518 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 22 January 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Because it's NOT happy. It's yet another example of not understanding the problem, like ghost heat.

I want better than this, these guys keep pooping on a franchise that I grew up with.

I've played about 6 games in my 2D2 since he announced it. And not once have I thought "Man, I wish I had that new NARC in one of my 4 missile slots instead of my Streaks".

I WANT this stuff to matter, but it doesn't.

I grew up with this franchise and I don't see them pooping on it at all. Which customer is right?

[Roadbeer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 22 January 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Because it's NOT happy. It's yet another example of not understanding the problem, like ghost heat.

I want better than this, these guys keep pooping on a franchise that I grew up with.

I've played about 6 games in my 2D2 since he announced it. And not once have I thought "Man, I wish I had that new NARC in one of my 4 missile slots instead of my Streaks".

I WANT this stuff to matter, but it doesn't.

[Sable]

can we also have EMP ammo so that small mechs can scramble radar on missile boats? EHH EHH??

[Hauser]

Paul Inouye, on 22 January 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

After reading through that lovely NARC thread, I'm going to side with you guys and do 2 things to it.

First off, NARC will no longer be disabled/knocked off through damage. It will last its full duration.

Secondly, NARC will receive the EMP effect on ECM.

This will likely come shortly after Feb 4th due to the size of the Feb 4th patch.


Peace out -

So if the mech with NARC attached is shield by ECM will he be visible? Or will ECM only be pierced if the Narc is attached to the ECM mech itself?

[Heffay]

Hauser, on 22 January 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

So if the mech with NARC attached is shield by ECM will he be visible? Or will ECM only be pierced if the Narc is attached to the ECM mech itself?

Since the NARC is a transmitter, if the mech affected by it is in an ECM bubble, he shouldn't be visible. You'll have to NARC the D-DC and then all the mechs will be visible.

[MischiefSC]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 22 January 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Because it's NOT happy. It's yet another example of not understanding the problem, like ghost heat.

I want better than this, these guys keep pooping on a franchise that I grew up with.

I've played about 6 games in my 2D2 since he announced it. And not once have I thought "Man, I wish I had that new NARC in one of my 4 missile slots instead of my Streaks".

I WANT this stuff to matter, but it doesn't.

No, but I'd freaking love it on my Locust and I'd absolutely put one on my Battlemaster 1G - that one freaking worthless pile-o-{Scrap} missile hardpoint. I'd put one on my Jenner too - freaking comedy gold to slip up, plop one on a D-DCs back in Caustic or Frozen and watch the heavens open up as for 30 seconds he may as well be slapping a den full of lions with his wedding tackle for all the rage that will fall on him.

It's not for your light-hunter medium, or your DPS heavy or your brawling assault. It's going to be a must-have for lights in Skirmish and it'll see a big resurgence in LRMs. Scout up, pop one on the enemy D-DC and watch him run for cover. UAVs let you do this but they were destructible and only single use. The ability to ruin someones day 6 times every match? That's never going to get old.

[DocBach]

Heffay, on 22 January 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

Since the NARC is a transmitter, if the mech affected by it is in an ECM bubble, he shouldn't be visible. You'll have to NARC the D-DC and then all the mechs will be visible.

If a target is hit by Narc and is in the ECM bubble, and NARC can now burn through ECM, just his 'Mech should be visible through the ECM field.

If the D-DC is hit, then the whole bubble pops.

Edited by DocBach, 22 January 2014 - 01:05 PM.

[Sandpit]

This thread is devolving into another case of "PGI doesn't listen!" which translates to "PGI didn't listen specifically and soley to my idea which would have single-handedly saved this game and franchise"

[Jman5]

Sounds like a solid improvement. I hope this is the start of more weapon balance changes.

Edited by Jman5, 22 January 2014 - 01:14 PM.

[ZonbiBadger]

Mister Blastman, on 22 January 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

.....................

Okay. Step 1 in right direction.

Next step... what to do with PPCs/ACs?

Splash damage on PPCs mayhaps? (with decreasing splash to none at max effective range and big splash up close) Projectiles inherit mech velocity, mayhaps? Big ACs multi-shotting mayhaps? PPCs with beam duration?

Ammo explosion critical chance increased 1000x, mayhaps? Ammo explosion damage increased?

LBX Cannons doing MOAR damage... say 1.4x to 1.8x?

Field inhibitor override with dire possible consequences?
I know I'm asking a lot here... but...

For one thing LBX are already doing awesome damage.

[Mister Blastman]

ZonbiBadger, on 22 January 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

For one thing LBX are already doing awesome damage.

No.

They're bottom-tier trash. They do horrible damage at any reasonable range due to spread (the damage counts it just is spread between multiple components).

What they need is a bigtime damage buff per pellet so up close, they outperform the AC/10 and at range, they underperform it.

That's balance.

As it is now, there is little reason to take a standard AC/10 over the LBX unless you're desperate for that extra ton and you're hurting yourself if you do.

[Prezimonto]

Will it cancel ECM the ECM field, provide a bubble of cancellation, or will it just reveal the one mech?

I'm still in favor of the first two options. It's a heavy, relatively large item, it eats a missile hard point(and not a head point), it needs ammo, and the it's got a very slow travel time and only medium range. I think it'd be great if it totally shut off ECM for the 20 seconds... or canceled the ECM field in a 100m radius around the target.

[Roadbeer]

Mister Blastman, on 22 January 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

{stuff}

I figured you'd be a bigger fan of the LBX, it's pinpoint accuracy is somewhat at the same level as your ability to stay on topic.

[Corvus Antaka]

[Prezimonto]

Mister Blastman, on 22 January 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

No.

They're bottom-tier trash. They do horrible damage at any reasonable range due to spread (the damage counts it just is spread between multiple components).

What they need is a bigtime damage buff per pellet so up close, they outperform the AC/10 and at range, they underperform it.

That's balance.

As it is now, there is little reason to take a standard AC/10 over the LBX unless you're desperate for that extra ton and you're hurting yourself if you do.

It'd be interesting if the close range for the LBX was something like 270, but each pellet did 2 points of damage... or if each pellet did 3 and fell off to 1 by the listed "main" range. It'd be a pretty mean brawling weapon.

[627]

Hell YEAH!!!

Finally!

Now that's what I'm calling aggressive balancing! Time to change my X-5 back to scouting

[wanderer]

NARC will act as a haywire pod vs. ECM now and is damage-resistant?

Closer to iNARC the same way ECM is to Angel ECM. A definite improvement, may even put it into "worth using". Finally.

[General Taskeen]

1st. The thing about duration - Yes. Thanks.

2nd. Why would NARC have an EMP affect?

I'm assuming because of the way the current things are programmed.

But, Please tell me that is temporary while you work on a better, deeper solution between direct, indirect firing, radar, and ECM.

Seriously the way indirect fire and the way ECM interacts with it is completely backwards in this game.

In other words, TAG/NARC are supposed to be the traditional tools allowing LRM Indirect Fire. I outlined this in the thread linked in my sig, which should be the reason in the first place to use them.

Basically there are multiple things not working right:

* TAG/NARC not needed necessarily for indirect fire, because anyone can target a Mech, and then suddenly your pals can shoot over an obstacle (first problem)
* The first problem is why LRMs were constantly buffed/debuffed and messing with arcs, because the radar system itself is simply not fleshed out properly (in other words, people get "rained" on, behind cover, since the enemy just needs to target you, rather than using an indirect firing tool) - The originally way things were programmed were when TAG/NARC/ECM did not exist in the game.
* ECM blocks missiles from firing even if someone has line of sight (ECM is should be blocking Indirect Fire and tools that allow Indirect Fire, like NARC - and should not be blocking missile fire at all when you can see something) (second problem)

^
The second problem also has its interactions completely messing up Stock Mechs as well, essentially going against the grain. In a perfect MWO balancing world, I would imagine teams using ECM to prevent indirect fire would be a much more interesting decision with 'role warfare' or general team make-up, but once that team comes out in the open, they can then be fired on. That would be imperfect balance.


But now it is backwards - now NARC goes through ECM (according to this new Dev post), instead of ECM shutting off NARC, since NARC is already missing its traditional abilities for enhanced Indirect Fire.


Even previous MechWarrior titles got this right in 3 separate iterations, why can't MWO? You simply could not fire your LRMs at stuff you couldn't see, even if it was on your radar or your friends radar saw a target. You A. had to see it yourself, or 2, make sure your mech pals were using TAG/NARC - it gave a clear reason to use them. NARC was always the 50/50, "Well, if their team or some Mech has ECM, my NARC is useless for Indirect Fire, so I might need to bring a TAG as well or someone else in the Lance better be using TAG just in case of ECM." Then if all else failed and nobody could fire their missiles over things, hey, at least you could still use them if the enemy arrived in your line of sights.


This is a very small start to making NARC do something, but the whole interaction between radar, indirect firing tools, and ecm is in a serious need of a redo.

Edited by General Taskeen, 22 January 2014 - 02:09 PM.

[Sug]

Is this real life?

[Heffay]

General Taskeen, on 22 January 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

In other words, TAG/NARC are supposed to be the traditional tools allowing LRM Indirect Fire. I outlined this in the thread linked in my sig.

Because most LRM mechs would be powerless in pug matches if this was the case. Just because it's not canon doesn't mean this isn't better gameplay.