20 replies to this topic

[Ambuscade]

I have a few ideas on how to make heat a much more important factor in combat:

1) Right now the chance of ammo explosion is a fixed 10%. My idea is to first raise it to 20%, and then incorporate your mech's heat into the value. When your heat bar goes above 50%, the ammo explosion chance will begin to increase by 10% for every 5% heat onward. For example, if you were at 65% on the heat bar, your ammo would have a 50% chance of explosion (the 20% base value + 30% increased chance from heat). This increased chance would cap at 100% when heat is at 100%. [ NOTE: This does not mean your ammo has a chance to spontaneously explode when above 50%. It means it has increased chance of explosion when destroyed only ]

2) Ammo that is stored with CASE migrates the effect from idea 1) by half. Now instead of increasing ammo explosion chance by 10% for every 5% heat above 50%, its only a 5% chance increase. So in the previous example, when at 65% heat you only have a 35% chance of ammo explosion (20% base value + 15% increased chance from heat).

3) Flamers deal bonus critical hit damage to ammo only.

The above ideas are an attempt to increase the relevance of heat, ammo explosions, CASE, and flamers. The numbers I've have used are for demonstration purposes, they are by no means the end all be all values. Please discuss and remain constructive, I look forward to the responses.

Ambuscade

[Joseph Mallan]

Its an interesting proposal... I could live (and die) with it, but you will probably be hard pressed to sell it to the masses.

[Ambuscade]

I figured since there are no heat penalties, heat only causes shutdown, and flamers can't shutdown enemy mechs I'd try and invent something unique to the heat mechanics. Just shooting until I overheat with the only consequence being shutdown and engine damage is lackluster.

Ambuscade

[Joseph Mallan]

I agree with that 100%.

[TygerLily]

I'd be in favor of a high ammo explosion chance whenever you shutdown from heat. You already take some damage from it but cooking off rounds would make heat management a bit more important...

[Voivode]

I think a slight uptick in the ammo explosion chance would round out the game, sure. I like the idea of flamer crits hitting ammo only, makes the flamer a dangerous weapon in the right circumstances. I like the idea of C.A.S.E. providing ammo crit protection as well. Simple and effective. I'm sold!

[Joseph Mallan]

TygerLily, on 22 January 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

I'd be in favor of a high ammo explosion chance whenever you shutdown from heat. You already take some damage from it but cooking off rounds would make heat management a bit more important...

And Mechs blowing up from Ammo cook off would look so dam cool!

[Ambuscade]

Didn't have the CASE protecting ammo from crits, but its a nice idea for sure.

Ambuscade

[Bront]

I like the concept of ammo explosions being a bigger risk, but I'm not 100% sure if i like the entire implementation. It does mean you need to manage your heat more with ballistics though at least.

I'd be for a potential ammo explosion when you overheat (say, a chance at 110%).

The biggest reason I worry about it though it's it's a huge nerf to energy mechs with AMS, who don't really need a nerf,

[Ambuscade]

A good point about the AMS Bront. However, how many tons of ammo do pilots run for AMS these days? Wouldn't it be easy to store it in CASE equipped torsos or the head?

Ambuscade

[Voivode]

Ambuscade, on 22 January 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

Didn't have the CASE protecting ammo from crits, but its a nice idea for sure.

Ambuscade

Well, I would consider reducing the chance of ammo auto exploding on crit hit that didn't otherwise destroy it a form of protection. That is what I meant.

Bront, on 22 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

I like the concept of ammo explosions being a bigger risk, but I'm not 100% sure if i like the entire implementation. It does mean you need to manage your heat more with ballistics though at least.

I'd be for a potential ammo explosion when you overheat (say, a chance at 110%).

The biggest reason I worry about it though it's it's a huge nerf to energy mechs with AMS, who don't really need a nerf,

According to smurfy the ammo explosion damage from AMS ammo is 0.024, so even if it affected AMS ammo that wouldn't cause much trouble.

Edited by Voivode, 22 January 2014 - 11:27 AM.

[Bront]

Voivode, on 22 January 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

According to smurfy the ammo explosion damage from AMS ammo is 0.024, so even if it affected AMS ammo that wouldn't cause much trouble.

Yeah, that's less bad than I had thought.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

That, and when there's no remaining armor surrounding the cockpit the glass should be charred around the side views *from flamers. Impact marks would be nice from other weapons as well, like little bullets on a bullet proof glass effect or big, big bullets or even.... lightning bolts (PPC) breaking through on death headshot!

Sell that one to the masses, who knows, maybe PGI will spoon feed us

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 22 January 2014 - 11:57 AM.

[Ambuscade]

Quote

That, and when there's no remaining armor surrounding the cockpit the glass should be charred around the side views *from flamers. Impact marks would be nice from other weapons as well, like little bullets on a bullet proof glass effect or big, big bullets or even.... lightning bolts (PPC) breaking through on death headshot!

I'd be all for flamer bonus damage to the pilot

Ambuscade

[Trauglodyte]

Bront, on 22 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

I like the concept of ammo explosions being a bigger risk, but I'm not 100% sure if i like the entire implementation. It does mean you need to manage your heat more with ballistics though at least.

I'd be for a potential ammo explosion when you overheat (say, a chance at 110%).

The biggest reason I worry about it though it's it's a huge nerf to energy mechs with AMS, who don't really need a nerf,

The thing is, and I'm a little bad about that myself, people don't have to manage their heat. You can take double Coolants and then stagger fire to keep from shutting down. But, if you're good, you'll push 100% heat full time. Where is the draw back from that when you can maintain firing?

The truth is, ammo needs to cook off due to heat and you need to suffer from heat effects. I"ve been saying this since day 1 of OB and I feel like I keep falling on deaf ears.

• Have a linear scale on ammo cooking off as heat rises past 20%
  
• Add in a linear drop off of efficiencies, minus the Heast Sink impact (doesn't make sense if you think about it), up to -200% of max.
  
• Increase JJ recharge, too, as heat escalates
  
• Add in HUD flicker and a slight JJ like convergence issue as you move

If PGI wants to sell this as a thinking man's shooter, it needs to make you think. Right now, the only thought is "can I kill it/them before it/they kill me"?

[Ambuscade]

Are your suggestions in combination with mine Trauglodyte is it a counter argument? Any additions to the heat mechanic are a plus for me. However, I would approach spontaneous ammo cook-offs delicately (even if its at high heat levels).

Ambuscade

[Trauglodyte]

In addition to.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Bront, on 22 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

I like the concept of ammo explosions being a bigger risk, but I'm not 100% sure if i like the entire implementation. It does mean you need to manage your heat more with ballistics though at least.

I'd be for a potential ammo explosion when you overheat (say, a chance at 110%).

The biggest reason I worry about it though it's it's a huge nerf to energy mechs with AMS, who don't really need a nerf,

So exclude AMS ammo from this.

[nemesis271989]

Ambuscade, on 22 January 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

I figured since there are no heat penalties, heat only causes shutdown, and flamers can't shutdown enemy mechs I'd try and invent something unique to the heat mechanics. Just shooting until I overheat with the only consequence being shutdown and engine damage is lackluster.

Ambuscade

What you did is that you took something obvious or making sense. For example throw a 120mm shell in a campfire and see what it does

[Pjwned]

I like the idea about flamers being more effective against ammo but not sure how much I agree with everything else.