87 replies to this topic

[kesuga7]

Nick Makiaveli, on 21 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

So? You don't need that many mech bays, unless you plan to keep all the mechs. If you do, then what's the problem? Smart money would to have been to just buy the Ravens, keep the one(s) you like, then move on to Jenners etc. Buy mech bays as you need them. Thus if you hate a given variant, sell it and use that mech bay for the next one.

Or here's a thought, start a bunch of new accounts, one for each chassis. The new player bonus will help you get just about any mech, if not all three.

Swear to god it's like some of you people can't or won't think and just want the whole ******* game handed to you because your mommy said you were special or some ****.


Now if I was rude to anyone who DIDN'T deserve it because I misunderstood their post, I apologize. For the rest of you, suck it and grow up.

@lol nick you got allot of responses fast
Thats the thing though im paying 60$ to own less then a quarter of the mech ingame
Im not paying 30$ and expect the whole game - Buy a chassis see what mechs i like and keep them as you stated (which is what iv been doing lol )

but some of these prices
to 'OWN all the mechs' or to get the 'whole game' that would be
roughly 97 mech variants (Non hero or champion) = 150$++

Do i really have to spend 100$+ just to be able to KEEP all my 40 mechs , owning' all the game/mechs/a fraction of the mechs ingame just starts to cost a dam lot (huge c-bill grind and not buy and resell)

Edited by kesuga7, 21 January 2014 - 11:01 AM.

[xTrident]

What's with all the hostility Nick? Seems most of the people replying are giving decent enough reasons to have a problem. That whole mentality of "If you don't like it, quit/leave/do something else." simply doesn't fly. Especially when people's time and money is wrapped up into it. Also, the replies come from people actually giving a damn. Probably better to have people give a damn rather than walk away.

Edited by xTrident, 21 January 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Whatzituyah]

xTrident, on 21 January 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

What's with all the hostility Nick? Seems most of the people replying you are giving to decent enough reasons to have a problem. That whole mentality of "If you don't like it, quit/leave/do something else." simply doesn't fly. Especially when people's time and money is wrapped up into it. Also, the replies come from people actually giving a damn. Probably better to have people give a damn than walk away.

Nothing is going to change if someone walks away from something kinda like if you walk away from someone bullying someone else and don't say something or even better you saw the person murdering someone and burying them leaving no trace evidence and you were the only witness.

[xTrident]

Whatzituyah, on 21 January 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Nothing is going to change if someone walks away from something kinda like if you walk away from someone bullying someone else and don't say something or even better you saw the person murdering someone and burying them leaving no trace evidence and you were the only witness.

That's my point.

[Whatzituyah]

xTrident, on 21 January 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

That's my point.

I know thats why I made the post supporting you.

[xTrident]

Whatzituyah, on 21 January 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

I know thats why I made the post supporting you.

Thank you.

[kesuga7]

honestly i think the mandatory Double heatsink upgrade
1.5 million c-bill upgrade

has sucked 22.5 million C-bills out of my 15 mechs i got in mechbays
or 6 million c-bills if you only owned 4 mechs

that doesn't even include all the other mechs i bought and resold
so im guesstimating around 40-45 million c-bills spent on Doubleheatsink upgrades

Edited by kesuga7, 21 January 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[LastPaladin]

KuritaGuard, on 21 January 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

Yes i really complain about C-Bill complainers. If they rise C-Bill income they dont earn money and that means the game will be shut down.

If MWO's business model is dependent on keeping C-bill income low in order to force people to buy premium time, then it's a losing model and the game will fail anyway. The ones hit hardest by low income are the newer players, and the newer players are the ones most likely to say "forget it" and go play another game. You need to win over those players and retain them first, THEN you try to put the squeeze on them for money once they are hooked. If you do it the other way, and put the squeeze on them before they are hooked on the game, they just walk.

[Ngamok]

Belphegore, on 21 January 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Every week without fail one of these threads, is it some kind of sponsored propaganda to try and get people to cough up cash? Let me ask you this then.. Why should we pony up any money when there's been next to no development in the last year and all they seem to do is punish us via economy nerfs etc just to try and force us to buy premium time?

I, like many other people, play and spend cash on multiple games at once. I spend up to £200 per month on games including Planetside 2, Guildwars 2, War Thunder, WOT, and many steam games.. yet i haven't spent another penny on MWO since the Ilya Muromets. Why? because i don't feel the game in it's current state is worth investing any more money in currently.

I'm sure many others on this forum are in exactly the same position as me and feel the same way, so your FREE to play speech will only serve to irritate people.

If there is no content, what do you need the C-Bills for? In one night (3-4 hours) I can make a minimum of 2 million C-Bills. If the stars all align, I can make 3 million. One week is ok for grinding for an Assault.

[Mawai]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 January 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

Founders program >= 5mil $.
Project Phoenix ~ 10mil $?
Clan Invasion ~ 30mil $??

Those funds obviously didn't go to hiring new programmers and devs, fixing bugs and balancing the game. So I'd say they earn enough.


I've been in countries where that is way more than a whole family spends on meals per week. Not everyone is eating in the Commodore you know.

The only number we know is the Founder's program. I have no idea where you are getting phoenix and clan numbers from but if I had to guess ... phoenix was at or below the founders and clan should be doing abysmally so far since there are probably lots of folks like me who purchased packs previously but won't touch clans until PGI can demonstrate that they can deliver the features that will turn the game into something like what they originally described rather than combat barbie dolls where folks get to dress up their favorite model and go out and shoot up their buddies over and over and over and over again ...

As for where the money went? No idea but it costs more than $5 million to keep a 50 person development studio and game servers running for a year ... besides which IGP uses the income to fund other games they are developing as well. (but I agree that a greater investment in engineering/development staff would have been a good idea).

Finally, you are quite correct that there are lots of places in this world that are much worse off than Europe or North America. There are also parts of both these regions where on-going poverty is a major problem that really needs to be dealt with ... BUT ... those facts don't have much meaning when discussing the people who play MWO ... these folks have computers, high speed internet connections, and electricity , and so are very likely to be in a position where 8 euro a month is unlikely to be a really significant amount of money (i.e. two trips to Starbucks ...).

Edited by Mawai, 21 January 2014 - 11:52 AM.

[Sandpit]

Mawai, on 21 January 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Finally, you are quite correct that there are lots of places in this world that are much worse off than Europe or North America. There are also parts of both these regions where on-going poverty is a major problem that really needs to be dealt with ... BUT ... those facts don't have much meaning when discussing the people who play MWO ... these folks have computers, high speed internet connections, and electricity , and so are very likely to be in a position where 8 euro a month is unlikely to be a really significant amount of money (i.e. two trips to Starbucks ...).

^^^^^

If you're on here talking about and playing this game you are NOT poor. So stop with the "poor people can't afford it" taglines.

C-bill economy is good where it's at. MC pricing? bleh, only thing reasonably priced there are mech bays.

[rolly]

(eats popcorn)

I am amused how:

1.) We have these posts complaining about how much "virtual" money has been sucked up. We're not even trading stocks here. Its a c-bill. If you had an exchange to real money then maybe your post would have clout.

2.) We talk of this 5 million earned from Founders etc, etc... as if one individual or a family is spending it. Not an organization with multiple employees, building leases, utilities, software/hardware, employee benefits, and associated costs with running a medium sized company in a highly competitive industry.

3.) You don't "own" anything in this game. Its content downloaded and is useless with the company running the game. If you "owned" the game you either bought it at the store, or actually have stocks in PGI/IGP. All this talk of owning online digital content that you are allowed to use upon the successful daily and yearly operation of a company is just silly.

4.) All the figures that have been thrown around - you've already likely spent it on other ridiculous stuff in RL, (ie. Car, Car insurance, gas, cat food, dinner, movies, your new popcorn maker) but because this forum is a soapbox we get to revisit this topic. $8-$14.00 or even $240 is nothing (sadly) these days. The original clan pack of $240.00 was essentially $40.00 a month for six months.

5.) with all the "Me-want-now,-I-deserve-this,-they're-stealing-money-from-me,-I-want-mandatory-changes" -
I wonder how many of those who complain so much, actually grasp any concept of what its like to run a successful business for a year, much less two years and then break even or much better - make enough profit to hire more people (which PGI is doing) and publish patches/content/announcements/marketing every two weeks? Heck writers don't even publish their work every year. (I'm talking about RUNNING a company, not something you read in a book or they talk of in economics class)

Edited by rolly, 21 January 2014 - 12:03 PM.

[Mawai]

Belphegore, on 21 January 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Every week without fail one of these threads, is it some kind of sponsored propaganda to try and get people to cough up cash? Let me ask you this then.. Why should we pony up any money when there's been next to no development in the last year and all they seem to do is punish us via economy nerfs etc just to try and force us to buy premium time?

I, like many other people, play and spend cash on multiple games at once. I spend up to £200 per month on games including Planetside 2, Guildwars 2, War Thunder, WOT, and many steam games.. yet i haven't spent another penny on MWO since the Ilya Muromets. Why? because i don't feel the game in it's current state is worth investing any more money in currently.

I'm sure many others on this forum are in exactly the same position as me and feel the same way, so your FREE to play speech will only serve to irritate people.

I agree with your take on the state of the game.

However, the topic was aimed at folks who are complaining that C-bill earnings are too low such that it takes them too long to earn enough to buy their next free mech. The OP pointed out that if the grind was too easy, very few folks would be motivated to pay for items (hero mechs and premium time) that would reduce the grind significantly.

I agree with the OP on that ... the grind is painful ... but the grind is a balance between losing people who would not pay to play the game in the first place and those who are motivated to pay a bit to play and reduce the grinding involved. Only PGI has the numbers on that.

[WarHippy]

Nick Makiaveli, on 21 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Then they probably aren't playing this game. If you are broke, then play for free and ****. Or better yet, quit playing, and spend your time in the library reading and studying so you can try and get a job or a better one.

As I said above free players are content as well, and as such telling them to leave is ignorant at best and outright stupid at its worst. Attacking people for their current financial situation also doesn't help your argument just makes you look petty.

Nick Makiaveli, on 21 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Or here's a thought, start a bunch of new accounts, one for each chassis. The new player bonus will help you get just about any mech, if not all three.

This is a terrible suggestion, and it needs to stop being spread.

Nick Makiaveli, on 21 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Swear to god it's like some of you people can't or won't think and just want the whole ******* game handed to you because your mommy said you were special or some ****.

Why is it that when this topic comes up for discussion the default tactic is to belittle and insult instead of actually discussing it?

Nick Makiaveli, on 21 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Now if I was rude to anyone who DIDN'T deserve it because I misunderstood their post, I apologize. For the rest of you, suck it and grow up.

You shouldn't be rude to anyone just because they have a different opinion than you, and as such should be apologizing to everyone. However, the one truly in need of growing up probably won't bother.

Nick Makiaveli, on 21 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

So do it or go elsewhere. Again what's the problem? I am now averaging around 100K without bonuses because I suck less than i did when I averaged 30K a match.

If you don't like the actual game play, then does it really matter how much you make?

Enjoyment of the game can still be had, but many feel it is diminished by the grind. This isn't true for everyone, but it is certainly true for many after the cut our pay.

[rolly]

LastPaladin, on 21 January 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

If MWO's business model is dependent on keeping C-bill income low in order to force people to buy premium time, then it's a losing model and the game will fail anyway. The ones hit hardest by low income are the newer players, and the newer players are the ones most likely to say "forget it" and go play another game. You need to win over those players and retain them first, THEN you try to put the squeeze on them for money once they are hooked. If you do it the other way, and put the squeeze on them before they are hooked on the game, they just walk.

Dunno where you get your economics. But I'm not seeing how people are forced to play and purchase Premium. I've been playing since closed beta and the only premium I've had was the one given with the Phoenix pack. No PGI enforcer squad showed up at my door and asked for "Premium protection money"

If the "purchase premium model to gain 50% more cred" is a losing model, Wargaming.net must be so hurting right now. I mean, they've been desperately trying to push version 8.11? and develop WoWp and WoBS. Gasp. The horror. They're so poor the CEO is spending money to dig up WW2 spitfires. PGI is goin down that aweful road with this model. NO!

By the way - the hardest hit catagory isn't that hard hit. The group of new players I've introduced aren't having much trouble with the Cadet bonus and premium they gave away over the holidays.

[xTrident]

rolly, on 21 January 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

(eats popcorn)

I am amused how:

1.) We have these posts complaining about how much "virtual" money has been sucked up. We're not even trading stocks here. Its a c-bill. If you had an exchange to real money then maybe your post would have clout.

2.) We talk of this 5 million earned from Founders etc, etc... as if one individual or a family is spending it. Not an organization with multiple employees, building leases, utilities, software/hardware, employee benefits, and associated costs with running a medium sized company in a highly competitive industry.

3.) You don't "own" anything in this game. Its content downloaded and is useless with the company running the game. If you "owned" the game you either bought it at the store, or actually have stocks in PGI/IGP. All this talk of owning online digital content that you are allowed to use upon the successful daily and yearly operation of a company is just silly.

4.) All the figures that have been thrown around - you've already likely spent it on other ridiculous stuff in RL, (ie. Car, Car insurance, gas, cat food, dinner, movies, your new popcorn maker) but because this forum is a soapbox we get to revisit this topic. $8-$14.00 or even $240 is nothing (sadly) these days. The original clan pack of $240.00 was essentially $40.00 a month for six months.

5.) with all the "Me-want-now,-I-deserve-this,-they're-stealing-money-from-me,-I-want-mandatory-changes" -
I wonder how many of those who complain so much, actually grasp any concept of what its like to run a successful business for a year, much less two years and then break even or much better - make enough profit to hire more people (which PGI is doing) and publish patches/content/announcements/marketing every two weeks? Heck writers don't even publish their work every year. (I'm talking about RUNNING a company, not something you read in a book or they talk of in economics class)

$240 is something when put into perspective of - a game. Otherwise, for the most part I agree that $240 isn't much anymore. My problem with pricing like that is think the 60 buck console games cost is high, let alone this charge.

As for running a business, not that I have any real knowledge on the issue, but I certainly have some appreciation based on some of the things I've seen/heard. Aside from the responsibility aspect I wouldn't want, the next very big reason I'd never want my own business is from the financial stand point.

Not to be mistaken, I don't necessarily disagree with anything you wrote.

Edited by xTrident, 21 January 2014 - 05:23 PM.

[CrashieJ]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 January 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

I've been in countries where that is way more than a whole family spends on meals per week. Not everyone is eating in the Commodore you know.

They're eating in front of one

[MadcatX]

KuritaGuard, on 21 January 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

Yes i really complain about C-Bill complainers. If they rise C-Bill income they dont earn money and that means the game will be shut down.

Project Pheonix
Saber Reinforcements
A-la-carte clan mechs
clan mech bundles
golden clan mech
Hero Mechs
Colors
Camo
Cockpit doodads

PGI's got 99 issues. Lacking money isn't one of them.

[Gremlich Johns]

I have no problem with the c-bill earnings - I didn't have an issue when they were higher and didn't care when they dropped them to the current level. It's an F2P game. I do have issues, however, with the lack of a finished game (that was supposed to be here at Launch) that I can play and have fun in. The c-bills are just a bonus to me playing, that's why I don't consider playing a "grind". I also do not feel compelled to buy any/every mech PGI produces - if YOU do, welll, then there's that and I'll leave that issue for you to deal with.

[Mawai]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 January 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Oh comeon. Its common knowledge by now.


You do realize that it takes a skilled programmer about one day to do everything you mentioned ... not 2 years. You might not crash anymore but others do, go no further then tech support of this very forum.

1) The only common knowledge is the $5 million from the original founder's program. No other earnings information has ever been made available to the best of my knowledge. PGI, IGP and 7 are all privately held.

2) You are either completely clueless about coding or being extremely disingenuous (i.e. excessive exaggeration just because you think it makes you sound good and makes PGI look bad). I am quite happy to complain about their slow feature production and inability to hit scheduled for announced targets ... but I don't draw fantasy comparisons to unrealistic figures.