161 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

Deathlike, on 16 January 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

It will kill solo PUGs to build the super-teams.

Darwin would be proud.

Not seeing the downside to an end of bads.

[OneEyed Jack]

Amsro, on 16 January 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Our super leet group rarely has 12 on at the same time, having the option for 2-12 allows us to still play the game together in the same match, more then likely there will be a large group of similar number on the other side to balance.

This will actually bring back more players, your head is in the sand if you think otherwise.

Just keep telling yourself that.

[Zerberus]

Deathlike, on 16 January 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

It will kill solo PUGs to build the super-teams.

Darwin would be proud.

It`s not a solo game, it`s a team-based game.

Therefore, anything that weeds out the egos and rambo wannabes while nuidging those that understand the concepts towards the use of voice comms is a good thing.

As such, I (and others) fail to see the problem. Not to mention the end of solo pugs also means the end of "evil premade" whining, which is long overdue, If we have to lose the whiners to end the whining, I`m definitely ok with that.

Edited by Zerberus, 16 January 2014 - 04:41 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

I think the population will crash if 12 mans are allowed to match up against a mixture of 4 mans and pugs.

Those pre-sales of clan mechs must be feeling a bit shakey now i'm guessing the population is shrinking so much 12 mans can't find teams to play.

but *shrugs* why should I worry

Edited by Cathy, 16 January 2014 - 04:38 PM.

[Roadbeer]

OneEyed Jack, on 16 January 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

Just keep telling yourself that.

I'm betting you're usually the first to the PUGZAPPER when you get Terra Therma, aren't you?

[KHETTI]

Zerberus, on 16 January 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

It`s not a solo game, so where`s the issue?

Dropping solo is an option, so yes it is an issue.

[Solis Obscuri]

Kinda sucks when you have four friends on line with you and someone has to be the odd man out. I think it'd be nice to raise the limit from four again.

[Deathlike]

OneEyed Jack, on 16 January 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

Just keep telling yourself that.

TBH...

In groups, one of the more common issues about the system was that getting 12-mans is a total pain in the arse... because then you're almost forced to play something competitively (as in the normal culture in 12-mans) and random solo players are usually not going to enjoy this.

What also happens is that the 4-man premade limit hurts groups playing together. It's a serious/real thing. Bad enough that we don't have true lobbies... but we have to attempt to sync drop? It doesn't even work as much as some would like.

Back what we had a gaming community (like for my personal example, MSN Gaming Zone)... we had lobbies and solo players played as they will. However, it was always more productive to join a clan... if to learn the game better, but also to enjoy other company.

I know some people are not as sociable and that is a personal preference. Understanding that this is a team game.. teamwork does make a significant difference to the outcome of a match, regardless of how much one person thinks he can kill them all (he cannot).

I'm not going to be happy with the state of solo PUG matches, but having people being teammates that have a clue... that'll make me happier... whether we win or lose.

[Zerberus]

Deathlike, on 16 January 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

TBH...

In groups, one of the more common issues about the system was that getting 12-mans is a total pain in the arse... because then you're almost forced to play something competitively (as in the normal culture in 12-mans) and random solo players are usually not going to enjoy this.
...
I'm not going to be happy with the state of solo PUG matches, but having people being teammates that have a clue... that'll make me happier... whether we win or lose.

This brings up another point, one that of course the "evil premade" lobby will never acknowledge, that the chances of having a large premade on YOUR team increase when there are more large premades....

Butyeah, we know, they`re always only on the other team ....

[Triordinant]

The perfect solution is a premade-free, PUG-only queue. PUGs who don't want to be clay pigeons for premades can simply avoid them and have a much better experience, especially the new players. In the meantime, premades can, for the most part, play with themselves so everybody wins -except those premades who are so lame they can only win against PUGs and almost always lose against other premades.

[Zerberus]

^^ If they don`t mind waiting half an hour for a game, I`m sure this could be done

[Ghogiel]

weight limits on premades come with this change.

ggclose

[Amsro]

OneEyed Jack, on 16 January 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

Just keep telling yourself that.

I'm not telling myself that. How is it I'm delusional when I'm advocating less limits on multi-player interaction?

I will still PUG %50 of the time like I do currently, and be happy knowing Alpha and 3/4 of Beta know what they are doing. And also being challenged vs another skilled team.

Tonnage limits will help lower the overall tonnage you see currently as well. Hoards of people have left since 2-8 man teams became 1-4 or 8 man. Now they are reverting back to a more optimal setup.

[Ryoken]

RapierE01, on 16 January 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

Do we really want and need 12 man Premades vs Pugs? I dont want this. Because it will kill the Fun from the Pugs even with weight limitations. A Premade with Mediums can win against a Pug with Assaults and Heavy.

The 1-4 player limit is just crushing the team play aspect of this game. We need at last 1-6 or 1-8 player groups! So hell yeah I want this!

If you enter a game alone you willingly admit your fate to randomness. It's like flipping a coin. The better players can be on your team, or they can be on the enemy team. It does not matter if they are grouped or not for the single dropping player. For the single dropping player it is irrelevant if the randomly applied odds in or against his favour are applied by single players or by groups.

On another note I really do wonder why people start playing a MMO and then lament about players grouping up and enjoying teamplay. Makes no sense to me. Who drops alone should just accept it is flipping a coin. I do it alot, and it's perfectly fine with that in mind. All those "subjective observations" about how team play ruins a MMO experience are baseless assumptions at best.

[Axeman1]

@Roadbeer

Do you honestly not realize that if PGI allows 8+ premade drops again it will be the final blow to this game? You claim that more people have quit because they aren't able to group up with more than 3 other players at a time (Which isn't even true because of sync drops that aren't hard to perform) but I'd put money on more people having quit after getting pugstomped by 8+ premades for days way back when that was a thing. MMO's currency generation is always catered towards new players (Where most of their money will come from) not current ones. This game has a fleeting player base as-is, if 8+ man drops come back all you're going to have is a handful of die hard battletech fans duking it out until PGI runs out of money and shuts everything down.

[Roadbeer]

Axeman1, on 16 January 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

@Roadbeer

Do you honestly not realize that if PGI allows 8+ premade drops again it will be the final blow to this game? You claim that more people have quit because they aren't able to group up with more than 3 other players at a time (Which isn't even true because of sync drops that aren't hard to perform) but I'd put money on more people having quit after getting pugstomped by 8+ premades for days way back when that was a thing. MMO's currency generation is always catered towards new players (Where most of their money will come from) not current ones. This game has a fleeting player base as-is, if 8+ man drops come back all you're going to have is a handful of die hard battletech fans duking it out until PGI runs out of money and shuts everything down.

The 500+ active members of www.house-marik.net would beg to differ with your assessment. I'm sure the other houses and merc corps feel the same.

[Aluminumfoiled]

*Teamwide* integrated commo would make this issue go away. Talk about splitting the playerbase in deed and attitude.

[Xiang]

Just have 3 drop queues
1 - solo only - no pre-mades (although this could still be gotten around and you end up against a 12 man anyway).
2 - 1 -11 player teams (space filled by other teams or solos) - this way people who want to play solo against pre-mades still can
3 - 12 man only

just a thought....

Xiang

[Mawai]

Wow .. I am not sure if the folks on either side of this argument really get it.

MWO needs to support variable sized groups AND it needs to support the solo player experience. End of story. Losing players from either category in large numbers will hit the MWO revenues no matter which way you look at it.

Large group players have had the 12 man queue to play with. Small group players have had the 4-man group. The only groups affected are 5 to 11 players. Back in 8 v 8 ... it was obvious when you were wiped by an 8-man pre-made. It also wasn't much fun and the same arguments were exchanged on the forums.

The key in this case will be the matchmaker .. one can pray they get it right ... but if done properly then an N-man group should be opposed by a group with N+/-1.

However, tonnage limits may be be a problem when dealing with less than 12 man groups unless a tonnage limit is enforced on any size of team when it is formed. The alternatives would involve forcing folks to swap mechs after the team is formed but before the drop until their team is the correct weight but how they can force folks to change mechs I don't know.

Perhaps they will impose a tonnage limit for EVERY size of group formed ... N * 50 tons for example ... thus all 4 man groups would have a 200 ton limit ... 2 victors with 2 locusts!

It will be interesting to see what PGI does ... but whatever it is I hope that it does not further alienate the remaining MWO players on either side of this discussion.

[Mawai]

Roadbeer, on 16 January 2014 - 07:35 PM, said:

The 500+ active members of www.house-marik.net would beg to differ with your assessment. I'm sure the other houses and merc corps feel the same.

Perhaps ... but only PGI has information on the actual number of folks who are aligned with a faction or merc corp and those who are not. It is quite possible that there are far more solo players out there than those who group up and use teamspeak. If grouped players are 10% of the player base then what you want doesn't matter much, on the hand if grouped players are 90% of the player base then MWO should cater more to folks who like to play in groups. Until PGI offers up some numbers ... I think I will probably just assume that both groups should be heard and opinions weighted equally