101 replies to this topic

[xe N on]

I'm not a fan of the Gauss, but I guess it would work for me using keyboard/mouse software like Logitech's gaming software. It is possible to define a delay between mouse button down and up - I already checked that.

[Corvus Antaka]

Keep trying.

its worth it.

[TercieI]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 20 January 2014 - 09:24 PM, said:

Keep trying.

its worth it.

+1. I've really just learned to use it. And it's deadly. The projectile speed is just glorious. Worth learning.

[ZippySpeedMonkey]

Gauss is fine the way it is...

Remember it's not meant to be used in a brawl...it's a long range support weapon...

You use it correctly and you will have good scores...Be foolish and make it the center point of mech you want to brawl with, you then deserve what happens to you...

[Void Angel]

Rashhaverak, on 20 January 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

Hmmm, maybe it's me then. Perhaps the gauss is fine, and I just can't use it.

It might also be how you're using it, as some others have suggested. I personally only used it on my Atlas D-DC and my Cataphract 3D- I found it better to use different weapons in those slots for my play style. Dual-Gauss snipers are very nasty in their role, but the Gauss is much harder to use in a brawling situation as opposed to sniping. My advice is to set up a cookie cutter build and keep working on the weapon until you're at least reasonably proficient. It'll help you round out your skills and fight other people who use those weapons - and if you don't really like them after you've got them down, you can shelve that 'mech. =)

PS: if you are using a joystick that is not zero-order to play Mechwarrior, the inability to use the Gauss Rifle effectively is the least of your shortcomings. =)

[Coralld]

My favorite mech in the world is my HBK-4H with a Gauss, 3 tons of ammo, 4x ML's, running a STD245 engine. Best KDR compared to all my other mechs and consistently pulls around 400-600+ damage and at the very least get a kill every other match. On average I get around 2 or 3 kills a game, I have also had a number of times getting 4, 5, or ever 6 kills a match, only twice was I able to get 8 kills, and I often out damage most of the Assaults and Heavies. No other mech I own can pull that off, and its the only mech I own that has a Gauss.

So is the Gauss bad? No. Does it need small tweaks? Yes.

Edited by Coralld, 20 January 2014 - 10:06 PM.

[Zerberus]

lsp, on 20 January 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

It's not just you, GR functioned just fine before. Till all the whiners got their way and it was nerfed into being useless.

Interesting.. a speed decrease to an AC 10 or 20 is a "nerf" (BS IMO, but that`s the term this community prefers to use in their hyperbolic posts)

Yet the gauss gets a speed INCREASE, and it`s also a "nerf".

Logically, that does not compute.,

So maybe your`re mad about the changed MECHANICS of the weapon?

Which are neither a nerf, nor a buff, but rather a welcome indicator of who is willing to adapt and overcome and who prefers to just whine and pout when their easybutton is taken away.....

And for the record, I nevcer once whined or even complained about the 2PPC /Gauss meta you apparently miss, but I was very happy to see the gauss be somethiung more than just an AC10 that explodes.... If ANY weapon in a MW game deserves it`s own, unique mechanic to separate the winners from the whiners, it has always been the legendary Gauss Rifle.

And that`s ironically (and deliciously) where a lot if not most of the whines are coming from, the Church of Skill^TM.

Apparently their special brand of skill does not work with this weapon anymore, so it must be {Scrap}... the irony being that I and others are still more than capable of jumpsniping with it... we just don`t make being a poptart the only thing we can do.

Edited by Zerberus, 20 January 2014 - 10:16 PM.

[Cerberias]

Gauss can work, but it doesn't make it a good weapon, at least not compared to AC's/ppc's. A few people can make it work, but they're usually super fragile and harder to brawl with which makes them less versatile.. Also, to all the people touting off damage numbers, theres a difference between damage and effective damage. Ripping a shield side off a highlander for example, is essentially wasted damage.

Edit: No Zerb, the change to the gauss mechanic is a straight up nerf. It increases the cooldown, reduces snapfire, limits window of opportunity, requires more concentration, and increases the chance of user error (I quite often while heavy brawling let go of my click too early and need to recharge, exposing myself for longer which becomes an exponential failure as therefore I'm under more pressure for the next shot..)

Edited by Cerberias, 20 January 2014 - 10:24 PM.

[Arahantius]

The gauss is a great weapon, just needs practice.

It's actually the best weapon for taking out lights if you get the hang of it because it hits where you are aiming. People complain about the spider being hard to take out; I suggest you use the gauss. Maybe I have a different way of viewing the world but gauss vs light mech equals dead light mech.

[Walks_In_Circles]

xe N on, on 20 January 2014 - 09:13 PM, said:

I'm not a fan of the Gauss, but I guess it would work for me using keyboard/mouse software like Logitech's gaming software. It is possible to define a delay between mouse button down and up - I already checked that.

This is true. I have used a gauss macro key set up before, so all I need do is hold the target till the shot fires. While it does not eliminate the desync, it does allow you to let go of the trigger and still fire the shot.

In addition, I find that pairing a TAG with the rifle significantly improves my aim. I can find and lead the target with the TAG laser while charging the shot. It works surprisingly well and looks cool to boot.

Since the gauss rifle is a volatile weapon in MWO, it would make sense that it held the energy charge before firing. Don't tell me the gun will explode when there is no energy being stored and I still have to charge it. Choose one or the other, both makes no sense even with modern day gauss/rail gun tech. If there is no charge held in the capacitors which power the electromagnets within the weapon, there will be no critical failure if the integrity of the capacitors is exceeded. However, if the critical failure occurs while the weapon is charged, you can and will get a premature and uncontrolled discharge of energy, which would destroy the weapon, produce heat and possibly overload internal systems, but not cause the catastrophic explosion comparable to the ammo explosions we see in-game.

Ultimately, I do like the firing mechanic of the gauss rifle. It promotes a more precise shot through deliberate aim and fire. It's not a twitch gun and shouldn't be either so long as it is high damaging and long range. In addition, the volatile weapon mechanics dissuades brawlers from equipping them for short range engagements. While I understand the need to promote variation in gameplay, both the warm up and explosion seems a bit heavy-handed IMO.

Edited by Hrothmar, 21 January 2014 - 06:11 AM.

[Oriius]

Is the weapon terrible? no, no I don't think it is. Is the weapon currently suboptimal when compared to most other ballistics? I'd say yeah.

Unless a change is made to the way heat is handled this low heat puncher is going to basically have to remain suboptimal, lest it get grouped once more with other hard hitters, i.e. the ppc.

If heat caps were lower and there were harsh heat penalties, we could maybe look at a possible removal of the charge time.

[Zerberus]

Cerberias, on 20 January 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

Gauss can work, but it doesn't make it a good weapon, at least not compared to AC's/ppc's. A few people can make it work, but they're usually super fragile and harder to brawl with which makes them less versatile.. Also, to all the people touting off damage numbers, theres a difference between damage and effective damage. Ripping a shield side off a highlander for example, is essentially wasted damage.

Edit: No Zerb, the change to the gauss mechanic is a straight up nerf. It increases the cooldown,

I have to disagree. However, this may have something to do with the fact that I have been computer gaming for about 30 years total, the last 20 of those in some (semi-)competitive or testing fashion. But yes, a small CD nerf is infact present, though it really is minimal, around .5 sec.

I use the gauss like the Minigun in UT. It`s "always spinning up" unless I specifically plan to execute a rare jumpsnipe, in which case I`ll time the spinup to coincide with the planned apex of the jump The result is:

Quote

reduces snapfire

I may be lucky, but when I need it , it`s there. Again, always on "charging up" status.

Quote

limits window of opportunity

See above

Quote

requires more concentration

My ADD diagnosis and the advent of home computer gaming happened more or less at the same time

Quote

and increases the chance of user error (I quite often while heavy brawling let go of my click too early and need to recharge, exposing myself for longer which becomes an exponential failure as therefore I'm under more pressure for the next shot..)

Yes, it`s no longer a truly effective and dangerous brawling weapon.

And IMO, unlike TT, in MWO it shouldn`t be.

No weapon should be truly effective at any range, and IMO that was actually one of the biggest issues that I personally had with the gauss. Second longest overall range, and with 13 damage @ opt. range more than effective enough at 2/3 that range. 7 Dmg at a range that otherwise only LRMS, 5 dmg ERPPCs, and AC5 /2 can reach is the start of an issue. When that dmg increases to the point where at AC/10 optimum range it's significantly more effective than the AC/10, for significantly less heat, and even beats out an AC 20 at ranges above 400m, it starts to become a small problem in and of itself becasue it can`t be countered. And that grows exponentially especially when combined with (ER)PPCs that have a similar speed as well as dmg and rng profile.

Before the change, gauss was practically an absolute no brainer for any ranged build, especially with PPCs. Now it remains a top tier long to mid range weapon in the right hands, but can at least be bested within brawling distance, and more importantly can`t viably be com,bined with any weapon other than a second Gauss. But most importantly, hat means that there is now an effective counter to a gauss, which there wasn`t before.

And TBH, it felt like "just another AC" before... I found that a bit lame....

Edited by Zerberus, 21 January 2014 - 12:25 AM.

[Void Angel]

Zerberus, on 20 January 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

Interesting.. a speed decrease to an AC 10 or 20 is a "nerf" (BS IMO, but that`s the term this community prefers to use in their hyperbolic posts) Yet the gauss gets a speed INCREASE, and it`s also a "nerf". Logically, that does not compute., So maybe your`re mad about the changed MECHANICS of the weapon? Which are neither a nerf, nor a buff, but rather a welcome indicator of who is willing to adapt and overcome and who prefers to just whine and pout when their easybutton is taken away.....

The Gauss Rifle changes were definitely a net nerf - even once the new firing mechanic is mastered, there are situations where you simply cannot use the weapon in time. Constantly charging it will randomly help this problem, but only partly, and the reduced RoF lowers your damage capacity. So overall, the changes are a nerf, even with the buffs included. This net nerf is what people are talking about when they refer to the Gauss as being "nerfed into being useless."

Of course, their statement is empirically untrue, and betrays ignorance as to how game balancing decisions are made, and complete obliviousness to the importance of variety in keeping players playing. Gameplay balance decisions are made, in every game I've ever played, by analyzing statistical gameplay data. Player complaints are often used - but to identify the areas needed for analysis and get insight as to why the problem (should it be real) is occurring. Once the problem (such as the high-alpha sniper meta) is identified, the company will internally collect ideas - the forums help here again - and do their own testing before releasing the change onto a test server or the live environment. Then they monitor the change to see if further tweaks are needed. Every company is going to use some form of this process - they may have more or slightly different steps, but they're never going to just put stuff in because players "whine" on the forums. You'd end up with a game designed by a committee of the loud.

Game companies are also not going to be enthused when one single option, or narrow range of options, is a clearly better way to play their game. So when everyone and his Clanner uncle starts using 3 ERPPCs and a Gauss Rifle, they're going to take notice - because it's reducing variety (maybe I like brawling with lasers and SRMs,) punishing players who don't use "the meta," and incidentally wasting all the time and effort they put into designing the weapons that are being abandoned in favor of "the" best loadout. But they're not going to just take our complaints at face value; they're going to look at what segments of the player base are most affected, how it's going to affect 12-mans as opposed to PuGs, etc, etc. It's a complicated process, and one which every company will approach differently. It will also never produce results which please everyone - but the results are not random, and not a knee-jerk reaction to complaint threads. But all this is too complicated to put into a snide signature or pithy comment - so many people ignore reality in favor of simplistic illusions.

This is, sadly, not likely to change - the same ignorant foolishness has been blathered around the forums of online games since the inception of MMO's. People are trying to fit changes they don't like into the logical framework that comprises their worldview, but they don't really understand the issue. So since they find that making balancing decisions by scanning complaint posts is a believable strategy for running an online game business (it's not; at best it will harm your game, and at worst it's suicide; ask all the people who quit WoW during/after Wrath,) they believe that explanation when it is presented by other people who similarly lack education and mistake blind cynicism for being "streetwise."

PS: While I did quote you, the above post isn't primarily intended for your edification or correction - if you're a professional game tester (a buddy of mine is,) then I'd expect you to know all this. Unless of course you disagree, in which case I'd like to hear it. =)

Edited by Void Angel, 21 January 2014 - 12:44 AM.

[Cerberias]

I'm sorry dude, but even if you're infinite charging, there will be times where it's either just gone off charge or similar, and you'll need to recharge. It happens, I do the spam-charge thing too, and have played many many games since the nerf (like 200~). The only reason gauss was the weapon of choice is poptart sniping. If the game had more brawling, gauss would have seen a lot less use.

You also say you disagree with me claiming that its a nerf, then agree with my points regarding that it is a nerf. Or were you disagreeing with something else? Maybe that they're more fragile (I'd hope not..), also, for someone claiming to be semi competitive and a 'tester' you seem to struggle with 4+0.75..

What I mean by more concentration is that it gives you less processing power to do other things, like torso twisting, keeping track of opponents, even aim is technically harder because you're using more brainpower for the charge mechanic. These things won't be affected much, that is until you get into a high pressure environment such as a brawl, or in a particularly intense piece of sniping. When they are affected though, it makes each one that much harder to do. You lose concentration on certain things, you forget something like torso twisting, congrats you're now dead. There are a shitload of things a good player has to think about in this game to play well, and adding something redundant to the mix is going to cause nothing but negatives.

Also, it gets beaten in poptart wars most of the time at med range (~500m) by the 2ac5/2ppc build, I'd hardly call it a Top Tier weapon anymore. It has its uses but IMO Top Tier describes something good or great in all facets, this has drawbacks at all range, for a small alpha increase and a little less heat. What sort of maths are you using for those range numbers dude? 13 damage at optimal range? What? 660m would be optimal range surely, and that would be 15 damage.. If you're talking 1k it'd be doing ~11.75, if you're talking ERPPC range well youd be reasonably accurate, not sure why youd use a separate weapon system for the optimal range of the gauss though...

Edited by Cerberias, 21 January 2014 - 01:04 AM.

[Void Angel]

/sigh. He's misinterpreting your statements because he's looking too hard for a logical kill to your argument instead of giving you the benefit of the doubt - just as you're doing to him.

What you and he both are trying to say is that you believe the Gauss Rifle changes were or were not (respectively) an overall nerf - and giving the facts you believe justify that conclusion.

[Curccu]

Rashhaverak, on 20 January 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

I give up. I've spent two weeks trying to make a dual gauss sniper work, but it just doesn't. The physical makeup of the mech isn't the problem, it's the weapon itself. To many missed shots from the charge mechanic; too many misses waiting for the thing to charge up, and too many lining up the shot and having the charge expire. Unless the opposing team is stupid and sits motionless, the gauss misses more shots than it hits. And all the time your not shooting, having your opponents firing AC/2/5 or PPC at you. It's just too hard, and not worth it. Oh, and forget it if a light gets on your butt...

Gauss is so bad I'd rather pilot an SRM mech.

From last nights Last Mech Standing EU Finals - +SJR+ vs WSB
http://www.twitch.tv...ing/b/496821641
2:20:50 -->

[ColonelMetus]

Gauss used to be a fun weapon to use. now its just 15 tons of {Scrap} that always explodes for no reason

[Cerberias]

Actually Void, thats not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that Gauss got hugely nerfed, but wasn't an I Win pre-nerf, only exacerbated by JJ sniping. The rest of my arguments are mostly just totalling his vague and badly upheld views, such as the understating of the cooldown (adding AROUND 0.5 seconds to the cooldown? No, there is a fixed value here)

My own vague arguments included 'if the game had more brawling, gauss would have seen a lot less use'. Justified in my opinion by the utilisation of brawlers in competitive games even with Gauss around, combined with the second factor that almost all snipers in competitive play were poptarts, or at the very least stalkers (which didnt run gauss anyway..).

My other of '2ppc/2ac5 beats gauss poptarts anyday' was simply due to the increased complexity of using the Gauss in a high pressure situation. Combined with the unpredictable nature of a good enemy poptart simply turning the Gauss into a very hard weapon to use consistently. Not saying it can't be used once again, but it's a lot harder to use under pressure, for a very small tradeoff in power.

Not sure how I'm only reading in what I want to see.. I'm simply cutting down any arguments I see that make no sense. I agree with his arguments regarding 'needing a second gauss to make it work' but there are no good 2 Gauss builds that can take any sort of damage, which generally aren't the builds seen in comp play. I also agree that the Gauss should not be a close range brawler weapon, which is why I would take away the charge and then increase the cooldown to say 6ish seconds. Sniper weapons don't 'charge' they shoot slower and shoot when you click, imo.

Edited by Cerberias, 21 January 2014 - 02:07 AM.

[fandre]

I'm using DualGauss + 4x ML on a Jaggermech and I Like brawling. Also with charge mechanic you can use the Gauss in a brawl and to hit light mechs. It is not very difficult to hit one (ok, not a spider but that is a different story).

The charge mechanic is ok (IMO) but the cooldown time could be slightly reduced.

Edited by fandre, 21 January 2014 - 03:05 AM.

[Kazma]

change the damn Gauss chargeup animation/sound and the explosion rate, I often dont know if its charged up or not

aside from that I do still like the Gauss the way it is now