53 replies to this topic

[Mindwyrm]

I heard in the NGNG interview tonight that Russ Bullock thought that with high heat there should be visual limitations based on how hot you are. He suggested slight obscuring of vision with steam. Or I add, maybe heat shimmer? Russ said he couldn't get any traction with it.

With the current upgrade of heat on PPC's I've read that ghost heat isn't necessary anymore. I'm of that opinion myself. So I'd like to get input on what people think of leaving the weapon heat as is, remove Ghost Heat and replace it with a visual impairment. Possibly have that impairment increase with your heat level, yet decrease slower than your heat.

GO!

[Dymlos2003]

Mindwyrm, on 18 January 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

I heard in the NGNG interview tonight that Russ Bullock thought that with high heat there should be visual limitations based on how hot you are. He suggested slight obscuring of vision with steam. Or I add, maybe heat shimmer? Russ said he couldn't get any traction with it.

With the current upgrade of heat on PPC's I've read that ghost heat isn't necessary anymore. I'm of that opinion myself. So I'd like to get input on what people think of leaving the weapon heat as is, remove Ghost Heat and replace it with a visual impairment. Possibly have that impairment increase with your heat level, yet decrease slower than your heat.

GO!

If there was steam or visual obscuring when there is high heat, people would cry like there was no tomorrow. Just like the glass implementation there were actual people whining about it.

[627]

This was suggested since closed beta, a "soft" punishment for high heat before the shutdown - like obscuring view, slower movement or pilot effects (blurry vision for example). There were drawbacks in TT for high heat before you shutdown, even harsh one like possible ammo explosions (which I wouldn't be a fan of).

If they finally get a system like that to work, everybody would care much more about heat. Now it's just fire as long as you don't overheat and count the seconds until you can alpha again...

Edited by 627, 18 January 2014 - 11:49 PM.

[Mindwyrm]

There's whiners no matter what's done. I'm still whining about the gauss charge up.

I'd like what you think about it.

Edited by Mindwyrm, 18 January 2014 - 01:07 AM.

[Modo44]

Glass may end up pretty silly with all cockpits open at the back.

[NextGame]

theres enough unnecessary graphical effects that affect visual clarity as it is already we do not need more, and yes ghost heat needs to go

Edited by NextGame, 18 January 2014 - 01:15 AM.

[EvilCow]

MW4 had (very) slower movements and flickering HUD when hot, it is not a new idea and it worked well.

Visual obstruction would be not well received but vapor coming out of overheated mechs would be nice.

[Mindwyrm]

As a side not. To Russ Bullock himself. Good job on the interview. I was especially pleased that you were willing to answer questions with "I don't know" rather than talking out of your AZZ or making ***** up.

Wow. The profanity filter actually filters the Scottish/Irish word for poop.

Edited by Mindwyrm, 18 January 2014 - 01:31 AM.

[Dymlos2003]

EvilCow, on 18 January 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

MW4 had (very) slower movements and flickering HUD when hot, it is not a new idea and it worked well.

Visual obstruction would be not well received but vapor coming out of overheated mechs would be nice.

I don't recall MW4 having that. I know MW3 had a fuzzy HUD when you were hot but that's the only Mechwarrior that had that.

[EvilCow]

MW4 Mercs had all the things I mentioned.

[Oriius]

Within the past few days I have come back to the game from a break away and basically in terms of heat nothing has changed. I think the issue is in the high threshold low dissipation.

A mech with a 250 engine with double heatsinks has at least 60 heat threshold once you have elite level, which seems too high to me honestly, I ran a mech with ppc's on just engine heat sinks with little to no issues.

If I alpha'd and it got me to 25 of 30 heat, which let's say slowed me down by some %, made my ret flicker and/or wobble, and maybe obscured my vision a little, I would need to question if that action is a wise one to take at any given time.

will it kill them? Am I in a safe place to risk that, will the end result be that I leave myself open to harsh counter attacks? Should it go over that 30? I should be in real trouble, no turning the mech back on, the shutdown should be long and painful, ammo should be at risk, internals too.

In my opinion a system with a low threshold and somewhat higher dissipation would push the game to a more interesting direction, I'd hope towards the thinking mans shooter.

Though don't get me wrong I don't for one second think it would fix all of the balance issues. Not even close, it might even make the game worse by some peoples standards, it may slow it down more, cause people to use long range weapons even more so. As i say just my opinion that it would be better.

I don't think there is an easy fix overall to balance, but I think whatever the system is, it needs to be clear and easily understood by all, having to dig though a forum to even find out about ghost heat does not seem like a well thought out plan.

Edited by Oriius, 18 January 2014 - 01:37 AM.

[Klappspaten]

I really dont want to see THAT shitstorm. Will make 3PV look like a mild summer rain.

[MustrumRidcully]

Actual penalties for high heat? Where do I sign?

[Flying Judgement]

its a good idea if the PPC would spread bettween sections doing 5 than 3 and 2 damage to the section next to it. (as some one sugested)

Plus a vizual clue when to rush the boat, ghost heat wouldnt be nesessary. But is it true?

The only 3 thing what its ceeping at bay is the dual AC20 and the quad or more PPC Large Laser. And creating lot other unessesary conflicts.

but then they probably need to increas the heat of PPCs a bit more. or implementing the mentioned spread or other complicated system....

but what about the AC40 ? is it time to get use to it? We may just going to see Quad Ultra AC20 builds soon.

6 large laser is funn it never realy stand a chanse.

Still Large Lasers may need some heat increas but IMO they are the most balanced weapons at the moment with ghost heat.

why dont they remove ghost heat from more weapons and keep it on ones whats working good ?

like removeing it from AC2 s med lasers hummm..............

the sneaky nova gona have 12 medium lassers XD thats a 60 alpha strike on ur back armour. without ghost heat even an attas would fall from that. What do u all propose instead?

[Mindwyrm]

First off FJ, I think the gamers would have to recode everything to get PPC's to damage other areas. Imagine hitting a zombie centurian in the CT and the damage spreading OUT to the legs and head.

I might be to intoxicated, but I don't know what you mean by "rush the boat"

I'm not a battletech guru, and I could be wrong, but I don't think there's any mech that could run 4x UAC 20.

As for removing Ghost Heat from some and keep it on others.... Well, Ghost heat is $4IT. It's obviously a jury rigged system that was put together to counter the 4-5x PPC, the 6x LL, and AC40 builds. The problem is it is vague and hard to understand for new people, and badly explained in general. In the end we just ended up with "don't make these builds or bad things will happen" I, and many others, are looking for ways for PGI to REMOVE ghost heat.

The visual impairment is what Russ Bullock suggested. I like the suggestion and started this thread because of it. I'd even like to see the Steam or Heat shimmer go down at a slower rate than your heat bar. Specifically so that if you alpha 4x PPC you can't see anything for 30 seconds or so. Alpha should not be the be all end all of the game. I think it should be a "oh {Scrap}, it i'm dead anyways might as well take someone with me" button, or a "YOU LEAVE MY BUDDY ALONE!!" button.

As for the Nova having 12 ML. That's 48 heat. With a visual Impairment that would blind you for a good while. Yea, you'd take out that atlas, and then die because you can't see.

Oriius makes a good point about the heat threshold reaching 60. Tweaking the thresholds would also do a lot for that as well. If you take the Nova example, Cap threshold at 50, an alpha would put you immediately at 98% heat. With Steam/Shimmer you could effectively be blind at that heat. A person would have to think tactically and weigh whether the situation merits using that alpha, or even if it's worth bringing that load-out to the field.

The only thing left is the AC40 builds. As far as I'm aware only the K2 and Jagermechs can load it. As far as I've seen Ghost Heat hasn't made a dent in that build. Many people still use it. I even see groups of 2-3 running it together and shredding multiple lances. I'm holding my thoughts on that a bit to see what the results of slowing projectile speed does. There are better ways, in my opinion, for PGI to counter AC40 mechs than Ghost Heat though.

Edited by Mindwyrm, 18 January 2014 - 03:17 AM.

[Chemie]

we need more penalty for high heat so that AC20/AC5 are finally used

[Fooooo]

dymlos2003, on 18 January 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

If there was steam or visual obscuring when there is high heat, people would cry like there was no tomorrow. Just like the glass implementation there were actual people whining about it.

Meh, have you played mech 3 or 4 ?

When you get high heat your HUD sort of goes all pixely etc. Basically its hard to see exactly where you are aiming or wtf is going on with new info as you are not exactly getting it.

I would not mind this to be honest.

To be really honest I would not mind proper heat penalties either.......like slower movement/torso movement/aim movement , longer weapon cooldown etc etc.

The glass and other types of penalties are different imo as they somewhat remove skill from the equation in a way.

If it makes it harder to see than we can now its a little silly.

IMo the shake and explosion effects are already too much. Whoever gets the first shot basically renders the other guy almost useless unless he already had a bead. (and can then "guess" with accuracy where your CT or dmged locations actually are.)


If you cant tell I hate games that give whoever gets the first shot the 100% advantage with shake or bluring effects as it encourages camping the best spots.

Edited by Fooooo, 18 January 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[FupDup]

Now. if only we didn't reach high levels on the heat bar just by firing an average loadout 3-4 times, and linger at that high level for a few moments due to slow-as-molasses dissipation.

[Wolfways]

Because lasers need another nerf...

[Viges]

Chemie, on 18 January 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

we need more penalty for high heat so that AC20/AC5 are finally used

its suggested to trade ghost heat for visual penalties