91 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

Jay Kerensky, on 19 January 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

You know what Irony is, Baldrick?

Yeah - it's sort of like brassy, only made out of iron.

Even funnier when you miss the real irony

[Abivard]

He is a volunteer mod, who should not have posted what he posted.

IF it is against the rules to even stand on your own base and not move, how is it ok off the base?

It is not, the loop hole that they went to their base and stopped playing was active base defense was deemed by PGI paid staff to not be an excuse for a player to stop playing.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

GRiPSViGiL, on 19 January 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

I think he comprehends just fine since PGI allows him to speak for them. Doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong IT IS OKAY TO HIDE AFTER ENGAGING. So enjoy your wait time when someone does.

Actually not everyone in PGI agrees with the current moderation or how the volunteer mods run wild.

This is especially true in the thread about a marketing firm employed by IGP stealing someone's artwork. Egomane came in talking about all this conspiracy theory bull {Scrap}. It did not sit well with other REAL PGI employees.

So I'd take most of what Egomane says with a microscopic grain of salt.

[MischiefSC]

One thing I see here a lot is a big difference between player experiences in Skirmish. It makes me think that maybe the Matchmaker does work some because I've got hundreds of Skirmish drops at this point and they don't jive with what I've seen from others here.

Skirmish is rarely less than 8 minutes for me. Most are ~10.

I kept a tic-sheet for for 100 drops in Skirmish. Only 6 of them ended with 0 kills on one side, 11 more of them ended with 1-3 kills on one side. Most matches were 8-4 or closer. As I said before, almost all ran 8-12 minutes. I saw a small handful of attempts to hide and run the clock down. I've never seen anyone successfully do so. I'm sure it happens, I've just never seen anyone pull it off.

That's almost exclusively pugging. I was grouped in a 2man or 4man for maybe 20 of those drops.

Hence my experience in Skirmish is very positive, I find it very tactical and even when pugging my teams tend to communicate more and I've seen more complex tactics almost every match. YMMV though I'm sure but for anecdotal evidence I've got a passable sample size. A couple hundred matches in a row without any 'trolling' of any sort going on.... that's a whole new MW:O experience. I highly recommend it.

[Roland]

GRiPSViGiL, on 19 January 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

I think he comprehends just fine since PGI allows him to speak for them. Doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong IT IS OKAY TO HIDE AFTER ENGAGING. So enjoy your wait time when someone does.

No, Egomane was clearly wrong. According to the TOS, if you run off to hide, you can be reported.

And doing so really has no utility in the game, so it's not really defensible.

[Sandpit]

If they're actually fighting there's nothing to report. If they're standing in a single spot without moving and hiding for 8 minutes, that's when you report. A lot of times though the other team doesn't know that you're running around trying to find them. So they say they're going to report.
Reporting someone isn't equivalent to them getting into trouble. Reporting them is like bringing them up on charges. The jury then looks at the evidence (the GMs) and look to see if there's a pattern. If there is they'll take appropriate action.

[RichAC]

Thats what the timer is for. Deal with it. PGI is not going to ban anybody for that. You have to be delusional and totally selfish to think they would.

The guy is playing for K/D, so what. Its your fault you died not his. Its not like he shutdown or ran to hide at the beginning of the match. Maybe he tried to help his team and they all died... Now his k/d should suffer the same fate as yours too because you can't wait 5 mins?

Hiding the stats from the public, only makes people faker. It doesn't stop people from playing for stats. And if there was no stats, even non public ones, there would be even less people playing this game including me. I play for K/D and W/L, and to compare my progress with everything else. Not cbills and xp, which is what suckers play for!

Making stats public would make the game more popular. Only lamers think otherwise. And while they are at it, they should include team kills and FF damage...lol Now thats something worth banning for.

But to get back on point.....Who are you to selfishly tell him to go suicide? He picked a light to go kite people around. Thats how you play a light, you run around and pot shot. OH well...sorry your mech died and sorry you team doesn't have the skills or proper loadout to kill him. If you don't feel like waiting....quit the match and pick a different mech and stop being a whiny baby about it. That turns more people off from the game then anything else.

Edited by RichAC, 19 January 2014 - 02:00 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Roland, on 19 January 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

No, Egomane was clearly wrong. According to the TOS, if you run off to hide, you can be reported.

And doing so really has no utility in the game, so it's not really defensible.

OH NOES! SMART GAMER!!!!!



How about you find the TOS that bans shutting down after fighting, mmkay? This is all I found:

Quote

Non-Participation Abuse
If a player has joined a match, they must have launched the game with intent to play. Players who are not moving, or are otherwise not participating in the spirit of the game, fall under this category. While we all understand the call of nature: Repeated abuse of this behaviour, similarly to 'Mech Suicide and Team Killing, results in an unfair advantage for the enemy teams, and is thus not considered acceptable use. Please keep in mind that idling on your cap point without armour or moving does not constitute a form of tactical "Base Defense".

Nope. looks like you can't report someone for fighting, then refusing to participate in getting stomped just to make a twitchmunchie feel good about themselves by hiding and making them work to find them.

But before you decide to ghost them, remember this:

Quote

Team Treason
Treasonous provision of information to enemy combatants, also known as "bird-doging" is forbidden. This involves a player using the in-game chat to provide the enemy team with the locations of their own team mates. While we appreciate that some players may wish to have a round end early by calling out the location of an AFK team-mate, the risk that this could be used against an active participant of the match to deny them the use of cover and movement makes this a form of a griefing. You may declare a teammate AFK but not their coordinates or position.

Edited by Kjudoon, 19 January 2014 - 02:27 PM.

[Mystere]

Eximar, on 18 January 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

If I'm the last one left in a Skirmish game, I will be looking hard for a solo to kill, without running into the zerg. People will be typing "die with honor" but dying to save them time isn't on my agenda. Disconnect or deal with it.

I was in a 4x1 once and the Opfor demanded that I just give myself up for an easy kill. I retorted with "You can always quit if you can't handle it". I then took my sweet sweet time to kill them all for the win.

(edited for spelling)

Edited by Mystere, 19 January 2014 - 04:12 PM.

[Mystere]

Abivard, on 19 January 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

Egomane needs a lesson in reading comprehension, It specifically states :

Non-Participation Abuse
If a player has joined a match, they must have launched the game with intent to play. Players who are not moving, or are otherwise not participating in the spirit of the game, fall under this category. While we all understand the call of nature: Repeated abuse of this behaviour, similarly to 'Mech Suicide and Team Killing, results in an unfair advantage for the enemy teams, and is thus not considered acceptable use. Please keep in mind that idling on your cap point without armour or moving does not constitute a form of tactical "Base Defense".

the second and last sentence state it clearly, no where does it say if you made an effort and then stop it is ok, the last sentence points out that guarding YOUR cap with an armorless, non moving mech is even a violation.

Is skirmish mode's spirit to avoid combat? no!
The spirit entails fighting til the death, only one team should be standing, all should be trying to fight until the time runs out. Running off and powering down is clearly in violation.

As far as I am concerned, until some other mod or PGI/IGP itself corrects him by issuing an official clarification, Egomane's statement holds.

Edited by Mystere, 19 January 2014 - 03:01 PM.

[Roland]

Kjudoon, on 19 January 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

Nope. looks like you can't report someone for fighting, then refusing to participate in getting stomped just to make a twitchmunchie feel good about themselves by hiding and making them work to find them.

Pretty sure you can report them for running off and disengaging, which is why Paul said he was going to look at the number of reports that folks filed for exactly that.

But hey, if you're right then nothing will happen to you. Roll the dice, take your chances.

[Lukoi Banacek]

GRiPSViGiL, on 19 January 2014 - 12:34 AM, said:

Wut?

So you think they let Mods say things on their own accord without some sort of checks and balances? I'll bet my account it is backed "officially" by PGI's stance.

Mods in all kinds of games offer their opiniond all of the time and are often shown to be mistaken. It happens. I would hope Ego is an expert on the TOS for the forums since that is where he represents PGi. Even then as a volunteer....a human being...he could make mistakes.

My point is he does not represent PGI outside of his mod duties so his interpretation of the game TOS is not necessarily correct. Im not arguing that it is or isnt. Simply that as someone who is NOT an actual PGI rep, his words are opinion only and in no way serve as the gospel according to PGI. See the difference here?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Non-participation is a form of "Griefing," which is reportable.

If someone powers-down in a non-combat zone specifically to avoid dying and to maintain their K/D ratio, then they can be reported for griefing.

If someone initializes combat, scratches several enemies, then hides and powers down in the attempt to harvest assists and not tarnish their K/D ratio, then they can be reported for both griefing and farming.

If someone remains entirely still for nearly the entire match, then only begins to move after 11 of their teammates are dead, then that person can be reported for griefing.

If someone threatens or relentlessly insults you because you are actively fighting or maneuvering in an attempt to fight successfully, and you are not specifically trying to avoid combat, then they can be reported for harassment.



The only situation I can possibly think of where it is acceptable to avoid combat is when your team is winning by several Mechs, the enemy team has only 1 remaining player, and your team decides to avoid combat in an effort to run the clock out and win by points. I say this is acceptable to me because one of the Official Winning Conditions of Skirmish mode is to have more points when the clock runs out.

It would be unacceptable for a single losing player to avoid combat against his 3 remaining opponents because the losing team cannot win by running the clock, and therefore avoiding combat when you're down in points is a deliberate attempt to not try and win - it's a deliberate attempt to Fail the game objective, and intentionally trying to fail the mission is reportable.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 19 January 2014 - 03:40 PM.

[Kjudoon]

How is being forced to charge an enemy that will snuff you in 4 seconds any different from running out of bounds or overheating your mech and killing yourself? The answer? Nothing.

So smart play and preserving personal stats is a form of griefing. Wow... if that's the case this game deserves to die.

[Roland]

Kjudoon, on 19 January 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

So smart play and preserving personal stats is a form of griefing. Wow... if that's the case this game deserves to die.

Your personal stats don't mean anything.

Regardless, if you don't think its against the TOS, then like I said.. roll the dice and take your chances. See what happens.

[MischiefSC]

From a game-management perspective it's either your stats or the game experience of 23 other people. If the idea that your personal stats, which influence nothing, are less important than the time and effort of 23 other people then maybe an offline game would suit you better. In terms of TOS for the game it's not unreasonable to say that if you're the last survivor you need to fight it out. Doesn't mean rush into suicide but actively engage at range, flank, whatever you can do. If you're totally unarmed you can run out of bounds or otherwise 'eject' and quit the match. It's unfortunately that people farming for stats have meant that if you leave while still alive you don't get points but, again, that just reinforces the fact that the enjoyment of the other 23 people in the match mean you have an obligation in a multiplayer game consider your behaviors impact on the other players.

I'm all for the last light kiting and sniping. I've seen it done a few times. I watched 2 Jenners destroy 6 heavies/assaults at the end of a game in Skirmish once, it was amazing. They were patient and surgical. That's quite different from hiding and powering down. Honestly, there needs to be a 'surrender' option when you're the last mech standing and the other team is largely intact.

Until that time though I can see those things being a violation of TOS. Again, I've never seen it done in a match successfully so we are again talking about a once in a blue moon situation but still. Doesn't bother me even if I did see it. I've seen people try and just get found and stomped on.

[Mystere]

Roland, on 19 January 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Regardless, if you don't think its against the TOS, then like I said.. roll the dice and take your chances. See what happens.

I did it once(?) and nothing happened (ie. no PM, no warning, no ban, nada, nil, zip). Does that count?

[Roland]

Mystere, on 19 January 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

I did it once(?) and nothing happened (ie. no PM, no warning, no ban, nada, nil, zip). Does that count?

If you believe it indicates PGI's beliefs on the matter, then like I said, do what ya like.

I've only seen one guy try to hide ever, so it's not really a big issue either way.

[Slepnir]

Shadowglade, on 17 January 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

So, I notice this a lot. In Skirmish mode, why do people threaten to report people for refusing to die and continuing to fight (and win) even if they are the last one standing on their team?

It seems kinda foolish to threaten to report someone for griefing just because they are kicking your butt in a match and you don't like it and they refuse to come out and stand still for you to kill.

What is the point? Isn't the whole point of the mode is to fight until everyone is dead? So why get so upset when someone is continuing to fight and do a good job of it?



Example: Was just in a match on my spider and a number of the enemy mechs left were cored and I was running around taking shots at them. Ran into a full (nearly so) Cataphrat and ran circles around them and cored them and got threatened with a griefing report for fighting.

And I have to say, I was rather pleased with my own team, for a change no one did Team Treason in the match on me, to my team: Thank You.



Edit Reason: I'm a horrible speller apparently in desperate need of sleep.

Well for starters it isn't griefing and PGI will just ignore them if they do report you because your playing by the rules. as long as you engaged the enemy at some time during the match(did damage) and you are the last guy playing hide and seek(like a good light pilot) PGI has already said they are fine with it no matter how much people whine. the rules for skirmish are-destroy the enemy mechs or be the team that has the most kills when the timer runs out . skirmish mode is 15 minutes, if you cant play or wait that long don't play skirmish or kindly exit the match if your dead and use a different mech. Sometimes you can make it work out fantastically(assuming your not with a team of jerks who team treason you to death) I did it in my ravel 3L on crimson straight-last man standing 7 kills, 907 damage with 2 med lasers and 2 streaks, won the match.

[Slepnir]

Quote

If someone powers-down in a non-combat zone specifically to avoid dying and to maintain their K/D ratio, then they can be reported for griefing.

If someone initializes combat, scratches several enemies, then hides and powers down in the attempt to harvest assists and not tarnish their K/D ratio, then they can be reported for both griefing and farming.

Wrong and wrong you really need to read the rules sir including what PGI has already stated IF YOU DID DAMAGE AND ENGAGED THE ENEMY AT ANY POINT IN THE GAME (you participated so non participation does not apply) and then play hide and seek or even power down IT IS NOT GIEFING AND IS NOT A REPORTABLE OFFENSE. get your teams assets out there and find the enemy, that's what your scouts job is, unless of course your one of those nubs who think that you should only bring assault mechs/meta builds to skirmish, then you get what you deserve.

Edited by Slepnir, 19 January 2014 - 05:43 PM.