125 replies to this topic

[R Razor]

The Dakka Tears are fuel for my next 1000 matches, I freakin' LOVE it........no more of the "fire from spawn to spawn" crap that some folks love so much.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Charons Little Helper, on 15 April 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

they should have lowered AC2 heat to compensate the lower DPS)

Having a lower rate of fire does in fact lower your rate of heat as well. One affects the other.

[dario03]

Hans Von Lohman, on 15 April 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

Having a lower rate of fire does in fact lower your rate of heat as well. One affects the other.

Yeah but he probably means lowering it to a level that actually compares to the AC5. The AC2 has 2.5x the HPS while actually having a slightly lower DPS and now a decent bit less extended range. The only thing they have going for them is
regular range
speed (which isn't a big deal since that mostly helped with far shots and the extended range is so much shorter now)
crit and weight (but needing to add DHS takes that away and then some unless you just want 1 on a otherwise heat efficient build and just can't get a AC5)

Going with a extreme example you can see how 3 AC2 with 16 more DHS is still a bit less heat efficient than 3 AC5 with nothing but the engine heatsinks.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ad87cf21163c145
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...86976ed649edc90

[Graugger]

Great now I have nothing to worry about when popping people with ER PPCs from across the map now MWWWWWAAAAAA!!!

Oh yeah I LOVE that the AC/2 now has a shorter range than the AC/5 heavily contrary to any source materials. You know an easier way to do this would be to remove ballistics that way I don't have to watch for those pesky little gauss mechs who think they can peg my jump jetting quad PPC mech.

Edited by Graugger, 15 April 2014 - 05:18 PM.

[Black Ivan]

Exactly this. Weapon balance is a bad joke in the game.

[Roadkill]

Kjudoon, on 15 April 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

The question is now this: What will you replace them with?

Replace what, the AC/2?

I'd have to be using them in order to need to replace them. AC/2 was already inferior to the AC/5. Now it's just more inferior.

[Charons Little Helper]

Hans Von Lohman, on 15 April 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

Having a lower rate of fire does in fact lower your rate of heat as well. One affects the other.

Well - yes. In the same way it makes their ammo last longer. But I was talking about the heat to damage ratio. (more important than total heat)

As it stands - the AC2's heat to damage ratio is 0.5 vs the AC5's 0.2. The AC2 is a tie for the worst in the game besides energy weapons. (tied with SRM2)

Admittedly - even the most heat efficient energy weapon (small laser) is sitting at 0.67, and most are in the 0.75 - 1.0 range. (ERPPC being an outlier at 1.5) But they are far more tonnage efficient and don't need to worry about ammo.

The AC2's heat should be dropped to .5, giving them a heat ratio of 0.25. It'd still be slightly less heat efficient than the AC5, but slightly more efficient than the AC10 & AC20 (each at 0.3) putting it at a middling efficiency for ACs.

[Kjudoon]

Roadkill, on 16 April 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Replace what, the AC/2?

I'd have to be using them in order to need to replace them. AC/2 was already inferior to the AC/5. Now it's just more inferior.

Exactly my point. Now that the AC2 is inferior, what will you use instead of the AC2?

[Roadkill]

Kjudoon, on 16 April 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Exactly my point. Now that the AC2 is inferior, what will you use instead of the AC2?

Sorry, I don't follow. Are you being sarcastic? My detector seems to be broken.

[Kjudoon]

Roadkill, on 16 April 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Sorry, I don't follow. Are you being sarcastic? My detector seems to be broken.

LOL... no, I'm not being sarcastic or mocking. I'm just asking the logical question. If AC2s are now garbage, what will replace them?

[Charons Little Helper]

Kjudoon, on 16 April 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

LOL... no, I'm not being sarcastic or mocking. I'm just asking the logical question. If AC2s are now garbage, what will replace them?

But the quote you were originally responding to was saying that they weren't good before, so there's nothing to replace.

[Joseph Mallan]

R Razor, on 15 April 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

The Dakka Tears are fuel for my next 1000 matches, I freakin' LOVE it........no more of the "fire from spawn to spawn" crap that some folks love so much.

What wasn't to love? Don't get me wrong, I am fine with the range Nerf but dude I could kill a person at 500m With an assault rifle easy. We are firing weapons that should be able to kill at 1-2 MILES... or more!!!

[Charons Little Helper]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2014 - 04:27 AM, said:

What wasn't to love? Don't get me wrong, I am fine with the range Nerf but dude I could kill a person at 500m With an assault rifle easy. We are firing weapons that should be able to kill at 1-2 MILES... or more!!!

When it comes to discussions of physics etc. - I think Battletech counts as fantasy.

[Joseph Mallan]

Charons Little Helper, on 17 April 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

When it comes to discussions of physics etc. - I think Battletech counts as fantasy.

I'm allergic to felines. So I have no problems with physics in gaming.

[Rex Budman]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2014 - 04:27 AM, said:

What wasn't to love? Don't get me wrong, I am fine with the range Nerf but dude I could kill a person at 500m With an assault rifle easy. We are firing weapons that should be able to kill at 1-2 MILES... or more!!!

It's all about scale dude.

Then again I love Autocannons! I think they rock. I don't use them though - I used to use them in my K2 x2 AC5 x4ML - was once a good build.

[HighTest]

FupDup, on 14 April 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

How about no....

Buff the sinks so energy weapons used in large quantities can have similar usefulness as builds that mix energy and ballistics.

I've been trying to push this for nearly a year and a half now... DHS should all really be 2.0x DOUBLE Heat Sinks.

Frankly, I suspect that this is one of the main things forcing the re-balancing of many of the weapons in-game. Large energy weapons overheat more because of this. The Awesome is a nearly useless chassis because this, which along with ghost heat, has effectively made it's formerly-iconic 3xPPC build useless. Lights are more dangerous now than assaults, since it's easier to hit and run with a bunch of medium lasers than it is for an assault mech to pack enough weaponry to hit the light when it finally puts itself in its slow crosshairs and to sustain a consistent rate of fire.

(I get why they did this -- it was originally meant to combat lights that were packing on energy weapons and double heat sinks making them somewhat overpowered in Beta. But the problem is I think it ended up affecting the bigger mechs more than it did the lights.)

Long story short: Cripple one game mechanic. Wonder why things seem decidedly out of balance. Then start trying to cripple everything else to put them in balance with the first crippled thing.

Plain and simply, the main reason ballistics seem overpowered is that the heat-to-damage ratio is better than their energy counterparts that are being nerfed to heck by the current heat system. Make ERPPCs and ERLLASs and such more heat efficient, and you'll see people start to move away from heavy, highly ammo-dependant ballistics builds naturally.

I know -- people will say "But what about sniping and poptarting! We don't want that to come back! That's what the PPC nerfs were for in the first place!" I hate to break it to you -- as long as the maps allow for long-range combat, and for limited tactical means to approach the enemy, you're going to have long-range combat no matter what. Try packing 3 ERPPCs in River City or Frozen City or even parts of Crimson Strait -- any team with a shred of tactics will tear you apart with short-range weapons in no time.

Like I said, I was trying to champion this change some 18 months ago. Don't hold your breath.

[AlmightyAeng]

Rex Budman, on 17 April 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

It's all about scale dude.

Then again I love Autocannons! I think they rock. I don't use them though - I used to use them in my K2 x2 AC5 x4ML - was once a good build.

A Firebrand of tonnage equal to your K2 with AC5x2 6xML still is

[Joseph Mallan]

Rex Budman, on 17 April 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

It's all about scale dude.

Then again I love Autocannons! I think they rock. I don't use them though - I used to use them in my K2 x2 AC5 x4ML - was once a good build.

I'm an AC10 and 20 guy myself.

Kjudoon, on 16 April 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

LOL... no, I'm not being sarcastic or mocking. I'm just asking the logical question. If AC2s are now garbage, what will replace them?

Back on TT I used PPCs... but Hard points kinds mess that up here!

[Eglar]

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 16 January 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

what the (), in my jm6-s armeod with 4 mdlaser and 3 ac 5 with 240 ammo and xl 265 i just did 5 kills and 1400 damage!!!!!!!!



what the()i did 1400 damage with ac 5 in a 65 tons!!!!! this is overpowered!!!!!! nerf ac 5 now!!!!!!

ac 2 ac 5 and ultra ac 5 are overpowered compared to gauss, in order to understand that you must compare builds

DUAL GAUSS JAGERMECH VS 3 AC 5 + 4 MDLAS JAGER

i choose the ac sniper version

2 GAUSS + 4 MDLASER CATAPHRACT 3D VS 3 ULTRA AC 5 + 3 MDLASER MUROMETS

i choose the ac version

and..........just for a second............consider how much damage without overheating a Victor 9b with 3 ac 2, 825 ammo and 19 double heat sinks can do

12 damage each second without overheating for at least 15 seconds, at 720 meters and with 2000 rangE!!!!!

AC 5 AND UAC5 HEAT FROM 1 TO 2

AC5 AND UAC5 RELOAD FROM 1.5 TO 2.0

AC 2 RELOAD FROM 0.52 TO 0.75

AC 2 SPEED FROM 2000 TO 1500


otherwise the gauss is useless



**** 1400 damage with 3 ac 5 boat is silly

lol@ the reasoning

[Yalan]

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 16 January 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

what the (), in my jm6-s armeod with 4 mdlaser and 3 ac 5 with 240 ammo and xl 265 i just did 5 kills and 1400 damage!!!!!!!!



what the()i did 1400 damage with ac 5 in a 65 tons!!!!! this is overpowered!!!!!! nerf ac 5 now!!!!!!

ac 2 ac 5 and ultra ac 5 are overpowered compared to gauss, in order to understand that you must compare builds

DUAL GAUSS JAGERMECH VS 3 AC 5 + 4 MDLAS JAGER

i choose the ac sniper version

2 GAUSS + 4 MDLASER CATAPHRACT 3D VS 3 ULTRA AC 5 + 3 MDLASER MUROMETS

i choose the ac version

and..........just for a second............consider how much damage without overheating a Victor 9b with 3 ac 2, 825 ammo and 19 double heat sinks can do

12 damage each second without overheating for at least 15 seconds, at 720 meters and with 2000 rangE!!!!!

AC 5 AND UAC5 HEAT FROM 1 TO 2

AC5 AND UAC5 RELOAD FROM 1.5 TO 2.0

AC 2 RELOAD FROM 0.52 TO 0.75

AC 2 SPEED FROM 2000 TO 1500


otherwise the gauss is useless



**** 1400 damage with 3 ac 5 boat is silly

I have a SS somewhere of a 6 ML cicada somewhere getting a nearly 2000 damage game and I have had many ~1000 damage games in my 6 ML firestarters. We should add ML into the list of weapons needing a nerf. It was definitely the MLs and not the ballistics in your build that were OP.

Edited by Yalan, 17 April 2014 - 07:42 AM.