137 replies to this topic

[SuperJoe]

Oxide as it is would flippin rock as a hit and runner back in the day when srms were worth something. If SRMs were usable there wouldn't need to be a change.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Can't we heat up the coils, poke holes in the exhaust, and slap spinners on it? Maybe toss a can of red bull in there?

[Laserkid]

Jenner IIC.

[EnigmaNL]

Add jump jets, that's all I want.

I like the idea of a ballistic hardpoint (or two).

[Noesis]

Add JJ use, 1 energy hard point in the head. This to retain its unique design first and foremost as a missile Jenner.

Otherwise to make it less unique and bring more into line with the other Jenners: add JJs, 2 energy hard points in the "torsos", lose 1 missile point in the centre. I feel the energy hard points shouldn't go in the arms for better aiming to again encourage the effective use of this Jenner as first and foremost a missile boat.

[DrxAbstract]

I see a lot of "If you add (Weapon), it'll be OP". A common mistake people seem to be making is the comparison of the Oxide to other Streak-oriented designs, such as the A1, Kintaro and Shadowhawk.

I say this a mistake because these are, respectively, 55 and 65 ton Mechs... Not 35 Tons.

This is my Oxide with Streaks.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cdfd1834b9effcd

As you can see, in order to squeeze in a 300XL with 4 Streaks, BAP and 4 tons of Ammo (50 shots per launcher), i had to drop some armor from relatively hit-free zones. If i dropped down to a 295XL, i could restore the Armor. Another weapon hard point or two would lead to a design dilemma - Where is the tonnage going to come from? With their current implementation, it takes a godawful number of Streak shots to really put the hurt on anything in the Light or Medium range, which the Oxide in its current state can carry enough launchers and ammo to do sufficiently over a given period of time, however if you add another Missile slot, you need to ditch engine size or ammo. Adding 2 more Missile slots would leave you with too many slots and not enough tonnage. The F for example has 6 Energy slots, and the most common iteration of that variant is 5-6 Medium Lasers (1 Ton each) which you can barely squeeze in with a 300XL and 1 JJ with, depending on your design preference, 4-5 extra DHS (In my case, 11.5 Tons total). Now you're talking about 6 Missile slots that, for Streaks, are 1.5 Tons each with accompanying Ammo (3 Tons, or 25 Alphas) and BAP with 0 JJ, minus extra DHS that's 13.5 Tons... 2 Tons on a 35 Ton Light... Where are you going to get it from? It would be mildly more effective at hunting Lights than a Kintaro but still be relatively slow with extremely limited ammo, and that's if it used Streaks and not SRMs.

The problem with the "Dont want another A1" mentality is the A1, Kintaro and Shadowhawk are only useful against Lights and Mediums, while the Kintaro and Hawk actually carry backup weapons to supplement this... All of them have sufficient extra tonnage for options - This is a 35 Ton Mech.

So, 6 Missile slots? No. That and Hero variants traditionally have 1 less weapon slot than their counterparts, so 5 slots total would be sufficient.

The other limitation Jenners have, rather the D and Oxide, is their CT carries 2 Slots, which is a proportionally massive limitation since you can only use 1 Artemis SRM, two less accurate SRM launchers or 2 Streaks. With the Oxide it means 1/4th of your slots are useless if you want Artemis SRMs or lose accuracy for 4 standard SRMs... arguably the accuracy makes up for the loss of an entire weapon (In my opinion, it doesnt). The only balancing factor here should be the additional tonnage required to fit Artemis SRM launchers, and possibly an extra ton of ammo... not having to choose between low damage with mild accuracy or mild damage with low accuracy.

The other point to make is the number of JJs on a Jenner is irrelevant. One JJ is more than sufficient to exponentially boost the Oxide's survivability and maneuverability, so this talk of giving them JJs, but only 2 or 3, is nonsensical nitpicking. You also run into the reason the Oxide isnt the absolute best Light Hunter-Killer right now is the fact it doesnt have JJs. In terms of Light vs Light, the lack of JJs is the only thing that gives other Lights a chance to kill or at least survive an encounter with one. JJs on an Oxide would immediately make it the best anti-Light mech in the game... granted it would still be scrap against anything bigger. So how do we fix it? That's why we're all here!

Well the issues with the Oxide is it needs JJs for survival, cant have a lot of missile slots so it isnt potentially OP versus other Lights, needs reallocated hardpoints for broader option availability and needs supplemental/backup weapons for larger targets... Sound about right?

Oxide (Base sale design)
245 STD Engine
Armor: 176 (238)
RA: 2 Streak SRM2 (1 Ton ammo)
RT: Empty
CT: 1 SRM 4 (1 Ton ammo)
LT: AMS(Unequipped)
LA: 2 Medium Lasers
Jump Jets: 1(2)
Heat Sinks: 10 Standard Heat Sinks
Internal Structure: Endo Steel
Armor: Standard Armor

Oxide (Base sale design - Alternate)
245 STD Engine
Armor: 176 (238)
RA: 1 Streak SRM2 (1 Ton ammo), 1 Medium Laser
RT: Empty
CT: 1 SRM 4 (1 Ton ammo)
LT: AMS(Unequipped)
LA: 1 Streak SRM2, 1 Medium Laser
Jump Jets: 1(2)
Heat Sinks: 10 Standard Heat Sinks
Internal Structure: Endo Steel
Armor: Standard Armor

Essentially it's a Commando 2D minus the ECM but with JJs! Artemis can be used effectively, has support weapons and wont be completely obscene versus other Lights. Everyone's happy YAY! (I hope). Also, get rid of that stupid 'quirk'.

Edited by DrxAbstract, 16 January 2014 - 02:46 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Don't change my oxide.... I love the little mech. If you MUST change it, add 3 JJ and another AMS. Otherwise, leave it alone. It ain't broke, don't fix it.

[C E Dwyer]

I don't know why Russ thinks its really nerfed

if I don't get 450 plus damage with it I've had a poor game

Clearly Russ doesn't run, bap and 4 streaks.

if he feels it needs buff just take off the slow acceleration and give it a couple of jump jets.

not that I would use the JJ's as it would mean taking out a ton of ammo


ask the highlander pilot I solo's if he thought oxides are {Scrap} against anything but lights btw

Edited by Cathy, 16 January 2014 - 05:33 AM.

[Barantor]

I don't feel it is broken, some super high elo folks might, but I doubt they would use it anyway.

If you had to change it either....

Add 2 JJs like Jester and remove agility nerf, do not add hardpoints.

or...

Add 1 ballistic or energy in each arm and no JJs, remove agility nerf.

This makes it either a different Jenner with JJs, or a pretty well armed Jenner without JJs that can hang out with Cicadas/Raven/Commandos.

Doing too much more is not needed. The agility nerf is too much as it is for something that is light on hardpoints. I would suggest in the future only having 'nerf quirks' for things that seem a bit too overpowered as standard.

If we are redoing hero mechs then I know of this Awesome variant that needs some love.....

[C E Dwyer]

I just took mine out after reading this a 1/8 kill assist and 463 damage..

I feel so nerfed..


next game only 3 assists and 360 damage but then I was in a team where out of 5 assaults only 1 topped 100 damage, and its hard to stay alive when all the other team are shooting at you

Edited by Cathy, 16 January 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[DONTOR]

Cattra Kell, on 15 January 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

I really like the idea now of something like 1 ballistic in each torso and keep the 4 missiles as they are already so it would be:
1 Missile Left Arm
1 AMS, 1 Ballistic Left Torso
2 Missile Center Torso
1 Ballistic Right Torso
1 Missile Right Arm

Yep thats exactly what I was thinking stock oxcide with the addition of 2 ballistics one in each torso.

[NRP]

Hmm . . . does Russ even play the game? The Oxide doesn't feel gimped to me. Sure, it's a very situational "risk/reward" mech, but what it does (kill other lights), it does very well. It's not a "jack of all trades" mech. It has a very specfic role.

But hey, buffs are cool so here are my suggestions, in order of preference:

1. Add a jump jet or two.
2. Add either two ballistic hard points or two energy hard points.
3. Give it a war horn.

But really PGI, why not do a community brainstorming session for buffing the Pretty Baby? It needs it a hell of a lot more than the Oxide.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

I would have gone with 2x energy in the CT, and 2x missiles in each of the arms.
... other options that could work would be to double up the hard points in the CT, with 2x missiles and 2x energy (like the AWS-9M), or
... take one missile hard point out of the CT and add one energy hard point to each side torso.

Regardless, the main reason I haven't even considered buying it is the lack of jump jets ... give it 2 or 3, and I'll buy it tomorrow.

[CDLord HHGD]

NRP, on 16 January 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

Hmm . . . does Russ even play the game? The Oxide doesn't feel gimped to me. Sure, it's a very situational "risk/reward" mech, but what it does (kill other lights), it does very well. It's not a "jack of all trades" mech. It has a very specfic role.

But hey, buffs are cool so here are my suggestions, in order of preference:

1. Add a jump jet or two.
2. Add either two ballistic hard points or two energy hard points.
3. Give it a war horn.

But really PGI, why not do a community brainstorming session for buffing the Pretty Baby? It needs it a hell of a lot more than the Oxide.

Warhorns are OP!

[Odanan]

Add 1 energy hardpoint in the head
OR
Add 2 jumpjets (for the maximum 3).

[TercieI]

TheMagician, on 15 January 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

If you add any missile slots to the oxide, it will be fairly OP. One energy slot would be okay.

Right now, its nearly as good as any light. If you give it JJ, it will offer a unique mech and light experience, but 4 strk 2s will still be on par against a Jenner F or D. But don't give it JJ and an energy.

+1. I already love the thing.

JJ would be pure benefit. So would energy. Both would be overkill. It would immediately be the best Jenner (and thus the best light).

If I were to make any changes, I'd just move the missiles to be 2/2 in the arms and put a single energy point in the CT.

[levitas]

The problem with the mentality behind "I did 5-600 damage, it's a fine mech" is that there's a real difference between relevant damage and damage. You see that Catapult? It's probably gonna die when it's CT gets cored out. However, since you're running streaks only, you'll be doing about 4x the amount of damage you would if you were killing it with lasers.

With light mechs, the components are all a lot closer together, making it difficult for other weapon systems to be focused on one part of the mech. Do you really want that RT on the spider? Good luck, it may hit the arm, CT, or even LT or leg depending on whether you're using lasers or if the spider decides to turn or jump just then.

I'm not saying streakboats are a waste of time, but I would definitely like to point out that the lack of efficiency in the damage means that inflated damage numbers are not a good indicator of an effective mech.

[CDLord HHGD]

I run mine with 2xSSRM and 2xSRM4, she's a fine mech, a solid hitter. I get 400+ damage on average per fight as well and it's not the same loadout.

[NRP]

cdlord, on 16 January 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Warhorns are OP!

Only the gold ones.

solar levitas, on 16 January 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

The problem with the mentality behind "I did 5-600 damage, it's a fine mech" is that there's a real difference between relevant damage and damage. You see that Catapult? It's probably gonna die when it's CT gets cored out. However, since you're running streaks only, you'll be doing about 4x the amount of damage you would if you were killing it with lasers.

With light mechs, the components are all a lot closer together, making it difficult for other weapon systems to be focused on one part of the mech. Do you really want that RT on the spider? Good luck, it may hit the arm, CT, or even LT or leg depending on whether you're using lasers or if the spider decides to turn or jump just then.

I'm not saying streakboats are a waste of time, but I would definitely like to point out that the lack of efficiency in the damage means that inflated damage numbers are not a good indicator of an effective mech.

I'm guessing you've never piloted an Oxide?

[Euri Yggdrasil]

Leave missile hardpoints in arms, remove missile hardpoint in torso, add Jump Jets, add ECM slot to left torso.

Edited by Euri, 16 January 2014 - 09:06 AM.