167 replies to this topic

[Buckminster]

Now that I've used a bit, I find the hold-and-fire mechanic of the gauss easy enough to deal with. It's certainly more annoying than other ballistics, but I think doing something to tone them down was very needed - 15 damage at crazy range with no heat is balance-breaking.

And I don't think it's strictly a 'sniper' weapon either. My Shadow Hawk has one, and it's just as effective when brawling as it is while sniping.

I also prefer the hold method, rather than firing with a simple delay. It's let me avoid taking shots when my target moves into cover before it finishes charging.

Edited by Buckminster, 22 January 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[Firenze]

I've been seeing Dual Gauss Jagers, Gausscats, Dual Gauss 3D snipers (not a joke, they were wrecking face out there), and some Gauss shadowhawks around. The gauss still lives and works great.

[BillyM]

Did someone say Gauss rifles suck?

...trial dragon damage thread!





(That said, the charge-up should be louder or crosshairs pulse blue or something...)

--billyM

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I love the Gauss Rifle and even more the way it currently is, not one single issue. In my opinion it is a very deadly slug especially because it does not generate heat.

Take your math and factor in heat vs DoT ope what just happened there? You overheating?

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 22 January 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Serapth]

BillyM, on 22 January 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

Did someone say Gauss rifles suck?

...trial dragon damage thread!





(That said, the charge-up should be louder or crosshairs pulse blue or something...)

--billyM

I had a 1000+ damage 4 kill round in a Locust once... but I certainly wouldn't use that as evidence they aren't ****.

[Buckminster]

And I hate to add some rain to the parade, but you look like you're dropping in a 4-man, which can have a huge impact on a game.

[Serapth]

Buckminster, on 22 January 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

And I hate to add some rain to the parade, but you look like you're dropping in a 4-man, which can have a huge impact on a game.

Frankly its the existence of premades that pretty much render all stats pretty much meaningless, at least without context. For example, if someone who pugs 100% of the time has a KDR > 1, they are at least average. Someone who groups all the time though, a KDR of 1 would be rather awful. Who knows how bad things will get if they truly do open up 12mans to the pug queue.

[MavRCK]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 January 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

or....

math and science without context is rubbish.

DPS (aka "MATH") is a meaningless figure because mechs don't exist in a vacuum where they can just shoot at each other nonstop. Movement. Cover. Missed shots. Range. All in the math your beloved DPS fallacy does not take into account.

Perhaps it's time to step your math past grade school arithmetic into the realm applied mathematics, statistics and actuarial sciences?

But by all means, when you actually start an intelligent conversation, I promise to be positively riveted!

Forget being riveted, why not start off with being informed?



Discuss the math. Top players avoid gauss for the most part -- the math explains a huge reason why -- the difficulty of use which involves your variables of "context" explains the rest.

[Buckminster]

I think there's one issue that has people hung up - your assertion that "top" players don't use the gauss. What's this based on? Champ-een PUGging? 12-mans? In the US? It's a fuzzy statement. None of us know where we stand on the Elo tables, so it's hard to make a statement like "top" without some context.

But based on the anecdotal evidence in this thread - there's still lots of love for the gauss, me included. Which I loathe to say, because I hate the gauss. It's what ruined TT, as far as I'm concerned.

[MavRCK]

Let's step away from loving or hating particular weapons.. I never played TT and I wish I could understand more of how this weapon negatively-affected what looked like an amazing game.

Let's assume you did know who were top players and had top elo.. logically we know this because those players, including streamers, fail to find matches regularly... amongst other methods. Likewise, those players regularly drop against one another..

So with this in mind, we do know who the top players are and there is a consensus that the gauss isn't great. That's not to say it's completely terrible. The truth lies somewhere in between.. like most things in life.

So how to evaluate the gauss?

Let's start with math. It's an objective basis. From the DPS alone, you can see that it pales versus other ballistic weapons - if not most other weapons.

I hope this train of thought is somewhat fair and easy to follow.



Finding common ground in one another's arguments will help everyone understand and evaluate the situation quickly and effectively.

Edited by MavRCK, 22 January 2014 - 12:15 PM.

[Buckminster]

MavRCK, on 22 January 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

Let's step away from loving or hating particular weapons.. I never played TT and I wish I could understand more of how this weapon negatively-affected what looked like an amazing game.

Lol, for me it's simple. Pre-gauss, the top weapon was the PPC - 10 damage, decent range, but lots of heat. Or if you wanted more damage you went AC/20 - 20 damage, short range, lots of heat. Then in came the gauss - 15 damage, longer range, 1 heat. It broke the mechanic. The damage to range to heat balance was completely offset. And sure, it had ammo needs, but considering you didn't need to add all sorts of heat sinks to balance the heat, that wasn't a big problem.

MavRCK, on 22 January 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

So how to evaluate the gauss?

Let's start with math. It's an objective basis. From the DPS alone, you can see that it pales versus other ballistic weapons - if not most other weapons.

I don't think that DPS alone is objective. Let's compare it to the other long range ballistic - the AC/2. Sure, the AC/2 has a higher DPS, and at 6 tons you can easily mount two in the space of one gauss. But then look at the HPS - the AC/2 produces almost 8 times as much heat, two of them almost 15 times as much! And this doesn't take into account that those two AC/2s only do 4 damage - so you'd have to hit the exact same spot 4 times to match that one gauss.

Numbers just don't tell the full story.

[Gevurah]

I can't speak for everyone but the Gauss desyncing works fine for me. I see it less in the field, yeah, but it's not any less effective for people who take the time to learn the mechanic.

I've run my JM6-S for the same way for about a year now. Two gauss, 2 ML (at one point, 4 SL but other than that an identical build). It is, quite literally, stupid proof. Even for me. Shy of me doing something monumentally idiotic (which happens more often than I'd like to admit) it does pretty freaking great.

JAGERMECH JM6-S 214 122 90 1.36 245 131 1.87 72,947 162,327
19:13:53
It's one of my best mechs; I'd rank myself as 'somewhat above average'.

Edited by Gevurah, 22 January 2014 - 12:38 PM.

[StalaggtIKE]

Serapth, on 21 January 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

Perhaps low ELO players are still sporting them.

Obviously, this is it.

A high Elo player wouldn't be bothered with this weapon, yet a lower Elo player can just pick it right up. Hmmm...?

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 22 January 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[Serapth]

StalaggtIKE, on 22 January 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

Obviously, this is it.

A high Elo player wouldn't be bothered with this weapon, yet a lower Elo player can just pick it right up. Hmmm...?

Or... without being a {Richard Cameron} about it... there is a trial mech with a gauss rifle.



But hey, if you want to make this an elo e-peen thing, go ahead.

[Domoneky]

I use my AS7-D-DC sporting a Gauss and I do pretty well with it. I do admit that there hasn't been a lot of players using it lately but then again most people I target prefer to be in the thick of it so they bring weapons like LBX or A/C 20s or even A/C 40s. Everyone is just dying to be the guy with all the kills and some people don't use the Gauss because of the charging mechanic. I used the Gauss back in the closed beta days and back then everyone had it because it was pretty damn overpowered. Now that they cant perform snapshots with it then what's the point of using it? It comes back down to role. Like I sad earlier, I use my D-DC but mainly as Fire Support. With that Gauss I can still do damage up almost 2 klicks. Granted not a lot but enough for people to move back into cover and put a Mech out of the fight for at least a few seconds. As for Elo....frankly I couldn't care less about the damn thing. I just want targets and try to win. My biggest gripe is with all the damn glory hogs trying to charge the enemy line alone and unafraid which is foolhardy. He charges then gets killed and blames everyone as to why he died when he himself is quick to ridicule someone else if they did it.

[MavRCK]

Does anyone want to actually discuss the math?



It's not like it's the middle ages... we have gay marriage... a black president.. china went to the moon... and Vancouver's house prices are... well.. still unaffordable.

[MavRCK]

Gevurah, on 22 January 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

I can't speak for everyone but the Gauss desyncing works fine for me. I see it less in the field, yeah, but it's not any less effective for people who take the time to learn the mechanic.

I've run my JM6-S for the same way for about a year now. Two gauss, 2 ML (at one point, 4 SL but other than that an identical build). It is, quite literally, stupid proof. Even for me. Shy of me doing something monumentally idiotic (which happens more often than I'd like to admit) it does pretty freaking great.

JAGERMECH JM6-S 214 122 90 1.36 245 131 1.87 72,947 162,327
19:13:53
It's one of my best mechs; I'd rank myself as 'somewhat above average'.

Since we're going to spout our statistics.. this is my 2 erpcc 1 gauss rifle misery - does this qualify me to state that it's difficult to use?
MISERY 81 62 19 3.26=Win:Loss 75 34 2.21=KDR 29,951 57,689
07:53:39

In less than 8 hours played, my misery is fully mastered playing at the very high elo bracket where I wouldn't find matches before the ELO changes -- check my twitch channels and videos for proof.

Okay, so can we get to dealing with math and logic? Maybe we can find some mid way point between those who love the gauss and those who don't such as the OP -- this is his thread so why the need to post negative comments and argue in his thread? Maybe your own <3 the gauss thread and let others have their opinions.

If you want to discuss opinions, then discuss them... analyze and use critical thinking to address the situation.

Edited by MavRCK, 22 January 2014 - 05:10 PM.

[Brandorf]

I'd left gauss alone for a long long time, and picked it up for the first time (post nerf) after buying the Grid Iron, my only complaints are that I wish I could hold the charge longer, and that I would like some visual feedback in the crosshair that it is fully charged.

[Just wanna play]

not as many people use it any more, wasn't the whole point of the charge up and such to...ya know...lower its use? why don't you complain ya dont see flamers as often as well, naturally some weapons will be more common then others

and it wouldn't make sense for the "lower elos" to be the only one using it after it became harder to use.....wouldn't it be the other way around? just saying....

Imo, if anything, perhaps give it Some hit points back and ya know..only cause it to "release it energy" when its actually storing it? (Aka charging) also perhaps let it charge when there is no round loaded, and maybe to balance that part, make it possible to release the trigger and accidentally shoot when there isn't any round loaded, forcing you to wait for the gun to load again, letting it load ahead of time would help the damage out put for those used to the weapon, i personally feel as though im using a bow and arrow when i use a guass

[Just wanna play]

and also imo, really sniping weapons should favor alpha damage and possible sacrifice dps for that damage and range, if it has higher dps then now, it might just be the better ac/20 again, it has great range, ac/20 just got an even slower round, it does 15 damage for one single point of heat, takes up way less space (can go into arms and allows an xl engine if in the side)

think about a slow shooting sniper rifle in some other games

Edited by Just wanna play, 22 January 2014 - 05:34 PM.