137 replies to this topic

[Hotthedd]

I took a break from the game back in September, and came back this month to see what the state of the game was. When I left, matchmaker no longer used class or tonnage for the MM, but DID use Elo (which was supposed to get better over time, as more matches were played).

However, I a consistently playing in matches were there are seasoned veterans and literal first time players in the same drop.

Did PGI just give up on Elo? If so, what is the matchmaker using to determine teams? Are all drops just randomized now?

[Roland]

Hotthedd, on 14 January 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

I took a break from the game back in September, and came back this month to see what the state of the game was. When I left, matchmaker no longer used class or tonnage for the MM, but DID use Elo (which was supposed to get better over time, as more matches were played).

However, I a consistently playing in matches were there are seasoned veterans and literal first time players in the same drop.

Did PGI just give up on Elo? If so, what is the matchmaker using to determine teams? Are all drops just randomized now?

Honestly, I think it's just that there aren't enough players to fill the games.

When I play, even by myself, in any mech class, it'll spin for a long time searching for a game, and then drop into a match with some of the best players in the game, and some folks who obviously don't know how to play at all.. who are driving trial mechs and never targeting anything.

[Mechteric]

In addition to Roland's observations when population is low, its sometimes hard/impossible to tell whether you're actually getting placed against veterans while you have a bunch of rooks, or whether the other team just happens behave more cohesively naturally or due to there being a few 3-4 man groups. One thing I know for sure is that the tonnage discrepancies are a pretty major decider in a lot of games so until that is more balanced its hard to blame Elo for that.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 14 January 2014 - 06:35 AM.

[cheapcamper]

So it's not only me huh...........

[zhajin]

the problem is elo score is team based not player based. this means that it will mix high and low elo players to equal out a mid level player. this and the drop weight issues are pretty common during low population times.

also keep in mind that groups pretty much screw up elo completely.

overall there are too many factors and not enough players to match properly most of the time. some of it I suspect is poor decisions on pgi's part. but mostly its just to complex a system, with too small a player pool.

but overall it still seems better than the day of completely random matching.

Edited by zhajin, 14 January 2014 - 06:36 AM.

[Hotthedd]

I can tell the veterans by recognizing their names from months ago, and by their founders tags.

I can generally tell the new players by their 3PV drones, or if I die, by watching them over the shoulder. Many times they will simply announce "I am a new player".

I agree that tonnage/class/BV or SOMETHING would be fantastic, my question is: Did PGI just scrap Elo altogether or what?

[tayhimself]

Hotthedd, on 14 January 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

my question is: Did PGI just scrap Elo altogether or what?

Why ask the same question when Roland's reply above clearly states what's happening. To reiterate, the games take a while to find and there is a mishmash of player skills because there aren't enough players. As the matchmaker takes longer to find a match, it loosens its weight & Elo matching thresholds resulting in what you are seeing.

[Hotthedd]

tayhimself, on 14 January 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

Why ask the same question when Roland's reply above clearly states what's happening. To reiterate, the games take a while to find and there is a mishmash of player skills because there aren't enough players. As the matchmaker takes longer to find a match, it loosens its weight & Elo matching thresholds resulting in what you are seeing.

Is that the case for certain?
Do we know for a fact that the number of players is THAT low?
If that IS the case, then it would seem that some other sort of MM criteria should be implemented, and PGI should scrap Elo.
Bigger question: If Elo has been scrapped, why not at least announce it?

Lopsided crappy games are NOT going to attract or retain a playerbase, just sayin'.

[VXJaeger]

It's just that ELO + MM can't handle premades too well. So if there's many of them online, they'll **** up whole system.
Besides that, my opinion is that player-based ELO should be kicked to Jupiter from MWO, and go back to tonnage-based MM.
Or atleast give tonnage-based factor priviledge over player-based. This way 800t vs 400t 12-0 stomps should become fewer.

[hellcatq]

I'm totally confused by the matchmaker. For instance just lately I have noticed a 4 man premade of all atlas dc. Somehow the match maker though it would be a good idea to randomly put my atlas dc and two others with that 4 man team so we had nearly two full lances of atlai ddc. Go figure.. Yes we won. No skill involved, just ran the other team over.

Also doesn't matter if I'm playing my light or my atlas, I frequently outscore my team mates and I am not all that skilled.
I wondered about the longer load time as it is way more noticeable now than when I played last year. Now I have time to literally go make some coffee and use the restroom and when I come back sometimes I am still not yet in a game. Also not sure what the poit of the New ready button is. I have only been in a couple matches where it was pressed by all in time to actually save any time. I now no longer even bother pressing it as it is a waste of time and wear an tear on my mouse isn't worth it.

Edited by hellcatq, 14 January 2014 - 07:13 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

Hotthedd, on 14 January 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

Is that the case for certain?
Do we know for a fact that the number of players is THAT low?

No. I rarely see the same people in any given match.

Once in a while I see a familiar name from the forum or the game, but for the most part it's usually different people.

The "low population" myth is just that; an unfounded myth.

There might be low populations in the low and high Elo brackets, but not in the mid-level bracket (which is where I assume I'm at with a W/L ratio hovering around 1.12).

Also, I play solo in PUGs almost exclusively. When you play in a premade, you're bound to see the same faces more regularly.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 14 January 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Bhael Fire, on 14 January 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

No. I rarely see the same people in any given match.

Once in a while I see a familiar name from the forum or the game, but for the most part it's usually different people.

The "low population" myth is just that; an unfounded myth.

There might be low populations in the low and high Elo brackets, but not in the mid-level bracket (which is where I assume I'm at with a W/L ratio hovering around 1.12).

Also, I play solo in PUGs almost exclusively. When you play in a premade, you're bound to see the same faces more regularly.

Okay.
If the population is not low, then Elo is broken or has been stealth-scrapped. It is NOT working as intended. Why wouldn't PGI announce this?

I generally PUG as well, and I realize that Elo does not work well for 12-man matches. This question had nothing to do with that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hotthedd, on 14 January 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Okay.
If the population is not low, then Elo is broken or has been stealth-scrapped. It is NOT working as intended. Why wouldn't PGI announce this?

I generally PUG as well, and I realize that Elo does not work well for 12-man matches. This question had nothing to do with that.

Team average score 1,300 (for instance)8 players around the average 1300(+100) but there are 4 players needing filled and the Elo system places them. 2 players at 2,100 and 2 players at 500. Team balanced. You can drop now!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 January 2014 - 07:28 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

Hotthedd, on 14 January 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

I generally PUG as well, and I realize that Elo does not work well for 12-man matches. This question had nothing to do with that.

When I said premade, I was referring to any premade group....not just the 12-man groups.

Whenever you drop in a group, it makes it harder for Matchmaker to place your group...so you're bound to see other familiar players that are also in groups, mixed in with "filler" solo players of various Elo scores. This is why you see weird mixed up and unbalanced matches from time to time.

The best matches are those filled entirely with solo players. It allows MM to function more accurately because with solo players there's more granularity, and therefore less disparity between each player's Elo score.

[zztophat]

Last 2 matches I played had players admitting to being first timers.

Something does feel a bit off as of late.

[cleghorn6]

In my experience it also depends on your time zone. There are times of the day when I know I need to take a break because watching n00bs fumble about in 15% of your team's firepower gets too much.

Single player PUG is all I play and I live in GMT+8. Your experience may differ.

[Hotthedd]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 January 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

Team average score 1,300 (for instance)8 players around the average 1300(+100) but there are 4 players needing filled and the Elo system places them. 2 players at 2,100 and 2 players at 500. Team balanced. You can drop now!

...except for the fact that that is NOT balanced in a team game that has no tonnage/class or BV restrictions, and a high learning curve.

Bhael Fire, on 14 January 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

When I said premade, I was referring to any premade group....not just the 12-man groups.

Whenever you drop in a group, it makes it harder for Matchmaker to place your group...so you're bound to see other familiar players that are also in groups, mixed in with "filler" solo players of various Elo scores. This is why you see weird mixed up and unbalanced matches from time to time.

The best matches are those filled entirely with solo players. It allows MM to function more accurately because with solo players there's more granularity, and therefore less disparity between each player's Elo score.

I cannot tell you how many times I lobbied for a solo-only queue back in the day...

[Joseph Mallan]

Hotthedd, on 14 January 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

...except for the fact that that is NOT balanced in a team game that has no tonnage/class or BV restrictions, and a high learning curve.


I cannot tell you how many times I lobbied for a solo-only queue back in the day...

You want the game to hold our hand too? I just don't get it if a player base is supposed to be competitive there isn't supposed to be this much whining! There is plenty of Picts of Assault companies losing to a good Mixed company. Its a team game and the better team wins every time.

[Hotthedd]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 January 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

You want the game to hold our hand too? I just don't get it if a player base is supposed to be competitive there isn't supposed to be this much whining! There is plenty of Picts of Assault companies losing to a good Mixed company. Its a team game and the better team wins every time.

No, I do not need anyone to hold my hand. I have been on both sides of the uneven matches.

My point is that consistently uneven matches will drive off the older players while simultaneously discouraging the newer players. It is not a good thing to have.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hasn't drove me off and I am an older player in both years and TiS to this game. What has me going to SWTOR is boredom of having fought the same battle for a year+ now.