Mellifluer, on 20 January 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:
is the atlas D-DC because it can rock ecm and up to a 72 alpha at short range.
and it has the most armor of any mech. which is nice for brawling
Since you have taken the time to read my silly post, I am going to take the time to respond to each and every one of you. I will only respond to your first post in this barrage however.
In the interest of time I will only address the points you have laid out as to why your mech choice is better, or why mine is poor.
AFTER reviewing most of the arguments I am going to start with this point.
Brawling isn’t a fancy ballet dance where monstrous mechs swing metal arms back and forth taking potshots, it is a blowout of dmg as quickly and as directly as possible in the effort to kill your enemy before he can kill you. You’re both going to take damage, but if you do enough to kill them before they do enough to kill you, you’re going to win? Let us talk no more of ballet.
The only “twist” you need is the amount it takes to place your crosshair over the enemy.
Mellifluer – Your points (#1 ECM, #2 Alpa strike of 72dmg , #3 More Armor.)
#1
Ecm allows the DDC to be an incredible flanking weapon great for initiating a fight, but it doesn’t help once you are engaged in one vs a dumbfire mech. You will be fighting the 3f face to face 90% of the time, because they are slow and already waiting for you in a good map position.
(SPOILER)
This super slow stalker is going to be in a superior position when it fights, because that is how it fights, that is just how it should be piloted whereas the greatest strength of ECM is mobility which means you are generally going to come to me.
When a 3f brawler sets up, it is going to be in a very confined area, with few entrances 2 or fewer directly ahead, think tunnels, or between buildings If you come around behind it, you will kill it, but that is bad positioning anyway, the atlas is too slow for this to be a real advantage.
For those reasons the flanking advantage is nearly always negated even with ECM against this mech.
(I am not talking about light mechs with ecm that is different.)
#2
In terms of Firepower 72 < 89. Both of these numbers necessitate the use of SRM6’s, in that game the stalker wins. I don’t think this part is arguable the other way.
If you want to talk about different builds we can though. It would be easy to set up countless builds to destroy the 3f from a distance, but you cannot possibly build any mech in this game that can beat it face to face with firepower.
#3
The Atlas has more Armor. It is also bigger, on the order of magnitudes it is bigger. In the hitbox world If you have average aim, you can hit the atlas anywhere you want to, because it has GIGANTIC hit boxes. (Except for the eye…that damn eye..) The stalker on the other hand has laughable hitbox sizes for an assault mech. That is what makes the difference. And that is why the Stalker is a better brawler in this case.
TLDR ) The Atlas is a great flanker, but not as good of a brawler. It is too slow to make advantage of the ECM vs another assault, it is too disadvantaged in hardpoints to overwhelm with firepower, and it has too big of hitboxes for the modicum of armor difference to be a positive. If the atlas was not so incredibly easy to neuter it would be a different story I think. All around the atlas is still a great mech, but not as good in a brawl as the stalker 3f.
kesuga7, on 20 January 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:
Thing is about the stalker your only going to be able to hit whats directly infront of you
with that torso twist i mean but good buil none the less
Kesuga7 Your Points (#1. You cannot hit targets that are not in front of you.)
#1. I completely agree with you, the 3f brawler annihilates anything in front of it though. And if you are only fighting in confined spaces like you should be, there is not a lot of room to get around you.
If something dangerous gets behind you, you are probably going to die in this mech. But nothing in the came can get past the front of you without taking massive damage. Most mechs that are big enough to kill you immediately from behind will be near death themselves and not fast enough to get around your slow turnspeed.
(SPOILER) The mech is slow with that engine and chassis size, but you can still turn fast enough to hit any mech even light ones if you are not out in the open. (Which you never ever ever should be.) Let me say again this mech will be almost worthless if you engage people out in the open at distance, it is a brawler and nothing else.
MungFuSensei, on 21 January 2014 - 09:04 PM, said:
Stalkers make terrible brawlers, no matter how big their alpha is. Slow turning rate, bad torso twist, no arms. You miss that first alpha and you're dead. You can't twist to spread damage, because your job is to protect your side torsos, not use them as shields.
Don't get me wrong, it has to feel incredibly satisfying to let loose with that much firepower. However, I'd never run it except as a gag. Like quad-PPCs and 6 LLas builds, they seem great on paper but they fail terribly in practice.
For me, it's been the Grid-Iron lately. STD 200, DHS, Endo, 3 MLas, LB10X (4 tons), and an ASRM6 (2 tons). Can skirmish really well at mid ranges, and packs enough punch close in to make even an Atlas think twice. Has crazy fast torso twist to spread damage.
MungFuSensei You have a lot of points I’ll try my best to address them all with brevity in mind.
Your Points (#1. Stalkers are bad at brawling despite their alpha #2. Slow turn rate #3. Bad torso twist #4 No arms #5. If you miss the first alpha you are dead #6. You cannot twist to spread damage (because your job is to protect your side torsos not use them as shields ) #7. It is a gag build not a real build it is only good on paper not in practice. #8 you choose the grid-iron as your brawler with a std 200 and 3mlas lb10x and 1 srm6 because it is good at mid ranges, packs enough punch to worry an atlas up close and has great torso twist for spreading damage.
#1. Stalkers are good at brawling BECAUSE of their alpha potential.
This argument requires the discussion of ALPHA vs SUSTAIN and which is better for brawling In my opinion and experience the alpha is far more important than the sustain at close range, which is what brawling is, and what fighting the 3f Always means. A high alpha allows you to kill people instantly, or disarm them instantly. If you aren’t bringing the big guns to the party you’re going to die before you can show your full potential at close range.
The truth is, the only possible way you can beat the 3f brawler is at range, you cannot brawl it and win.
(SPOILER)
In order for a sustain mech to ever win a brawl vs an alpha mech it has to survive the alphas. No duh right? Well, no mech in the game can eat the 180 dmg that comes from the stalker 3f in 2 alphas before it overheats without losing very important components or dying outright, not even the atlas guys. You are going to sponge with your arm? That is ok I will only fire my weapons when you turn into me, the closer you get the better I am.
On HIGH heat maps, you have a much better chance, only if you are running cool ballistics or srms, but only the catapult can boat the srms better than the 3f. If I spawn the 3f on mount doom, I don’t even use the lasers, 4x6 srms are good enough, and cool enough to win you are still talking more dmg than an ac40, while generating less heat. The spread doesn’t matter as much as people think, because you don’t fire them under 180 meters. SRMS are honestly the best weapons in the game at close range.
#2. The slow turn rate has been explained above, it doesn’t hinder your fighting potential in the 3f because you are supposed to be fighting in enclosed spaces such as tunnels / cities.
#3. Bad torso twist, it is fast enough to aim the guns at anything in the game, all you need to do is hit once.
#4. No arms. This is an advantage, the small hit box of the stalker is amazing at brawling, and the ears soak damage up without exploding so you get to keep all of your weapons until the bitter end unlike your opponent.
#5. This isn’t a real argument. Brawling is ALWAYS high risk, if you are far enough away to miss every weapon you have and come out unscathed or unheated you are not even brawling, and chances are you are not much of a threat to the enemy anyway. Honestly if you miss an entire alpha against a mech that is under 270 meters away you deserve to die anyway, because you need practice. (You can open the SRM tubes as well if you are getting caught by the delay on your missile salvos. I always open mine before I fire.)
#6 this is a Two parter.
A) The stalker has retardedly small hitboxes making the necessity and action of twisting much less important. You can still twist and you should, the lack of speed is made up for by the lack of size
I never stated that this mech is a graceful fighter, that’s what spreading is. This mech relies on stupidly powerful weapons to annihilate anything before it can do too much damage to you. Torso twisting only works against mechs that are likewise built for sustain damage, if you honestly never run into the 3f then go up to an ac40 jaegermech which is only HALF as deadly, and see if you can torso twist away that damage for more than 5 seconds.
#7 What are you trying to do with your mech? I built mine to kill anything and everything that comes down a chokepoint at close range, a Brawler. It is great on paper and even better in game. Do not play this mech like other mechs. Play it the way it must be played like a stalker 3f brawler.
(SPOILER)
If you copy my build, and follow my guide, you cannot lose in a close up match against any other mech in a brawl under 270 meters unless YOU make mistakes. It is both amazing on paper and amazing in practice, but you have to play it RIGHT. What you call a gag build I call a highly specialized weapon, the more specialized a weapon the more specific its purpose. You have to use it correctly in order to make it shine. What this mech excels at, killing other assaults in brawls. Annihilating them even. I can only offer anecdotal evidence to this Because that is what “in practice means” I can kill 2 assaults 1 after the other no problem if I flank them from a side, I can kill 1 assault face to face while fighting 2 no problem if I come from the front. This mech is absolute TRASH at range, but there is nothing better up close. This is the heaviest puncher in the game bar none in a dark alley. If you don’t want to believe me, just try it for yourself, this mech is not expensive to build.
#8. Let me start by saying I love hunchbacks, they are good at many things, they are my favorite chassis in the game, and your build sounds fun.
Firstly, you are too slow and too weak to spread 90 damage and survive which is only 1 alpha and will occur instantly giving little to no chance to spread anything but the 2
nd half of the laser dmg…. So your torso twist is useless for anything defensive at this tonnage level.
Secondly, you are also too slow to dodge while using a std 200 so your torso twist is going to be useless for harassing. This mech is all around horrible for brawling against something like the 3f.
The single srm6 and an lbx10 is nothing in the face of an atlas, let alone the 3f which has a far greater advantage vs spread dmg. You have to be far enough away to fire them to survive retaliation that the spread isn’t going to do anything. The 3mlas are too hot to be useful backup weapons for sustain, and they add damage but not enough to call this a brawler with alphas.
In summary this build is too slow to be a skirmisher and too weak (both in firepower and armor) to be considered as a real brawler. You at LEAST need a std 250 to do anything but snipe and survive in a hunchback. In my opinion and experience.
(SPOILER)
Any Hunchback versus any assault brawler in an enclosed space will get ripped to shreds in moments. there is no comparison in a brawl….This is just honesty I think if you have reasoning against this feel free I’m not being a douchebag this is just the truth. (Your STD 200 engine is also too slow to harass), and you don’t have enough focused firepower to hurt assault mechs before they sweep the floor with you.
The only thing the hunch you are running is good at is Flanking, harassing from the edges of cover(again this is extremely dangerous in such a slow medium mech with such obviously vulnerable hardpoints), or as you said it yourself skirmishing at medium range,
that a brawler does not make. And I know that because I love the hunchbacks, I’m REALLY good with them. You should use them as ridge humpers or drive by shooters they need to be really fast, and they need to have a ton of focused firepower. They do massive damage, but they absolutely cannot brawl against a 90 dmg alpha which means (Taking punches and giving punches) You’d be far better standing in the 500 meter range and just picking close range targets apart. (But you can’t vs the 3f because it will be in cover.)
Without an AC20 your grid iron should never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever get under 270 meters range vs any brawler. You can hit them in the back fine, you can swing by the side and harass yes, but that mech is not a brawler. It IS a skirmisher. If I can SEE the hunch in my weapon range I can TAKE the hunch in 1 shot. You are not going to be doing anything but dying if you come down face first at the 3f or any other big brawler for that matter in a hunchback.
The single srm6 and an lbx10 is nothing in the face of an atlas, let alone the 3f. You have to be far enough away to fire them to survive retaliation that the spread isn’t going to do anything.
IronWolf Vascus, on 21 January 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:
Personally, I don't see a Stalker being a Brawler because that is not its job ever. The amount of times I've solo'd Stalkers trying to brawl in a Spider or Shadowhawk, just by staying away from its front and blowing off its laughably exposed arms. The saddest part is I don't think the Stalker is a bad mech, its just not a brawler at all.
I've seen this exact build before or a very similar one before and it never did the trick. Sure its got a good damage output, but anything above a single assault or heavy will put you in a blindspot.
IronWolf Vascus Your Points (#1 the job of the Stalker is not to brawl ever. #2 You have defeated hordes of would-be stalker brawlers in light mechs and medium jumpjet mechs (by not facing it face to face, and aiming at the arms first) #3 You have seen this build before but it has never been successful, because it cannot fight lighter mechs than a heavy.)
I think you have very good points, thank you for not rambling, I will not have to either with my rebuttle.
#1 The stalker has amazing hardpoints(The most in the game), and hitboxes that are minuscule for its’ weight class by design! For instant close range dmg nothing else can match it Period. For survivability it is the heaviest mech class in the game with the BEST hit box in that class.
In other words, the 3f has the best brawling potential in the game, because it brings more guns and a smaller target to the party than anyone else.
#2 You have not fought any good brawler 3f pilots.
You cannot outrun the turn speed of a 3f to get behind them while you are in a tunnel, or a corridor of buildings, which is the only place you should be in a 3f with this many guns and this slow.
You cannot fly in a tunnel.
The only advantage JJ’s have is in a cityscape, but the time it takes you to jump OVER me to get behind me in a JJ mech is the time it takes for me to hit you once, either killing you outright, legging you, or removing some of your teeth.
In summary the only chance you have to hurt me is if you start the fight behind me, and all I have to to is turn my back into the wall, you’ve got to cross my line of fire in order to continue shooting me, either you leave or you die. That’s the truth. It is not hard to hit a light or medium with srm weapons or pinpoint lasers under 270 meters.
#3. You can fight any chassis of mech with the brawler 3f when fighting where it excels, which is in enclosed spaces, which is the absolute only place you pilot this mech. Chokepoints or bust, said it in the guide at OP
Helmstif, on 21 January 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:
OP either didn't think it through, or, with all due respect, is total noob. Judging from his forum post counter, well....
If you go down that design philosophy,
this is what it should be like.
Helmstif Your points (#1 You disagree with me, insult me, and base your judgement by my post counter. #2 you spit out a mutant version of my build that is supposedly superior)
#1 With No respect, you are ignorant sir. I think this adequately addresses your first point with the same effort you put in, but in case it doesn’t. Game experience is earned in game, not on a forum. Just because you talk more doesn’t mean the words coming out of your mouth are more experienced.
#2. I will point out the flaws in your ‘knockoff’
A) Mine brings more guns to the party, and let me point out that they are more of the exact SAME guns coming to the party.
This mech is designed to fight in a chokepoint where the advantage of speed is negated. If you cannot kill you opponent with a std 255 at point blank range you shouldn’t be brawling. A std 300 will not save you.
C) You committed the mortal sin of using Critical slots for less weight in an assault mech that is designed to be an alpha boat so you could…move 9kph faster (wont matter in close quarters at under 270 meters) Cool 5% better…really? In exchange for losing 10 dmg on your alpha.
People should also note that his mech overheats in the same amount of alpha strikes as mine, it is just less effective, check the weapon lab if ye are of little faith.
In summary you have made this mech worse in every single way you could.
you have added ammo to a mech that doesn’t need it, you even put explosive ammo in the CT of a mech that is going to be fighting on the front line, sacrificed firepower, increased cost, and insulted your senior.
Noob, stick to other chassis you ain’t ready for the 3f game.
XX Sulla XX, on 21 January 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:
Well for me there is one mech I always have a good chance of winning in a brawl with. Not matter if its an Atlas or Stalker or Shadowhawk etc. And that is my Victor 9S. 60+ alpha - 80kph - full armor - 4 jump jets. I have not found anything I like better and I have over 1000 drops in a DDC.
.
XX Sulla XX your points (#1 Victor > Stalker or Atlas or speed brawler..ect)
#1. The victor is a great mech so is the ddc, They are good at what you’re using them for, namely flanking outmaneuvering or overpowering in open combat, but they can’t beat the 3f in a close space or face to face..
Try the 3f build I linked at the beginning and try it the way I suggest, you might like it, but it definitely isn’t for everyone.
And let me just say to anyone that is bothering to read through my lengthy points, The 3f is never going to beat another mech out in the open, unless they see you at under 270 meters and they are slow, but it cannot lose up close and enclosed. That is what it is designed for, that is how it brawls, and that is why it is the best at it. I’m not saying it is the best open terrain brawler, or the best flanker or anything of that nature. It is only good at what it does and nothing can beat it at that. That is what I’m saying.
Merchant Your points (#1 it is better as a mixed range mech #2 (I’m not going to address this point separately so I won’t debate your build suggestions for longer ranges)
#1. I disagree, I use fast mechs for longer range fights so that I can deal damage without taking any, and I love to brawl. Therefore I think that because the hardpoints and hitboxes on this mech are the absolute best for urban brawling or chokepoints it is better at the close game.
The Chassis designs ARE good at mixed range, but THIS chassis is the BEST at brawling close range in the game.
Hawk819, on 21 January 2014 - 10:44 PM, said:
Best way to use a Stalker is at range.
Hawk819 your points (#1. Best way to use stalker is at range.)
#1. The best way to use the stalker is up close.
-if you guys don’t explain your reasoning neither will I, but if you want to know why just look through the responses to others I have already posted.
Smokefield your points (#1 Best way is at range, 2ppc 2 lpl, good at anything.)
#1. Something that is good at anything excels at nothing, your mech build can get beat in the open by better ones, and beat up close by better ones. Being okay at everything in my opinion is not the best way to do something, being the best at one thing is far more important.
I wouldn’t use LPL’s on anything that wasn’t designed to fight at medium laser range maximum. You would be better off with 2 large lasers, or er larges, because they are almost as effective up close or at length, also your build would run super hot, as hot as mine, but only dealing half the damage and having blindspots for your output.
The 3f’s strength is not just that it can boat energy weapons, it is that it can boat as well as a 4p hunchback and bring 4 srm 6’s to the party.
TLDR I disagree with you.
smokefield, on 21 January 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:
yes the stalker is best used at range. when i was using the 3f, before all the heat changes, i was running 2 ppc 2 lpl. was good at anything.
Sorry your response is mixed with hawks
Kiiyor, on 21 January 2014 - 11:08 PM, said:
Remember when SRM's were ludicrously dangerous instruments of extreme Kerblammo? I do. You could cram 5 six packs into that thing. You were slow, and it was hard to hit... well, anything...
... but you only needed to hit once.
Kiiyor your points(#1. You agree with me over the power of SRMS, but in the past tense.)
#1. SRMS are stupid easy to land at under 180 meters, and even at 270 the spread does not matter when you are firing 24 of them at once against an enemy that cannot maneuver very far away from you due to buildings or tunnel walls.
So in closing, I think they are STILL “ludicrously dangerous instruments of extreme kerblammo” and that is why this build revolves around them
LuInRei, on 21 January 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:
OP, the major flaw in your build is that if you want to brawl with it it's too slow, plus Stalker's side torsos are not made for brawling, but if you're still intending to go down with this approach consider ditching LPL and getting artemis for your SRMs.
Something along those lines
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f2d89d72dfd5b02
LulnRei your points (#1 it is too slow #2 ST’s not designed for brawling #3 Artemis vs lpl)
#1. Only fighting in enclosed spaces negates the need for speed
#2. The hitboxes on this mech are designed to boat alphas which is how brawling should be done properly up close you cannot spread. You just cannot spread the damage from this.
#3. I like your build, but I think mine is better, don’t need the speed, don’t need the tighter grouping, at the cost of 19 dmg. You guys honestly will have no problem landing enough of your damage each alpha to annihilate everyone else, and this build vs mine will lose at close range due to its lack of firepower.
The walls enclose them, you don’t need to have super accurate weapons, There is no need for speed the walls enclose you as well, There is no need to torso twist when you can core a mech or disarm them before they can possibly do it to you. Heatwise, this build is still going to overheat at the same time mine is.
TLDR Artemis isn’t necessary or worth the weight, nor is increased speed necessary. (also I think the CT ammo should be in the other leg and you don’t need that much)
Rushin Roulette, on 22 January 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:
Just about any Assault mech is better at brawling (even the much laughed at Awsome) due to the very limited torso twist range/speed/tilt. In a brawl, twisting your torso to protect any vital weapons is a must and fully articulate arms are a massive advantage in a brawl where your opponents will be circling you.
With the Stalker, you will be prey to any light or Medium mech which you miss in the first go. Plus that heat efficiency seems a little low for a Brawler mech.
Rushin Roulette your points (#1. Every other assault mech is better at brawling even the awesome because of the torso twist ect. (SIR THE HUBRIS IN THIS STATEMENT IS OVERWHELMING!) #2. Prey to mediums/lights Because you cannot hit them with alpha. #3. Heat efficiency.
#1. You have many sub points in this so, I’ll go with the most obvious first,
A)The awesome is garbage incarnate for hitboxes up close.
Opponents cannot circle through walls which is where you will be fighting this.
C) You don’t need to torso twist because they will be dead in 2 shots, at 4 seconds, or disarmed. They cannot possibly twist this away either, if they do turn just hold your 2
nd shot and kill them. Nobody can twist out of 90dmg at close to 180 meters.
#2. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to miss with 24 srms, anything fast enough to dodge your lasers is weak enough to die from that very quickly, you only need to land one alpha, Anything too strong for the spread is slow enough or big enough to get crushed by the full 90 dmg of an alpha. You are going to be in a tunnel or in a cityscape, this isn’t an open plains or you haven’t read the OP. A light mech even one running at the close to 150kph lightspeed in this game cannout stay out of your firing cone in an enclosed space, back to wall, turn, light / medium dead rinse repeat.
#3. This is an alpha boat which is built around killing or disarming the opponent as quickly as possible, not dancing. Brawling is not dancing.
Void Angel Your points (#1. Excellent 2ndary brawler (I agree’d in the Opening post it is the only way you can possibly use this mech while moving forward in open spaces, by standing behind a big moron). #2. Easy to spread dmg from the front but not from the sides, THANK YOU you are the first person that seems to have played a stalker. #3 stalker is too slow with 255)
Void Angel, on 22 January 2014 - 12:37 AM, said:
The Stalker can make an excellent secondary brawler - meaning that it engages just after the primary brawler (e.g. Atlas) absorbs the enemy alpha strike, and unloads on the enemy itself. A Stalker can spread damage to its side torsos with ease from the front, but you have to try to hit the arms from the side. Along with its relatively thin frontal profile, this makes the Stalker much harder to kill from the front than the sides - which in turn makes it a poor primary brawler, and a potentially excellent secondary. Critics are correct that it is too slow for this with a 255 Engine; the 300 is a must, since your torso twist and turning rates are modified by engine rating.
That being said, big, slow, primary brawlers are on the decline for reasons related to the metagame and too numerous to go into here. This means that you're not going to have a primary brawler to support many (though not all) matches, and so you'll end up playing a sort of counter-brawling role. Work your way up through cover and use your massive firepower and high weapon mounts to punish the fast brawlers and hit-and-run types who are trying to flank your team.
Void angel you are the first person to recognize what this build is used for, and that it is very good at what it does. Thank you, you are brilliant.
#1)I agree You are correct, but it is ALSO very good at choke points and fighting in urban areas, because of the reasons you already stated. Which I would argue makes it a front line brawler as well. The best in fact.
#2) You are absolutely right this mech is bad from the side, and too slow to turn, But your enemies will never be on your side if they are big enough to be dealing the deadly damage they will always be in front of you because you will only be fighting in a tunnel or an enclosed space like a city area. The hit boxes on this assault are the best hitboxes the most OP hitboxes in the game.
#3) Where you will be using it is in an enclosed space to brawl, negating the need for speed from yourself or your enemies, the 255 is fast enough to aim over any other mech in the game,
Victor Morson, on 23 January 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:
The topic is lies, heh
Stalkers in general can't claim that title right now.
Victor Morson Your point (#1. Topic is lies because, stalkers in General can’t claim that title right now.)
#1. I disagree, nothing else in the game can beat the 3f in the area I’ve said it should be fighting in, and I never claimed that the other stalker chassis could do it, There is a REASON I only chose the 3f, there is one other model of stalker that is more expensive and is not as good, but comes close.
Scarface1978, on 23 January 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:
This build is pure garbage...
1) stalker SUX for brawl as brawler need ALOT torso twist to not get cored fast and stalker sux with twisting
2) HOT as hell even if u chain all that lasors and missiles still any hotter map u are pretty much done
3) SRM = GARBAGE atleast now. I really cant get how is this possible sometimes i coire ppl FAST sometimes they seems to do nothing at all... stranbge
4) anything get behind u are u pretty much dead
Brawler need to be fast and agile he need to go IN make a PUNCH and then go OUT > REPEAT ( hunch is good for brawl)
or u have to be DURABLE like Atlas - once u go in u not going back so make sure u have friends with u to support and while u draw their attention ur team punish them. Use big engine for atlass ( i use std350) so u can torso twist FAST so u dont get all dmg into one point. Just turn - alpha - trurn(show them left then right side) ur arms absorbs alot dmg then and u can stay alive longer.
IMO best brawlers are able to use AC20 with decent speed with STD engine for that quick burst dmg. SRM are not good weapons now so AC20 imo is the best for that job + some ML two or more then u will have decent brawler.
I really like my atlass D-DC even if sometimes my srm make me cry... but sometimes whan game actually register my hits well... then s*hit happens
Scarface1978 your points (#1. Build is pure gabarge , sux @ brawl because no twist #2. Hot #3. SRM = bad #4. If someone is behind you you’re dead. #5 brawler must be fast OR heavier #6 AC20 > all other brawling weapons #7 you use a DDC with an AC20 and srms)
Scarface allow me to educate you starting with your ddc,
#7 You’re using it wrong. SRMS are very easy to hit, and your mech is imo a better brawler because it has SRMS. AC20 on an atlas is super easy to rip off with a 3f. You can’t fire at me from far away because I’m in cover, you cannot engage up close because you cannot match my dmg, you have worse hit boxes, and your speed doesn’t matter inside a covered area. (very first post response went over DDC weaknesses This also includes why having more armor on an atlas does not make it a better brawler up close.
#1 AC20 build is for n00bs, and not as good as SRM builds at brawling. You don’t need to twist when you can take away their biggest guns in 4 seconds, don’t need to twist when you are up close ect ect. Went over this in OP and numerously already.
#2. HOT, well it is an alpha type brawler, You don’t shoot lasers when there is lava on your feet and you’re effective anywhere.
#3. SRM’s are the best close range weapons in the game. More damage, Less weight, Less Heat, Nothing else in the game can match the SRM for pure damage up close. Are you shooting them at 270 meters? Don’t. Don’t be silly. Fight in areas where you can aim at the enemy with your main guns.
#4. Nope, nothing can stay behind you when you only fight next to walls or in tunnels ect…Sorry ifI’m being brief I’ve already addressed this. But honestly people, Are you really having that hard of a time turning around to shoot at lights? EVEN out in the open only the very best pilots can avoid running under your reticule at LEAST once, and you only NEED once, just don’t miss with spread weapons…which this mech has in excess.
#5 A hunchback isn’t a brawler..it is a harassing skirmisher, a brawler is BIG , SLOW, and packs FIREPOWER. A hunchback cannot do anything but harass, you are not brawling. Said this before Brawling isn’t dancing, you can’t twist out of 90 dmg alpha…4 seconds or less you lose a CT or a ST in anything vs the 3f.
#6 The AC20 is overrated, SRMS are lighter do more damage and are easier to protect, use less heat ect. If you wanted to argue about brawling with ballistics you wouldn’t even use the ac20 as an example at 270 or less the SRM 6 is the best weapon in the game.
Not only is the AC20 the most commonly targeted hardpoint in the game on assault mechs and lighter, it is so so so easy to destroy. Notice that the main drawback in mounting an AC20 vs SRM6’s on various chassis is that the SRM6’s are symmetrically spread over the chassis, making it possible only to lower their dmg output not get rid of it completely.
TLDR) After you eat 90 dmg at close range try to dance, I take away your ac20 or your CT, and you lose. This happens in 4 seconds which coincidentally means you are going to TURN back into me to fire again the same time my weapons come off cooldowns. (SRMS = AC20 cooldowns.)
AC20 reliance for brawling is garbage.
luxebo, on 23 January 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:
The only Stalker I would ever count as a brawler would be Misery. As a dual PPC single AC20 highlanderish build with the ac in a secure torso instead of an arm or a minature Atlas with 5 med lasers, single AC20 and single SRM6, both I've seen work. Definitely not this kind of Stalker however, far too hot and not enough alpha.
Luxebo your point (#1 Misery is better than 3f with a poptart build minus the poptart #2 Atlas in 5ml ac20 1srm form #3 “not this kind of stalker however…2 hot & not enough alpha”)
#1. The misery is pay to turn, it is a little faster at turning, but it has miserable hardpoints, ballistic weapon < missile weapon. Ac20 <2xsrm6. Don’t need the extra turning speed in urban warfare (that’s what I’m calling my tunnel and cityscape now screw typing it anymore.) You have built a poptart without jumpjets, that is not a good misery build. The misery cannot compete up close with the 3f because it lacks damage potential, and it’s barely better maneuverability will make 0 difference.)
#2. The DDC is the best brawling atlas, and the one you have designed doesn’t hold a candle to it. Atlas chassis is inferior with hitboxes, been over this look up at other posts.
#3. There is no other mech in the game that can alpha like a 3f. Doesn’t matter if you run hot if you’re booting up while your enemy is a smoking corpse.
Pat Kell, on 24 January 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:
FYI to all the people saying stalkers can't brawl. In the last assault vs the world tournament, I took 1st place in the stalker category with a brawling stalker. Not saying it's a better brawler than other mechs but you can make it a good brawler. I had 4 med lasers 2 large laser and 3SRM6's 1 SRM4. The key is to not charge in like a derp. Take your time and pick your battles. Granted, not having side arm movement isn't good, but the 3f can torso twist really well. (the others suck). I prefer using it as a long range mech but it can do very well as a brawler if used correctly.
Pat Kell Your points (Honestly I feel like you agree with me, and you already realize the 3f is viable, The only point we disagree on is probably your build.)
- Listen to this guy, he knows what he is talking about, don’t charge in like a tard. Everyone else seems to be missing this point in abundance. Your build is nearly identical to mine, I like brawling more than long range so, that’s where we diverge. Well played sir.
Revorn, on 24 January 2014 - 02:56 AM, said:
Revorn Your points (#1 slow #2 low ammo #3 heat #4 you are not impressed)
#1. Fight in urban areas. Speed doesn’t matter
#2. What are you packing for a vacation?
#3. 2 alphas and enemy dies you’re not overheated except on the hot maps
#4. I am not impressed by your argument.
I looked at your builds, your goldenboy would get crushed if it engaged the 3f, it can’t withstand the alphas to even do 1 circle, pitiful sir pitiful.
And the quickdraw? Really. LoL it is very fast but it doesn’t matter up close, it is even easier to hit than the goldenboy. The hitboxes on the quickdraw are TRASH. Get outta here with that jazz mr unimpressive.
fleshwoundNPG, on 24 January 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:
Best brawlers = Highlanders and 'Phracts. No ballistics, no brawl.
Misery STK can be an solid brawler once you unlock all the XP efficiencies and put a big engine in it. It might not have proper arms, but as soon as the target crosses your 12 o'clock it becomes vapor.
The rest of the STKs need the SRM hit-regs to be fixed in order to even be a DECENT brawler.
WAY back when SRMs were (too) good my 3Fs and 5Ms were deadly SRM brawlers even with the slow speed and torso twist. Nasty street fighters.
I can see a 5M with 5xSSRMs and BAP being somewhat decent at brawling and nice against quick lights, such as OP'd ECM Spiders. Plus you would have extra weight/space for large lasers and a large engine and be quicker than an Atlas.
fleshwoundNPG, on 24 January 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:
Best brawlers = Highlanders and 'Phracts. No ballistics, no brawl.
Misery STK can be an solid brawler once you unlock all the XP efficiencies and put a big engine in it. It might not have proper arms, but as soon as the target crosses your 12 o'clock it becomes vapor.
The rest of the STKs need the SRM hit-regs to be fixed in order to even be a DECENT brawler.
WAY back when SRMs were (too) good my 3Fs and 5Ms were deadly SRM brawlers even with the slow speed and torso twist. Nasty street fighters.
I can see a 5M with 5xSSRMs and BAP being somewhat decent at brawling and nice against quick lights, such as OP'd ECM Spiders. Plus you would have extra weight/space for large lasers and a large engine and be quicker than an Atlas.
fleshwoundNPG, on 24 January 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:
Best brawlers = Highlanders and 'Phracts. No ballistics, no brawl.
Misery STK can be an solid brawler once you unlock all the XP efficiencies and put a big engine in it. It might not have proper arms, but as soon as the target crosses your 12 o'clock it becomes vapor.
The rest of the STKs need the SRM hit-regs to be fixed in order to even be a DECENT brawler.
WAY back when SRMs were (too) good my 3Fs and 5Ms were deadly SRM brawlers even with the slow speed and torso twist. Nasty street fighters.
I can see a 5M with 5xSSRMs and BAP being somewhat decent at brawling and nice against quick lights, such as OP'd ECM Spiders. Plus you would have extra weight/space for large lasers and a large engine and be quicker than an Atlas.
fleshwoundNPG, on 24 January 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:
Best brawlers = Highlanders and 'Phracts. No ballistics, no brawl.
Misery STK can be an solid brawler once you unlock all the XP efficiencies and put a big engine in it. It might not have proper arms, but as soon as the target crosses your 12 o'clock it becomes vapor.
The rest of the STKs need the SRM hit-regs to be fixed in order to even be a DECENT brawler.
WAY back when SRMs were (too) good my 3Fs and 5Ms were deadly SRM brawlers even with the slow speed and torso twist. Nasty street fighters.
I can see a 5M with 5xSSRMs and BAP being somewhat decent at brawling and nice against quick lights, such as OP'd ECM Spiders. Plus you would have extra weight/space for large lasers and a large engine and be quicker than an Atlas.
FleshwoundNPG your point (#1 Ballistics Best #2 misery better #3 srm not good #4SSRM build….heinous crime against brawling sir.#5 Highlanders and phracts best)
#1. no ballistic weapon can match the alpha of the srm. Get out of my urban zone you can’t live here.
#2. Misery is trash up close vs 3f for reasons already stated
#3 SRM is good, reasons already stated
#4 Streaks…Streaks are absolutely worthless in a close up environment, these are by FAR the worst choice you can have. STREAKS?! No. Not up in here, lock time, low dmg , and they require you to look at me LOL, you fire your streaks, I’ll kill you before you get 2 salvs in.
#5 These are good arguments, 4x and 3d are amazing toys, the highlander is an allrounder, but they don’t have the hardpoints to compete or the tonnage to compete, (conversely of what I said as to their order) ~~~~~Ballistics are best for sustain brawling, the 4x is amazing with plac ac5 boating, the 3d can be awesome running ppc and ac5, but they cannot compete in an alpha fight and they are the freaking pancake hitbox The cataphract has the worst brawling hitbox of all the mechs here, it is worse than the atlas because it has paper armor compared to true brawling mechs (which are assault mechs in case you were wondering.) The Highlander, is not as good as the atlas in enclosed spaces which is where we will be fighting, Less armor, same size, less firepower. NEXT!
Grayblue, on 04 February 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:
I think it is viable.
For whatever reason, I find Stalkers very hard to destroy. Even more so than an Atlas.
My only criticism is the short range. I try to keep at least one long range weapon, since every time I build a short range brawler, I get dropped in an open map where I either get exposed, or other team members get slaughtered by long range weapons, and all I can do is watch.
Grayblue Your point (Its viable, but long range preferable, bring at least one plinking gun.)
#1. Flexibility is vulnerability. The 3f knows where it will be fighting, always every time, no exceptions.
Every single map has an area you can place yourself in where the enemy cannot shoot you unless they are within your short range. Short range weapons are better at alphas. In order for you to brawl up close you really have to put map movement FIRST. The 3f cannot do anything else than what I’ve said in the guide.
TripleEhBeef, on 09 February 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:
The best brawler in the game is a well built hunchie piloted by someone who can torso twist like a ballerina.
TripleEhBeef your point (#1 Brawling is Ballet. Hunchback is good ect.)
#1. Hunch to slow too weak, to eat the damage, to respond ect went over hunch earlier. Great mech, wont work here. Not a true brawler. Brawling is not ballet!
Wriath, on 09 February 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:
Wriath your point (#1 Ugly Commando)
#1 Ugly commando does as he pleases.
RickySpanish, on 10 February 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:
One cannot rely on spread damage in a brawler. OP while Stalkers can be frightening opponents at any range, your build is undone by your reliance on SRMs to inflate your potential alpha damage. Back in the day an SRM Stalker was an unstoppable force, perhaps that will be true again.
RickySpanish your point (#1 cannot rely on spread damage Srm = bad these days.)
#1. Not if you fight where you should, you don’t even need to be good at anything but planning to dominate with this build the SRM is the best brawling weapon in the game. Artemis need not apply either
Mazzyplz, on 11 February 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:
dude i have no problem killing any stalker in my awesome, as long as we're in brawling range and it's not raining LRM on me or shooting more ppcs from afar.
the only stalker i cannot brawl to death in my weakest awesome is the misery, for obvious reasons
the other variants can't twist that good, and are too slow, the last time one of these made me bit the dust i was running into an enclosed area with it, either inside the cave on forest colony, or one of those dead end alleyways in river city, where there was no chance for me to get behind or to the side
Mazzyplz your point (#1 I kill any stalker in my awesome #2 Misery danger #3 twisting melodrama)
#1. Awesome is trash because of hitbox. You would soak up those srms like sponge..a fat portly…smoking dead sponge. The reason you beat the other Stalkers brawling is because they were not built to brawl.
#2 Misery is not as good as the 3f at the close range brawl for obvious reasons
#3. Don’t need to twist. Exactly, because you are only going to be in one of those often frequented areas that affords you great cover and few entrances.
I refuse to edit that, but I responded to everyone that took the time to post. The quotes broke after a certain point, CTRL + F to find your name and my response, if you didn't get a fair response it is because I already responded to your points earlier, OR I was fighting fire with fire. Good reads and good luck up there. If you want to continue the discussion try to use valid points or arguments.
2
Kidding, that's gonna be even hotter. The real reason that brawlers should stay cool is that if you're overheating during a brawl, you're screwed when they attack back.
