44 replies to this topic

[BP Raven]

Would certainly be nice if the kitty got its old twist range back, More modules are always nice too.

Getting rid of the oversized arm boxes that previously were only on the C4 and reverting to the C1/A1 arms wouldn't be overpowering, and being able to internally mount multiple launchers as long as they're within the tube count.

The Jester could stand a little more twist/arm elevation as well...

[Bishop Steiner]

couldn't agree more.

[Iacov]

i'd really apreciate that third module slot on my cat k2

[Bishop Steiner]

Iacov, on 23 January 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

i'd really apreciate that third module slot on my cat k2

INORITE?!?!?!?!?!

The agility would be nice, but the module.... the module for some reason feels mor eimportant.

[Ahja]

Well after all why not oppress the Cat when the invisible ninja ECM Atlas fears them so and the Clan is on the way. God know how the kids will cry if they get killed in a shiny gold Mech by a founders Cat.

[Cybertek]

This mech is one of my most favorite mechs of all time. Used to play it all the time, unfortunately anymore, these sit in my mech bay collecting dust. The Jester is the only one I now play due to the restrictions make on them.

[LoPanShui]

Quote

- Catapult
- Pelvis has been adjusted so that a much smaller section of it applies damage to the Center Torso with the rest of it going to the Left and Right Leg.
- Increased the size of the leg penetrating the hip by approximately 5%.
- Head hitbox reduced by approximately 20%

That's from the most recent patch notes, so at least the headshotting problem, the Cat's biggest weakness, has been significantly fixed.

[Kyone Akashi]

Eh, as someone who has a K2 as their favourite Heavy, I'd say they are certainly not "meat shields for their betters". I do not see a need to change anything about the Catapult's agility or hardpoints, as the 'Mech was never intended as a Brawler and the reduced maneuverability fits well to a support fire platform.

That being said, I agree that the Module Slot count is a bit poor and would welcome this change. Jump Jets would be the cherry on top, and just as fitting to the support fire platform as the missing agility. After all, you do need to get into position first, even if you're not intended to move from there!

Bhael Fire, on 21 January 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

Yeah, I have to agree, the tacked on missile racks look silly.

I actually do like the idea, but the execution is a bit meh.

A big "issue" is that they've only changed the textures of the missile box but not the shape, and it just looks ridiculous to have such an oversized launcher with only 5 (LRM) or 7 (SRM) tubes.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 24 January 2014 - 12:07 PM.

[Xeven]

This team has no clue what they are doing with balance. why ask for them to fix something as they are about to ruin all that is batteltech with their blasphemous Clan introduction. Would it me smarte to just add Omini slots to innersphere mecs?YES.
Skip some time line and graduate innersphere to OMNI. Do it in a way that makes you money...

That is what ultimately happens...

BTW cooler new weapons are a money sink.. WAKE up IGP>

Edited by Xeven, 24 January 2014 - 06:41 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kyone Akashi, on 24 January 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

Eh, as someone who has a K2 as their favourite Heavy, I'd say they are certainly not "meat shields for their betters". I do not see a need to change anything about the Catapult's agility or hardpoints, as the 'Mech was never intended as a Brawler and the reduced maneuverability fits well to a support fire platform.

That being said, I agree that the Module Slot count is a bit poor and would welcome this change. Jump Jets would be the cherry on top, and just as fitting to the support fire platform as the missing agility. After all, you do need to get into position first, even if you're not intended to move from there!

I actually do like the idea, but the execution is a bit meh.

A big "issue" is that they've only changed the textures of the missile box but not the shape, and it just looks ridiculous to have such an oversized launcher with only 5 (LRM) or 7 (SRM) tubes.

well, the dcms K2 isn't really a support mech per se. It's meant to fill the same role as the Warhammer, as the only real difference between them (aside from visually) is the SRM6 launcher. Same armor, same basic armament. Medium Lasers as MGs are an odd choice of support weapons. That said, since it is based of the original A1 support chassis, which is a support unit, I can see the agility thing going either way.

JJs..... those would unfortunately feed too much to the poptart meta, a large reason the Jester was energy only. Though instead of nerfing individual mechs and weapons, I would prefer they just fix the underlying design issues that lead to boating and poptarting, the mechlabs nearly open customization (it should be more limited, let each chassis be customizable within it's basic role...you want a different role entirely, get a different mech. If one wants a recon vehicle, you should not start by buying an M1A!1 Abrams tank and trying to make it a scout) and convergence.

[MustrumRidcully]

FupDup, on 20 January 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

For starters, the K2 needs it module slot back. It has worse hardpoints than the Firebrand and sacrifices JJs, so removing a module from it seems a tad overkill.

And since the K2 sacrifices JJs compared to the other Cat variants, I'd suggest giving it 2 extra hardpoints to compensate. Less maneuverability, more firepower. It would probably be 1 extra energy per arm, although 1 extra ballistic per side torso might be kind of fun with 4 MGs.


For Cats in general, part of the problem is that missiles aren't always the most reliable weapons out there (direct fire works all day, erryday). So, buff dem missiles (I won't get into the how-to for that because that's beyond the scope of this thread). Furthermore, carrying more than 1 missile per ear should not duct-tape giant boxes to the side of their already big ears. That looks ugly and is just plain stupid (not to mention, increases vulnerability). Side torso hitboxes should be slightly enlarged in size so that you don't have to turn all the way around to make a shot not hit your CT, but we might still leave the CT slightly large for XL friendliness. The head needs an obvious size reduction. The A1 could probably use some kind of quirk to compensate for being such an easily countered 1-trick-pony, such as a bonus module slot or something (or maybe even 2 bonus hardpoints?).

I wouldn't mind the agility returned to Cats, but the hitbox and hardpoint arrangement makes the Cat better at range than up close, and at range that extra agility doesn't make much of a difference. In a brawl, Cats will get eaten alive by Cataphracts, Victors, etc. no matter how far you can twist your torso around.



That's all I can think of for now.

I would probably not do both, but adding a module slot and adding 2 energy hard points (one for each arm) sounds neat.

Catapults usually carry their weapons in the arms, and the K2's main shtick is supposed to be that it'S an energy variant. But if you want to custom its weapon loadout, you have to sacrifice at least one of these concepts, if not both.
Ballistic Variant => NO longer main guns in the arms, no longer energy based
Large (Pulse or ER) Lasers => Half the primary firepower would now need to be in in the torso.
Medium or Small (Pulse or ER) Lasers = Same as before, and probably you don't even have enough hard points to make a useful build.

And, of course, the Jagermech directly competes and outperforms any possible K2 mech. The only value the K2 still possesses would be as a mech that can sacrifice arm armor - but that doesn't really seem en vogue anymore, quite possibly because the value of high positioned arms in the world of sniping.

---

If no more hard points,a single module slot is not enough. Then I might suggest giving it its original manoeuvrability (or even more) back (on top of the module).

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 26 January 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Khobai]

The Catapult is actually one of the few balanced mechs with jumpjets as far as hardpoints/modules go. What PGI needs to do is balance the other jumpjet mechs the same way as the Spider/Catapult. Mechs with jumpjets should have less hardpoints/modules than similar mechs without jumpjets. We should not have Jenners with 6 hardpoints/3 modules or Highlanders with 7 hardpoints/2 modules. Jenners/Highlanders both need to lose a module slot, at the very least.

The K2 should also get 2 extra energy hardpoints since it has no jumpjets.

Lastly the Catapult scaling needs to be addressed. And if rescaling isnt possible then the Catapult needs to be given passive quirks to make up for the fact its bigger than certain assault mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Jarl Dane]

I still have nightmares of being chased down and killed by SPLAT-CATS in my maxed-out-engine 92 KPH hunchback 4SP.

No where to run, no where to hide, the Catapult jumping and swooping behind me..just needing to get close enough to explode my back in a million jagged fragments of tortured shrapnel.

I say NAY, keep the beast caged! Hold-fast against the ruinous game-breaking potential nested deep within the chained-heart of the Catapult.

[Alex Warden]

biased poll is biased... my cats are still some of my best and most enjoyable mechs. i wouldn´t mind an additional moduleslot for the k2 though, but i can live just fine without it...

Mech The Dane, on 27 January 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

I still have nightmares of being chased down and killed by SPLAT-CATS in my maxed-out-engine 92 KPH hunchback 4SP.

No where to run, no where to hide, the Catapult jumping and swooping behind me..just needing to get close enough to explode my back in a million jagged fragments of tortured shrapnel.

I say NAY, keep the beast caged! Hold-fast against the ruinous game-breaking potential nested deep within the chained-heart of the Catapult.

splatcat was so dangerous because ssrm´s were CT seekers and srm´s were very very strong back then... not the cats fault and they certainly weren´t dangerous at all once at least 1 arm was gone, which can happen pretty quick...

Edited by Alex Warden, 27 January 2014 - 11:45 PM.

[Jarl Dane]

Yeah but I *would* like SRMs re-buff'd a bit.

And if I had to choose between Catapults being buffed or SRMs being buffed, I'd choose SRMs.

[Moromillas]

100% agree on the whole extra missile DVD-esque racks being superglued and duct taped to the batteries. It just looks wrong. I loaded up the game the other day and got quite a shock, when I found out my baby had been turned into a Frankenstein.

I remember when they introduced the quirks. As to buffing, I agree they should be buffed if they're UP. But, I've not played that many matches recently, so I'm not sure what is what. Would like to see all the metrics, all the numbers on Catapults over on the backend.

[CDLord HHGD]

+Other:

Take off the missile boxes, move the K2 energy mounts to arms (and add an energy each), and a single ballistic in the RT.... Oh wait...

[RiotHero]

Besides the Firebrand being better than the K2 in basically every way that actually matters, The Jager A is better than the Catapult C4. The C4 only has one thing on it and that is jumpjets. They both do LRM60 but the A does it with much better LRM15 racks that use less weight. Also for some reason the Jager can do it's LRM 60 from those tiny arm boxes which both are comparable in size to the Cat's single box. Not to mention the Jager doesn't have to open a door making the large box an even larger target and slow firing. Finally the jager has two more hardpoints AND it can mount 2xLL something the cat can't do at all. Even SRMS are better on the jager since within that range the cat's arm boxes tend to last all of 5 seconds even with jj's.


I love my Cat's but, I didn't realize that finally buying jagers would basically make 2/3's of my cats look worthless.


and yes I'm sure all of you can still do well in you Cat's, I even did a 4 kill/950+ dmg game in my K2 a few days ago. Doing well in them doesn't change the basic facts of them being suboptimal. There are people out there that probably had 1000dmg games in a locust.

[Ragnar Darkmane]

What the Catapult needs the most, besides an agility buff, is a massively buffed cockpit hitzone. Seriously, that hitzone is like at least 80% larger than that of pretty much any other mech. Reduce it to a single window and make the rest part of the CT. Right now not only does the Catapult have pretty much the easiest to focus on and hit CT, it also has the largest cockpit hitbox (not to mention the over the top missile rack hitboxes). Even if you actually fail to one or twoshot a Cat through the over the top cockpit you still hit that massive CT that is not all that well armored. This makes the Cat inferior to all the alternatives with A1/C1 LRM-Boats with JJs being the only viable unique build...
Except for that the Jagermech basically entirely invalidates the Cat in any way imaginable.

Quote

That's from the most recent patch notes, so at least the headshotting problem, the Cat's biggest weakness, has been significantly fixed.

Definitely not. Just easily one or twoshotted the both Cats that actually ended up in close combat with me yesterday by somewhat aiming towards the cockpit with my 5x LL Boat Stalker...

Edited by Ragnar Darkmane, 19 February 2014 - 09:29 AM.

[Will HellFire]

Mech The Dane, on 27 January 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

I still have nightmares of being chased down and killed by SPLAT-CATS in my maxed-out-engine 92 KPH hunchback 4SP.

No where to run, no where to hide, the Catapult jumping and swooping behind me..just needing to get close enough to explode my back in a million jagged fragments of tortured shrapnel.

I say NAY, keep the beast caged! Hold-fast against the ruinous game-breaking potential nested deep within the chained-heart of the Catapult.

I was piloting that Splatcat....