7 replies to this topic

[Jimmy Page]

Everyone complains that only long range 2PPC / AC builds are viable these days. This is a sad and true fact. Brawling is dead. If your team is smart you can quickly manuever behind them and take them out, but we are talking PUGs with a broken matchmaker.

First, make jump jets have a cool down timer so they don't instantly start recharging when you hit the ground. It can be on a sliding scale. The heavier the mech, the longer the cool down. Let's say 5 minutes for Highlanders haha. This way lights are not punished for these build abusers.

Second, make one jump jet do almost nothing. One jet can get you over small rocks and help up hills. That's It! If you want to fly, you need to have more jump jets. Period. None of this H333C {Scrap} with one jump jet popping up and down over and over. You actually have to sacrifice some weight to do your no skill jump up and fire on the way down tactics. This means less heatsinks and AC ammo for your uber build.

Cheers! Glad i can help!

[Lykaon]

Jump sniping (poptarting) is only an evolution of tactics brought about by a mechanics interaction that allows front loading high damage weapons to be grouped together and fired to hit a single location.

If jumpjets did not exist we would still be seeing mechs built to serve this meta of alpha striking as much front loaded damage as possible.

But if you want to see jump sniping nerfed instead of nerfing jumpjet functionality for all situations and not just poptarting perhaps look at a solution that does not effect other tactics that use jets that are not "offenders"

Like,the reticule shake is always in effect while in the air not just when the jets are firing,scale the shake down with mech tonnage to it being a nearly nonexistant issue for lights and mediums.

Or,only one weapon in excess of 7 tons can be fired in a group while in the air.

Fixing jets to have a proportional effect on lift is a very good idea and is one that is well supported by many of the players.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Jimmy Page, on 16 January 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

Everyone complains that only long range 2PPC / AC builds are viable these days. This is a sad and true fact. Brawling is dead. If your team is smart you can quickly manuever behind them and take them out, but we are talking PUGs with a broken matchmaker.

First, make jump jets have a cool down timer so they don't instantly start recharging when you hit the ground. It can be on a sliding scale. The heavier the mech, the longer the cool down. Let's say 5 minutes for Highlanders haha. This way lights are not punished for these build abusers.

Second, make one jump jet do almost nothing. One jet can get you over small rocks and help up hills. That's It! If you want to fly, you need to have more jump jets. Period. None of this H333C {Scrap} with one jump jet popping up and down over and over. You actually have to sacrifice some weight to do your no skill jump up and fire on the way down tactics. This means less heatsinks and AC ammo for your uber build.

Cheers! Glad i can help!

Fun fact... back in closed beta, and even a bit into open beta... jump jets didn't work like they do now... the effect took effort. Because the game was modeling the jumping model off of real physics. JJ's were slow, and were more for movement than to use as a jump sniping platform.

Then, then the whining started. Everyone complained that jump jets were too difficult to use, that the mechs should take off faster. So they changed it. Do you know what happened right after that change? Literally the day the change was made. PPC and Gauss jump sniping became the norm.

And it's been that way ever since.

[Foxwalker]

I do not agree with your premise, that brawling is dead. It is my preferred play style. Jump Sniping is just one more tactic, like LRM boating or Light Lance Wolf packing, that once your team is aware of, it can be reasonably countered.

My experience is that the overwelming amount of Poptarting was eliminated when they introduced cockpit shake to Jumping. My experience is that a single jump jet on an Assault or Heavy mech is not enough to get high enough for me to accurately shoot in the 1/2 second window on the down side of the jump. I am sure some have the knack, but it is no longer the big issue it used to be.

Nurfing yet another weapon/component should not be the first answer to countering a play style tactic. Honestly, I think your suggestion, could possibly make Jumping lights have a dominant advantage. It is interesting to note that relatively small changes like this can alter gameplay balance in significant ways that are unexpected.

Thanks!

[Kh0rn]

Its pretty clear that JJ are not how they are suppose too function. Instead of a long drawn out thrust into the air it suppose too be a burst up or in what ever direction your mech was facing since the JJ are on the back of the mech, second apon touch down the mech would take 1 -2 stall before being able too move, 3rd the heat generated by the JJ would be in the region of 30-40 % heat and lastley the recharge time would take any where between 2-3 before the JJ would start too regen. As for foward thrust if you were running foward say at the speed a HGN moves 60 odd something if the JJ was fired at that speed the mech should leap foward 120 as it describes in BT not like 3 meters. And the last thing is if a 90 ton mech should jump its full 110 straight up with no thrust too use while coming too land it should damage the leg actuators big time. So if I round it up JJ should be used for a mobility advantage while poptarting has its place in MWO if the JJ were done correctly it would make it both a harder tactic but more skill full. If you want a good example play Mechwarrior living legends and use the jump jets thats exactly how it is suppose too function.

A few fixes MWLL team used too adress JJ poptarting.

• Mech HUD shake on ascent - Reduced the amount of time the pilot has to locate and fire at a target to the descending arc of a jump
  
• Slower Jump Jet energy recharge - Increased delay before JJ energy starts to recharge. This reduces the frequency the pilot may poptart.
  
• Jump Jets produce more heat - Another balance change to reduce the effectiveness of Alpha strike poptarters.

Edited by Kh0rn, 17 January 2014 - 05:00 AM.

[Mechteric]

Kh0rn, on 17 January 2014 - 04:56 AM, said:

A few fixes MWLL team used too adress JJ poptarting.

• Mech HUD shake on ascent - Reduced the amount of time the pilot has to locate and fire at a target to the descending arc of a jump
  
• Slower Jump Jet energy recharge - Increased delay before JJ energy starts to recharge. This reduces the frequency the pilot may poptart.
  
• Jump Jets produce more heat - Another balance change to reduce the effectiveness of Alpha strike poptarters.

Also the jump jets in MWLL boosted you much faster in the air, making them more useful in brawling situations (or to dodge LRMs), but also I think it made it jump sniping more balanced because you had less control over how high to jump in the air so you had a harder time getting a bead on the the enemy and since you were higher in the air the enemy has more time to shoot you on the way down. Maybe I'm not good at explaining how awesome it is, but it really made a huge difference from the floaty jets they had before (just like MWO).

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 17 January 2014 - 06:27 AM.

[Kh0rn]

Exactly MWLL jumpjets are perfect and exactly on how it should function they should be replicated in MWO. It would solve the issue. You explained it well it worked like a jump and not a climb it was a boost an shot you up into the air or foward or left or right it was a high risk attempt too shoot the enemy and it was mainly used for jumping too cover or getting some where your legs could not take you.

Edited by Kh0rn, 17 January 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[Cenjuro]

Brawling is dead.