168 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

wanderer, on 21 January 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

It ain't hard, people.

The problem- and it has been a problem with any weapon in MWO that manages it - is that the ability to easily focus a large amount of damage on a single spot faster than anyone can spread that damage is optimal, because we all know that when you can, coring someone is easymode.

You sir get it!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

You sir get it!

You didn't read his post if you are agreeing with him. He is saying it's broken.

[Rushin Roulette]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

What we need to do in MW:O is grow a pair and accept dying gracefully like Khan Ignotus did when he rounded a corner and died in an eye blink in an Alpha from my Atlas!Why people are so hung up on how they die in a game bewilders me! Sad days when we can't accept that weapons are made to hurt if not kill people in these games. Die like a man, and hit launch at te end of the match why don'tcha.

And he will be fondly remembered. His final words will go down in the history books for centuries to come.

"Ohhh Fuuuu...."

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 21 January 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

Yeah you aren't looking at it from the perspective that we need to create fun game play that promotes keeping and fostering new players.

Without a respawn mechanic (which I'm against), we need to create a situation where your one life can be meaningful without having to worry about one mech killing you with a well placed dual PPC/AC/20 shot when you round a corner.

I'm over you and your stupid TT analogies.

Thats why I used a stupid MW:O Analogy so you could try to keep up! Your toon's one life is meaningless, get a grip on that. If you make a mistake you pay for it, be graceful in your defeat, and hope you get the opportunity to avenge the death another day. Like I said, I killed Khan Ignotus in a single Alpha. To this day we are still friends. You play a game where massed fire can kill you in 3-7 seconds and you want it to be "friendly", A lucky hit can kill you without a whimper, and you want it to be friendly? The two just don't go together. You want to play a game of combat be ready to die in a loud gratuitous manner on occasions or uninstall.

When I die like that I normally quip, "That didn't go as planned!" or "Ouch." And then sit there and wait to the end of match to see how the team does.

[kapusta11]

The problem with PPCs is that they are dirt cheap, you put 2 of them, upgrade your internal heatsinks to doubles and that's all you have to do in order to use them effectively. Changing heat system to low heat cap - high dissipation (with external heatsinks providing more bonuses) is the only solution.

Edited by kapusta11, 21 January 2014 - 07:15 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 21 January 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

You didn't read his post if you are agreeing with him. He is saying it's broken.

What he said is broken is the Pin point damage not the amount of damage. I can't stand the pin point damage, but the huge Alpha... I been doing that since CB, with little to no complaints cause I have a mix o weapons that don't put 60+ damage on one pixel.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

Thats why I used a stupid MW:O Analogy so you could try to keep up! Your toon's one life is meaningless, get a grip on that. If you make a mistake you pay for it, be graceful in your defeat, and hope you get the opportunity to avenge the death another day. Like I said, I killed Khan Ignotus in a single Alpha. To this day we are still friends. You play a game where massed fire can kill you in 3-7 seconds and you want it to be "friendly", A lucky hit can kill you without a whimper, and you want it to be friendly? The two just don't go together. You want to play a game of combat be ready to die in a loud gratuitous manner on occasions or uninstall.

When I die like that I normally quip, "That didn't go as planned!" or "Ouch." And then sit there and wait to the end of match to see how the team does.

I hate to to say this, but I don't care about you. Your viewpoint is so flawed and outdated, it's honestly one of the things that is killing this game.

If we did everything the way you want it, there would be 5 people playing this game.

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

What he said is broken is the Pin point damage not the amount of damage. I can't stand the pin point damage, but the huge Alpha... I been doing that since CB, with little to no complaints cause I have a mix o weapons that don't put 60+ damage on one pixel.

THEY CAN'T FIX PINPOINT DAMAGE.

Jesus freaking christmas. OF COURSE IT'S PINPOINT DAMAGE.

Are you freaking dense man?

No one cares about PPC's if the shots go every which way, and hit random locations.

But PGI in the infinite wisdom picked a broke down gutter trash engine called Cryengine 3 and can't make a proper convergence system.

Paul has said it multiple times.

So IN LIEU OF THAT, we need to look at changing how weapons work.

The easiest of which is creating situations where the damage is either spread or done in a burst.

You'd think with 15,000 posts you'd understand this stuff by now.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 21 January 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

I hate to to say this, but I don't care about you. Your viewpoint is so flawed and outdated, it's honestly one of the things that is killing this game.

What is killing the game is taking the punch out of combat. ou wanna fighing game with feather dusters and squirt guns. I don't. I Haven't for 35+ Years. So if wanting to feel in danger in a combat game is wrong maybe children shouldn't try to play it.

Quote

If we did everything the way you want it, there would be 5 people playing this game.

The same could probably said for yor way of thinking, so maybe its good that we have different views.

Quote

THEY CAN'T FIX PINPOINT DAMAGE.

Jesus freaking christmas. OF COURSE IT'S PINPOINT DAMAGE.

Are you freaking dense man?

No one cares about PPC's if the shots go every which way, and hit random locations.

But PGI in the infinite wisdom picked a broke down gutter trash engine called Cryengine 3 and can't make a proper convergence system.

Paul has said it multiple times.

They could to if players weren't such whiners!

Quote

So IN LIEU OF THAT, we need to look at changing how weapons work.


The easiest of which is creating situations where the damage is either spread or done in a burst.

You'd think with 15,000 posts you'd understand this stuff by now.

Because I have almost 16K posts does not mean I will change my opinion cause it makes people uncomfortable. I like seeing FLD with DpS and RNG damage. At 48 years old I think I know what I like and don't like, in spite of present (possibly)Popular opinion.

[EvilCow]

Short range weapons are a bit lacking, by adjusting SRMs and pulse lasers the meta would shift to a more balanced mix without having to nerf this or that.

I would keep PPCs, ACs, Gauss and Large/Medium Lasers as "references" and adjust other weapons around them. For example:
Pulse Lasers: 50% duration decrease
MGuns: fine
LBX10: Damage increase 10->12
SRMs: Damage increase 2->2.5
ERPPC: small heat decrease
etc

Then let thing run for 2-4 weeks and assess the need for more tweaks.

[Effectz]

PPC's do not need a nerf,they need to fix SRM hit reg(Quite frankly I don't even think they know whats wrong)Buff LPL and buff LB10x,this would give people an incentive to close the distance and brawl.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 January 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

What is killing the game is taking the punch out of combat. ou wanna fighing game with feather dusters and squirt guns. I don't. I Haven't for 35+ Years. So if wanting to feel in danger in a combat game is wrong maybe children shouldn't try to play it.

The same could probably said for yor way of thinking, so maybe its good that we have different views.



They could to if players weren't such whiners!



Because I have almost 16K posts does not mean I will change my opinion cause it makes people uncomfortable. I like seeing FLD with DpS and RNG damage. At 48 years old I think I know what I like and don't like, in spite of present (possibly)Popular opinion.

You don't seem to understand that I'm constantly changing my point of view based on what PGI is capable of doing.

That's why you are a problem. You are 50 years old and stuck in the past.

I'm trying to figure out ANYTHING that will work to make the game better. If it means changing weapons up so that people don't immediately die 5 seconds after engaging in combat, I'm good with that.

But I can tell by your thinking that it's ok that a module that requires no skill, no crit space, no heat and no tonnage should randomly one shot people, that you have no idea what you are doing at this point.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 21 January 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

You don't seem to understand that I'm constantly changing my point of view based on what PGI is capable of doing.

That's why you are a problem. You are 50 years old and stuck in the past.

I'm trying to figure out ANYTHING that will work to make the game better. If it means changing weapons up so that people don't immediately die 5 seconds after engaging in combat, I'm good with that.

But I can tell by your thinking that it's ok that a module that requires no skill, no crit space, no heat and no tonnage should randomly one shot people, that you have no idea what you are doing at this point.

Sure it should, Even when I am not using them! I died exactly one time to arty. Once. that is all it took for me to learn how to avoid it, or reduce my chances of dying to it again. I am winning more than losing, killing more than dying, so who doesn't know what they are doing sir? And I am doing it with out Meta or A/A Modules so who should maybe move on to different pastures?

[Mudhutwarrior]

I watched the match vids where a dude was running a 733 with dual ppc's in jump snipe heaven. I even got through the poor choice of music though I would have preferred hearing the gameplay instead.
Fact is he would jump then shut down for overheat then jump again. Total team metric. For a pug its the dumbest build ever as overheat is a pure death sentence. PPCs may be effective but at a high cost and risk which it should be. PPC's are rarely worth using while pugging and now the meta has gone to full on DPS in pug builds anything less and the grind is beyond horrible.

[StalaggtIKE]

The core of the issue lies within the PPC, so that's where the changes should have occurred. Tweaking JJ, GR and every other AC was simply bad form.

[Vanguard319]

PPCs are supposed to be pinpoint.They aren't lasers, which do their damage based on time on target, they fire in one all-or-nothing burst. They also have a travel time, which means they can miss at very long range. (I've sniped at targets over a kilometer away and have missed by a very narrow margin.) PPC accuracy improves as you close with the target, but that is normal, and applies with every other weapon. (even TT rules have higher to-hit mods at longer ranges.)

At the moment, they are one of the better balanced weapons. As mentioned by another post, fix the hit detection with SRMs and ACs, and PPCs are less of an issue.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 21 January 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

I watched the match vids where a dude was running a 733 with dual ppc's in jump snipe heaven. I even got through the poor choice of music though I would have preferred hearing the gameplay instead.
Fact is he would jump then shut down for overheat then jump again. Total team metric. For a pug its the dumbest build ever as overheat is a pure death sentence. PPCs may be effective but at a high cost and risk which it should be. PPC's are rarely worth using while pugging and now the meta has gone to full on DPS in pug builds anything less and the grind is beyond horrible.

This kind of play should crush the jumper! If you fall uncontrolled you should take falling damage that multiplies with each elevation you fall. Like in reality and on TT.

[Vanguard319]

Good point about uncontrolled falls. If PGI can resolve the problems with collisions, they could bring back falls. Then they could make it so that falling from damage heights while shutdown results in serious damage. That would make poptarting a high-risk tactic that may pay off, but makes it a tactic less likely to be spammed, and more situational.

[Joseph Mallan]

Every advantage should have a drawback. If this was in place Pop Tarting would (to me) be properly balanced.

[Falso]

BlackDrakon, on 20 January 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

The big problem here is the lack of damage per missile and splash damage from SRM's.

Before this meta, the high risk/high reward of using SRMs were balanced, if you could get in less than 270 meters to a sniper he will pay the price, you will need though, intelligence, and situational awereness to move into cover to eat the distance between both.

Skirmisher lances could do it, start mayhem, and then the brawler lance could get in close and finish the leftovers. Right now, with the lack of damage and the GOD AWFULL Hit detection from SRM's, we are forced to use the meta, coz the risk/reward with SRM's is not balanced enough to take a place in the meta.

If we get 2.5 damage per missile + splash damage + Fix on hit detection, the game will autobalance itself, bringing a place for medium mechs with missile hardpoints and brawlers back into the fight. Right now, is just not worth to use them.

Exactly, fix hit reg, I've never been a fan of "nerfing" anything, but when 2 or 3 weapons end up being the default you nearly have to bring to be effective, that's a problem.

We have had balance previously, there was a time when the Awesome wasn't terrible, PPC were still used ( not the only thing that seemed to hit properly) and were a good option, but not used as much.

It seems to me at some point someone said "hey, not enough people are using PPC's! we need to fix that 'problem'!" and now with the HSR not or w/e is causing hit reg. not to work properly hasn't made high alpha pin-point damage "the best" it has made it the default.

I love high alpha builds! I used to run an Atlas RS with Gauss, 4x MPL, and 2 SRM 6. And even then when you could some times get head-shot from across the map by dual Gauss cats, you could still get up on them and if you played it right, compete.

Right now, even in medium range engagements, because lasers require you to give more "face time" to the enemy because of beam time, you loose Vs the PPC because he can snap shoot, dump full damge, and now mitigate damage while you're still trying to get your full damage in. That or you "snap shoot" and do maybe 1/2 the damge you could.

I would be completely fine with raising everything else to be competitive to the AC/5 & PPC meta.

I think that PGI is going to lose big time, players both old and new if they don't renew their focus on this very unbalanced meta.

If the regular weapons still aren't balanced in nearly a years time, how are the clan tech weapons going to be?

I have hope because I have seen PGI balance before, I encourage them to put as much focus on balancing weapons as anything else. New player learning curve will always be high, but like it's been said, "Right now we have a really nice FPS, it just isn't Mechwarrior."

[wanderer]

Sure, they can fix pinpoint damage.

It's only really pinpoint if the damage can be fully delivered before movement shifts the area being damaged to another hitbox or off the target entirely. It's why when you whip four LL's across a Spider it doesn't suddenly lose a leg, but if you drill it with an AC/20, it's the odd 'Mech out in a butt-kicking contest.

Let's say that instead of being 20 x 1, an AC/20 delivered it's damage as a .4 duration of 5 damage per .1 "tic" and shoot that scout again.

You hit. 5 damage goes to the leg armor. It's moving at 100+ kph. 5 more damage hit the other leg. Tic. The other two tics blow holes in the ground.

You fire at the Thunderbolt. He's moving slower. Two tics hit the CT,two the RT.

He returns fire with a pair of ER PPC's. 20 damage,one location. Ouch.

How about instead, that PPC "splashes" as lightning arcs across the hit? 2x6 damage to the location, with the remaning 2x4 damage hitting a random adjacent location. Still hurt, but 2 locations take damage better than one since each took less damage than either one would have if both PPC's as they are now landed in the same place. Hit the LT with splash PPC? Some damage will land on the LA, CT,or LL. Put em both into the leg? Splash damage to the torso. And so on.

Everyone's still hitting, still doing damage- but the love gets spread around a bit,and it's tougher to centerpunch someone to death if they're on the ball, shielding, moving, twisting.