19 replies to this topic

[stalima]

ok so i just looked at a picture of the clan nova on sarna

http://www.sarna.net...a_internals.jpg

now, i dont know about you but to me that looks like 12 laser ports on the arms and that doesnt even look like full possible armament either

and the prime variant also holding 12 ER medium lasers, now if you thought a good old hunchhback 4P did alot of pewpew...

that being said this thing is likely to melt itself in seconds

Edited by stalima, 16 January 2014 - 12:25 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

What you really want to be looking at is the technical readout for the 'Mech, which is viewable here.

Note that not all of the configurations (the OmniMech equivalents of "variants", as far as MWO is concerned) listed may not be available in MWO, due to its using the BattleTech timeline to determine such things.
The Prime, A, B, C, D, and S are the configurations that exist as of 3050 in BattleTech, and are thus fair game for MWO at this time.
Note also, that the base equipment (the section above the "Configuration Prime" section in the first link) is currently expected to be fixed and immutable - no changing Engine type or rating, Structure type, Armor type or distribution, etc.

That being said, here is how ghost heat (technically, "heat scaling") in MWO works, with a useful table form being available here.
If the Clan ER Medium Laser shares the same Max Alpha Limit as the IS Standard Medium Laser (that is, six weapons firing simultaneously), then firing all 12 of a Black Hawk's CERMLs (which will likely have a much higher base heat generation than the standard IS MLas) simultaneously would indeed very likely cause it to melt itself in very short order (especially if it is done more than once... assuming the 'Mech survives long enough to do it more than once).

[Monky]

You would probably have to fire one arm at a time.... you would be like 3 JR7-F's worth of firepower in 2 rapid succession bursts...

[stalima]

seeing as small lasers dont seem to have ghost heat i think it would feel safer with small lasers... youd probably be afraid of making a misclick in fear of actually causing a supernova...

either way you might need to watch your back a little more closely when these things start running around... 60 damage straight in the back wont feel very nice

[Charons Little Helper]

I wonder if they could change the graphics so that when firing all 12 of the same laser - they come together into a single giant beam - ala Deathstar.

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 16 January 2014 - 02:06 PM.

[FupDup]

In all likelihood, the Clan ERML is very likely if not almost guaranteed to have a max alpha of less than 6. I expect/hope the max alpha to be no lower than 3, though. Although, since they did that to the ISLL...

And since the Nova generated 50% more heat than it could handle in TT's heat system, MWO's weaker DHS will have an even harder time. The bottom line is, mounting more than 8 ERML is simply not going to be effective in MWO, and even 6 will be hard to maintain.

[Sephlock]

FupDup, on 16 January 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

In all likelihood, the Clan ERML is very likely if not almost guaranteed to have a max alpha of less than 6. I expect/hope the max alpha to be no lower than 3, though. Although, since they did that to the ISLL...

And since the Nova generated 50% more heat than it could handle in TT's heat system, MWO's weaker DHS will have an even harder time. The bottom line is, mounting more than 8 ERML is simply not going to be effective in MWO, and even 6 will be hard to maintain.

They're already nerfing the clans so hard, that seems a bit excessive...

[Elkfire]

I have no idea how the thing is going to be at all viable.

Which makes me sad, because my favorite thing in Mechwarrior games has always been laserboats (with an occasional PPC thrown in) due to not having to worry about running out of ammo.

[Blood Rose]

More to the point, in the TT game that thing had ZERO torso twist capability. Unsurprisingly. given its torso position.
In MWO, will PGI reflect this properly, or give it a torso twist? EithNer way will see rage-either: "My Nova cant twist so its usless WAAAAGH! Or My Nova shouldnt be able to twist because it couldnt in the TT, NERD RAGE!

Either way, PGI is bracketed.

[Strum Wealh]

Blood Rose, on 17 January 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

More to the point, in the TT game that thing had ZERO torso twist capability. Unsurprisingly. given its torso position.
In MWO, will PGI reflect this properly, or give it a torso twist? EithNer way will see rage-either: "My Nova cant twist so its usless WAAAAGH! Or My Nova shouldnt be able to twist because it couldnt in the TT, NERD RAGE!

Either way, PGI is bracketed.

The Jenner and Locust would have had the same issue, and each of them has been modified to be able to torso-twist.

Additionally, the MWO Black Hawk artwork released thus far shows a distinct torso joint, indicating that it, too, would be able to torso-twist.

[stalima]

it also shows what looks to be a 13th laser port above the head so perhaps this thing will be rocking a slightly insane 13 lasers with another 2 ballistic/laser points on the side torsos

perhaps you will end up putting 2 large lasers and bunch of smalls in for a rather respectable firepower- heat ratio

[wanderer]

Ghost heat will make this thing burn, because even Clan small lasers will either be ER SL's or pulse SL's- with higher base heat.

More compact DHS will help here, but Clan firepower overall generates more heat, so it's going to be a careful balance. A full ER ML blast from a Nova Prime will likely strain the 'Mech to the limits, if not end up damaging it from overheat (and FFS, don't override if you want a 'Mech afterwards). Mixing ER ML's with ER SL's and some heat sinks will likely help relieve some of that overwhelming problem, and MWO lasers have more reach in any case- even an ER SL will get likely 240m maximum, and the ER ML's are like IS LL's. 3 ERML's and 2 ERSL's per arm, add two more heat sinks perhaps?

[Strum Wealh]

stalima, on 17 January 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

it also shows what looks to be a 13th laser port above the head so perhaps this thing will be rocking a slightly insane 13 lasers with another 2 ballistic/laser points on the side torsos

perhaps you will end up putting 2 large lasers and bunch of smalls in for a rather respectable firepower- heat ratio

That one seems to be purely decorative; the Uller has them too (at the top, between the air-vents & at the side, in a dome below the air-vent and forward of the shoulder joint; the Uller Prime does not mount Small Lasers - or, indeed, any lasers - in those locations), as does the Daishi (six of them are visible clustered around the known weapons in the arm).

[stalima]

well on a side note... 12 flamers! will it finally be enough to make them do damage?!

[MeiSooHaityu]

The Nova in ERMLaser config will definently NOT be an alpha strike mech. It will be a mix of chain fire and group fire. 6 ERMLasers, then another 6.

It might not have the big instant punch of 12 ERMLasers, but with a combo of smaller groups and chains, this thing should put down a good DPS figure.

I think the Nova will be better than people think.

[FupDup]

MeiSooHaityu, on 17 January 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

...

I think the Nova will be better than people think.

I don't (I'm a cynic and theorycrafter).

In TT, the CERML generated 5 points of heat. In MWO, since the Medium Laser and Medium Pulse Laser are 1 point hotter than TT, and since PGI plans to nerf Clan tech, there is a good chance that the CERML might generate up to 6 points of heat in MWO.

Also, firing 6 ERML at the same time is not likely to be allowed (without serious consequences). The Command Chair says specifically that Clans are going to be punished more heavily with ghost heat than the IS. Since the CERML is likely to do more damage than the regular ML, them sharing the max alpha limit of 6 is very unlikely. I'd expect 3-4 for the max alpha.

Additionally, even without ghost heat or base heat increases, firing 6 ERML at the same time would give you 30 heat, which is the same as 2 ERPPCs. Right now, I almost never see mechs with more than 1 ERPPC. Since you have 12 total ERML, that basically gives you as much heat as 4 ERPPCs (volley fired, not alpha'd). The Nova Prime comes with 18 DHS. Back when the 4 PPC Stalker used to roam, it carried 20 DHS. So you've got 50% (or more!) heat output than a 4 PPC Stalker, with slightly less cooling ability, without the high weapon mounts, with less armor, with less range, with more exposure time (beam duration, volley fire), and with less pinpoint damage (beam duration). The total (spread out) damage would certainly be higher, but at that point you're probably having a bad time of your own for various reasons.


In the end, the optimal Nova Prime loadouts in MWO's mechanics are going to carry no more than 8 CERML, and depending on how much they're nerfed they might even just carry 6 (which still does comparable damage to 4 LL).

Edited by FupDup, 17 January 2014 - 05:09 PM.

[NRP]

What if . . . . Clan DHS are actually 2.0?

[FupDup]

NRP, on 17 January 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

What if . . . . Clan DHS are actually 2.0?

18 DHS under current system: (0.2 x 10) + (0.14 x 8) = 3.12 cooling per second, +31.2 capacity

18 DHS under 2.0 system: (0.2 x 18) = 3.6 cooling per second, +36 capacity


Not much of a difference. Plus, since PGI is nerfing Clan tech, giving them better DHS is unlikely anyways.

Edited by FupDup, 17 January 2014 - 05:46 PM.

[Spheroid]

^ I wonder if Clan DHS will get an additional water cooling bonus.

[Josef Nader]

All I know is that the HBK-4P is an awesome mech that works well in MWO and the Nova is carrying a hunch in each fist -and- it can jump. The HBK can spit out around 3-4 blasts from its hunch before it has to retreat to cool down with max efficiencies. The Nova will be hotter, but it also has more heat sinks, so I wager it will be about the same, only with -faster- damage output, as you don't have to wait for the entire cool down to start your second laser blast.

Even going off the IS MLas, 70 damage in around a second from a mech going 86.4 and jumping is phenomenally good.

Edited by Josef Nader, 18 January 2014 - 04:40 AM.