168 replies to this topic

[Darth Futuza]

Can I lodge my complaint? I want PPCs unnerfed. Bring me back my MW2 ppcs.

[darkchylde]

Mystere, on 18 January 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Rephrasing my now (in)famous words:

Nerf this, nerf that, I am really sick of this nerf {Scrap}!

My awesomes are worse than they have ever been due to all the nerfs to PPCs.

Then I suggest you stop using the word.

[Mystere]

Darth Futuza, on 18 January 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Can I lodge my complaint? I want PPCs unnerfed. Bring me back my MW2 ppcs.

This I want.

darkchylde, on 18 January 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

Then I suggest you stop using the word.

Only if you'd stop asking for them.

[Roughneck45]

I think we need an SRM buff before we start thinking about a PPC nerf.

[darkchylde]

Mystere, on 18 January 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

This I want.




Only if you'd stop asking for them.

Show, where I asked for a nerf?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Roughneck45, on 18 January 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

I think we need an SRM buff before we start thinking about a PPC nerf.

Can't buff it until you fix it. Which PGI seems incapable of. Honestly I'd rather they put SRM's back the way they were at this point if they can. I don't care if the damage was bugged. Much more fun game at that point.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 18 January 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

could just remove the normal PPC completely.

Then the erppc would be the only choice, it'd be a lot hotter to handle, and brawlers would have a lot mroe opportunity to shine with pulse lasers & such at closer ranges.

probably would be the best & easiest way to fix the current meta. The normal PPC is an ERPPC for all intents at 90-600m, and since a huge amount of battles take place in this range, and since you are getting such incredible heat efficiency from the PPC and the ac/5/uac5 class, or even gauss, it's fairly obvious why everyone is migrating into this platform of choice, because right now it is very powerful.

again its down to some systems still bypassing heat mechanics that force a pacing & rate of fire while being able to move 20-40 dmg in very fast intervals, ie every 1.5 seconds 20 dmg, every 3 seconds 40 dmg with quad ac/5 is basically a dual ac/20 jaegger without ghost heat for example.

if we had annihalator the quad ac/5 or uac/5 with current mechanics would devour this game, it might actually be good for the game right now as a pack of 8 quad uac/5 annihalitors is probably the only thing that could brawl/rush a mob of jumpsnipers.

if it werent for the jumpjets that is. jets continue to feed the hide behind indestructible object and fire meta, their design & their lack of heat penalties both support this meta.

ECM feeds this meta by shielding.

people seemingly are not willing to lose ECM and have lrms more useful for flushing. lrms with scouts and brawlers should be able to TAG & fflush stationary jumpsnipers. rock/paper/scissors.

current game design with ECM & ecm stacking, cover & radar mechanics is not allowing for this nearly as well as it should.

human psychology - hide, jump together, stay together, focus, and really here we are, PGI was forwarned many times, and we face exactly what we had in mech4 - dual gauss peeking wack-amole with highlanders instead of dual gauss Madcat MKII

btech:3025 jumpjets. collisions, DFA. tuning to ECM & scouting & LRM mechanics. nurfing of the PPC & the ac/uac5

for the past week ive toyed with various wierd mechs, awesomes, etc, stock type builds. W/L around 50%.

last night i min.maxed with 2 jumpsniping victors. we lost 2 matches of 20.

combat is too static and slow. lack of tonnage limits is a significant factor. 1-2 assaults and 1-2 hvy per team would see the meta shfit quite a bit towards more mobile and fun battles. stuff like CTF would really help too.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Still do not understand why we have such a damn high heat cap. That could be an easy fix to the problem too.

But Paul "I can't seem to remove my head from my rear cavity" Inouye refuses to see it.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 18 January 2014 - 01:51 PM.

[Abivard]

JohnnyWayne, on 18 January 2014 - 04:27 AM, said:

Energy weapons over all especially Pulse lasers suffer from the bad heat system in mwo. PPC's "outperform" (not really though) because of their synergetic effect with low heat direct fire high DPS weapons, aka all AC`s.

AC's are cool, bring up high DPS in open combat and ammo explosions are no issue. If your armor gets destroyed, your internals will follow soon too. In "popup" engagements they are just backup weapons.

PPC's are hot like **** (especially with these laughable heatsinks and tabletop values) and put ab a good load of damage in short "popup" engagements. Loosing heatsinks is really an issue here. In open battles they are just backup weapons.

So I personally see two issues here:

Popup engagements: can be one sided forced by the use of Jumpjets. Jumpjets are too strong and if you stick to TT you can't fire your weapons midair. For MWO, I'd increase fall damage return to the former shake, give jumpjets a base heat they always generate and if you overheat midair they turn off and you fall down.

High DPS on smaller ballistics: Small ballistics are meant to deal less DPS for greater range than the bigger ones. Currently thats hardly the case. Weapon cycles are ~ 4 seconds and they should be brought to that. After that they can be rebalanced.


The heat system in general needs an overhaul, to make energy weapons more viable. Heat is currently a too limiting factor.



You had me until the LRM's. If you have LRM - heavy enemys you have already a problem. We don't need to worsen this. Good player can already do terrible things with LRM's, but its a weapon that depends on the team. Poptarting is the reason they suck at the moment (no time to lock on).

Lights can out run LRM's at present speed, that is why I suggested that. If the speed is increased so that LRM's can actually hit a light, that would be a good thing. it would not change very much for any other mechs.

[JohnnyWayne]

If LRM would stick more to the ground and not try to hit from above there wouldn't be an issue. But, to some extend I think lights need to outrun them, such as any other weapon. Speed is life for them and just think what 40-60 damage would do to a jenner... ct - cored, "gg close" i'd say...

To be honest it would change lrm for me. I don't use AMS I perfer skill to evade them than some stupid mechanic I don't need for any other weapon in game... Skill won't help anymore then if they get a 100% hit...

@Colonel Pada Vinson: I have enough of you now. I want to inform you that I already thought about a way to post in your name inappropriate content containing at least 2 dudes in sexual intercourse (I don't plan to, just to make this clear. I just thought about it, no joke!). Just to not see that stupid laughable ideas you leave behind on your crouch through the "ppc is so pad QQ" threads.

You want to remove the PPC? ECM still an issue?! DUDE! So much ******** and wasted characters for such nonesense.

You see the issue with jumpjets and cry for a PPC nerf? So that the next direct fire weapon, with even higher dps mounted to jumpjets will become the new fotm? You see the synergy between ballistics and PPCs and cry for a PPC nerf? So you just want to destroy the PPC on your crusade of ridiculousness instead of fixing the actual issues? At least try to think.

You have the right, but not the obligation to have an opinion, so if you lack the slightest clue, then JUST SHUT UP!

I expect to not see this ******** from you anymore in this forum. Srsly, I can't belive it...

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 18 January 2014 - 02:49 PM.

[Stygian Steel]

its not the Dev's fault, they;ve tried its the players in this game refuse to budge on what they think is the best build 60% of them don;t care about fun, only winning, nerfing won't work as we've seen only by buffing something else to where the forums would cry about it instead will ppcs be moderated

[Mystere]

Stygian Steel, on 18 January 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

its not the Dev's fault, they;ve tried its the players in this game refuse to budge on what they think is the best build 60% of them don;t care about fun, only winning, nerfing won't work as we've seen only by buffing something else to where the forums would cry about it instead will ppcs be moderated

I really can't quite understand the overwhelming desire of some players to win at any cost in this game. We don't have real competitions. There are no trophies or medals to be had. There are no cash prizes to win. And the only recognition one can get is nothing more than just bragging rights.

Isn't playing just for fun no longer in vogue these days?

[o0Marduk0o]

Yeah, buff my lovely AC10!

[Asmosis]

group ac10 with ppc's for ghost heat, problem solved.

[Krujiente]

Pfft its not the PPCs, I use PPCs on energy boats so I can actually hit thats at range, do you know hard to keep a sustained burn time weapon on something at past 500? Unless its holding still you're gonna spread the damage around, which is only really good against lights because its a hitscan weapon.

Like it what has been, its PPCs mixed with Autocannons. This crying about PPCs when they have the same tonnage to damage ratio as an AC20 along with the same cooldown at the cost of either a lot of waste heat and a minimum range or a whole helluvalot of waste heat. My BJ-3 has to use something to do damage at range y'know. Its more the combination of a high heat weapon being shot at the same time as a low heat weapon to get around the heat issues in the game. SRMs and pulse lasers need a buff because even though pulse lasers would still have a burn time, it'd be nice to have a weapon under 7 tons that is effective in the grand scheme of things. The choice between a LPL and an ERPPC should be "do I wanna shoot close or far" not "Oh ERPPCs are better for brawling so thats a no-brainer"

[Radar Glitch]

A friend of mine said it best, I think: What we have is a pretty good shooter, but it's not Battletech.

I catch myself far too often wondering why I'm utilizing tactics while half of my "team" is either sniping or waiting for the CLG to start to get easy kills.

I am turning to the PPC, now that they've reduced the AC20s effective range. This isn't the only change I've noticed with the AC20 recently...

If more tactics were being used there would be more weapon systems being used more effectively. The fact that one weapon system (or combo) seems to shine over the others, I think, is a result of repetitive game-play.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

The complaint of the original poster of now he thinks 2 AC5/ppc is new meta is exacty why nerfs DO NOT WORK.

Somebody is always looking for the BEST combo to make high damage/low risk builds.

There have been several good suggetsions from hardpoint restrictions to weapon divergence (shots spread).

But it always ends up being NERF NERF NERF give it lots of heat and lower damage!

What this does is destroy any non boat build that uses said weapons, And is why many chassis are no longer viable. And why some mechs are DOA. Even though they CANNOT boat weapons.

Please please use one of the other suggested ways of fixing the high pinpoint damage boating alpha OTHER than grind another weapon into the ground.

THis current meta of nerf everything into the ground so nothing can be boated because somebody did is what is going to destroy this game faster than anything else.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 18 January 2014 - 04:17 PM.

[Khobai]

Agreed. Nerfing into the ground clearly doesnt work. Thats why I think a give and take solution would work best.

Reduce the pinpoint on autocannons and PPCs by having them spread damage around more (burst fire and splash damage). But then give autocannons the ability to use different types of ammo. So autocannons would lose some pinpoint damage but also gain some versatility in having different ammo types like precision rounds, tracer rounds, caseless ammo, etc... Likewise the PPC might gain an EMP hud disruption ability similar to MW4.

[lsp]

Don't need to nerf ppcs, just need to stop nerfing everything till it sucks so bad that there's only one or two real choices. People used to take LRM's, because they used to be good until PGI nerfed them. Smae can be said about every other weapon in the game, because instead of learning to adapt, people cry for nerfs. This game used to be alot more fun during closed beta than it is now. I have no issue with the way ppc's are now, I even think that they run too hot. What I do have a problem with is things like lowering the speed on the ac20 and 10, adding a charge time like mega man to the GR, and other ******** things of a similar nature.

In the real world, you always take what is the most effective and you see that reflection in competitive games. SO you can nerf all you want, and unless tey make every weapon a mirror image of one another, there will always be a prefered weapon. Wether it's Lrm's Mlas, Llas, ppc's, GR or AC will depend on how crappy PGI makes certian ones with their nerfs. I say why not bring all the weapons up to a competitive level, instead of trying to bring everything down to the lowest common denominator, that's no fun, and it's a stupid solution.

Edited by lsp, 18 January 2014 - 04:38 PM.

[Dymlos2003]

How about you, the players, learn to play other builds. The only ones making the game boring are you guys.