.
CoC violation

[Egomane]

@Mudhutwarrior
My warning above applies to you as well

[Lykaon]

MuonNeutrino, on 15 January 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

[redacted]

Frankly, BS. One, there's generally no sure way to know if someone's in a premade - plenty of them don't go for the obvious coordinated faction tags. You're advocating that people completely ignore an entire game feature just because using it *MIGHT* occasionally split up a group - especially when it's one of the VERY few features the game has to try and let pug players coordinate in any way? And if you're on comms, then even *without* the lance display you have INFINITELY more ability to coordinate than anyone else - if you can't keep your lance together without that crutch, then maybe you aren't as good as you think you are.

Second, there IS a point to re-arranging the lances. If done sensibly, it can enhance the leader's ability to give orders - remember, the battlegrid issues orders by lance. If the leader wants to direct a bunch of fast mechs to flank or cap or whatever, having them all be in the same lance greatly helps that. Sure, someone can be stupid and rearrange the lances to put all the mechs into alphabetical order or something useless like that, but that's hardly the *only* thing that you can do with that function, unlike what so many people seem to imply.

You could ask first? that seems like a reliable way to tell if there is a premade in your team.

I disagree that the lance sorting tool is all that useful to puggies.A Pug commander has no way of knowing (short of a lengthy typing session to ask) if the 4 mechs he sorted into a lance are in fact compatable for performing the same task if ordered to do so.

Conversly a 12 man already knows the desired lance composition so it is a needed tool for 12 v 12.

It's just not designed with puggies in mind (much like most of this game)

[Iskareot]

Wine O, on 15 January 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Is there really a point to having a team commander with the ability to mess up lances in regular matches? This seems to often result with a pre-made lance being broken up by some random pug. When the group asks to have their lance reconstituted, the request is invariably rebuffed - often rudely. [redacted]

This function should probably be removed for normal matches and reserved for 12 man groups where lance formation is useful, coordinated, and does not end with a bunch of shattered mechs at their spawn point.

Just a thought.

I am all for doing this.. in fact I almost hope to see this happen. Thank you for pointing out yet another reason to seperate Pugs from Premade drops.

I have dropped in matches and changed lances just to see if they are a premade. PLUS it is against no rules or anything? Why not do it? Everyone can? Everyone can do what they want? We have pugs running in directions on thier own while a premade team can tear that small pug lance apart?

I hope people continue to change lances and do this. Because if this helps us get the CHOICE to drop solo or premade then I am all for that feature. Hope it happens soon too.

[Roadkill]

Egomane, on 16 January 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

So I just cleaned up the thread. Would you all be so kind and read the rules once more before I have to step in again?

Why was my post deleted in its entirety?

I admit that I probably used inappropriate language (like the kind that you've redacted out of others' posts in this thread), but I also made valid points. So I don't understand why you felt my post needed to be completely removed while others' were simply modified.

[Iskareot]

Lykaon, on 16 January 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

You could ask first? that seems like a reliable way to tell if there is a premade in your team.

I disagree that the lance sorting tool is all that useful to puggies.A Pug commander has no way of knowing (short of a lengthy typing session to ask) if the 4 mechs he sorted into a lance are in fact compatable for performing the same task if ordered to do so.

Conversly a 12 man already knows the desired lance composition so it is a needed tool for 12 v 12.

It's just not designed with puggies in mind (much like most of this game)

Using Logic and stuff ...describing a premade set up vs a pug makes people mad oddly around here. OH and voice coms is not the quick answer. Imagine the 12 year old telling people what to do while calling people names.. then 3 of the group going in thier own direction because that person is a {Dezgra}. Oh yeah.. free voice coms are NOT the answer. Choice of drop types is. Period. NOW... Here is the catch:

What will this do to the game?? My prediction is the premades finding out just really how many people like dropping into them and on the other side of the coin... you almost hope it balances the drops better with this concept. Sure you may have to wait a bit longer for a match BUT hey you chose premade so yeah that is how it goes. I would bet more people would be pugging then they ever thought and that chaos would be sectioned off into its own gameplay. DO NOT take anyones favorite playstyle away. Just give freaking choices.

Mudhutwarrior, on 16 January 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

I don't understand anyone thinking they have the right to command/rearrange in a pug match. There is no lobbies so your guessing the playstyle of those moved to suit only you and no one else. The vast majority of games where someone takes command or moves anyone [redacted]. Rarely do i see anyone fit to command or anyone that has the slightest idea of tactics. I am not your experiment and neither are my teammates. I have the right to be unmolested in my drop without permission. Ask first if your so hellbent on being commander of the great electron.

I have 9000 matches under my belt and I do not assume I have any right to command anyone never mind rearrange.

[redacted]

Yet another reason to seperate Premades from Pug drops or have the choice to drop the way you want and or risk the way you want to play.

Thank you -

MuonNeutrino, on 15 January 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

Which would be fine, if it had been what he was talking about. He's pretty much suggesting that nobody ever rearrange lances ever *just in case* they might accidentally rearrange a premade, which is stupid. Moving people back if they ask politely is something else, though teamkilling if they refuse is still an utter [redacted] move and not at all justified.

And against the rules while moving a premade around is not...

Next thing ya know someone will be telling someone how to play... and not to go in a direction as to not help the drop team... I mean gosh..

Edited by Iskareot, 16 January 2014 - 01:27 PM.

[Roadbeer]

I just grab company command if I have a group of 2 or more as soon as I get in match.

Only order I give, since nobody reads it anyway, and I really only care about my Evil Premade team anyway is..

"DON'T GO TO THE PUGZAPPER" when on Terra Therma.

Rest of the time, we'll just activate the PUGshield and clean up their messes.

[Iskareot]

Arnold J Rimmer, on 15 January 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

You know it's still really easy to focus fire, right? If you're on voice comms, call the designation. Just like normal. If not, hit Y instead of U and type it there. Suicide scouting out of a match because a lancemate's triangle changed colour is ridiculous.

This whole thread is a reason to give choice at this point now reading it all. I do hope this is seen by a dev or two

[Egomane]

Roadkill, on 16 January 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

Why was my post deleted in its entirety?

I admit that I probably used inappropriate language (like the kind that you've redacted out of others' posts in this thread), but I also made valid points. So I don't understand why you felt my post needed to be completely removed while others' were simply modified.

Please contact me in private about it and I'll explain it to you, or write a mail to support@mwomercs.com. Discussing moderation on the forums is a no-go (rules and all that)!

[MustrumRidcully]

Is this actually a game balance topic? Isn't this more.. Oh, I don't know - Metagame perhaps? General Discussion?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Just ask first. Its not only polite because others will respect you for it. Your not special, your the same decaying organic matter as everyone else.

[skotsche]

Roadbeer, on 16 January 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

I just grab company command if I have a group of 2 or more as soon as I get in match.

Only order I give, since nobody reads it anyway, and I really only care about my Evil Premade team anyway is..

"DON'T GO TO THE PUGZAPPER" when on Terra Therma.

Rest of the time, we'll just activate the PUGshield and clean up their messes.

I think this is ridiculous. Of cause there are always {Surat} on your team, but there are always puggers enoying some nice teamwork. And if you have premades in your team it would really help if they would communicate with the team.

The arrogance of premades using a PUGshgield instead of working with the team is one of the things that makes me wish for a separate queue.

[Mudhutwarrior]

skotsche, on 18 January 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

I think this is ridiculous. Of cause there are always {Surat} on your team, but there are always puggers enoying some nice teamwork. And if you have premades in your team it would really help if they would communicate with the team.

The arrogance of premades using a PUGshgield instead of working with the team is one of the things that makes me wish for a separate queue.

You have to take it from its source. He doesn't play 12v just pug stomps and defends the practice along with his buddies. If you have the easy way under control you will fight to keep it that way.

[skotsche]

Mudhutwarrior, on 18 January 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

You have to take it from its source. He doesn't play 12v just pug stomps and defends the practice along with his buddies. If you have the easy way under control you will fight to keep it that way.

True. But it is sad in general that premades do not use their experience to guide willing puggers through a match.

If I ask for premades in the team at the start of a match I rarely get an answer. So I guess that most premades dont reveal themselves.

[Mudhutwarrior]

skotsche, on 18 January 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

True. But it is sad in general that premades do not use their experience to guide willing puggers through a match.

If I ask for premades in the team at the start of a match I rarely get an answer. So I guess that most premades dont reveal themselves.

Well just more evidence to support my claim. They care nothing about team play like they claim. Teams are not 4 plus fill. teams move to 12v but you wont see that either but they are the first to raise the team flag here.