518 replies to this topic

[xengk]

MischiefSC, on 22 January 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

No, but I'd freaking love it on my Locust and I'd absolutely put one on my Battlemaster 1G - that one freaking worthless pile-o-{Scrap} missile hardpoint. I'd put one on my Jenner too - freaking comedy gold to slip up, plop one on a D-DCs back in Caustic or Frozen and watch the heavens open up as for 30 seconds he may as well be slapping a den full of lions with his wedding tackle for all the rage that will fall on him.

It's not for your light-hunter medium, or your DPS heavy or your brawling assault. It's going to be a must-have for lights in Skirmish and it'll see a big resurgence in LRMs. Scout up, pop one on the enemy D-DC and watch him run for cover. UAVs let you do this but they were destructible and only single use. The ability to ruin someones day 6 times every match? That's never going to get old.

Wonders how long before the "NARC IS OP NERF NOW!!!1one" thread will appear.

[xengk]

Sephlock, on 22 January 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d2d24514b83bebe

?

RVN-3L

[Roadbeer]

Chronojam, on 22 January 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

Stop your usual sycophantic white noise posting for a moment and realize that when people asked for changes to information warfare and role warfare, they never for a moment thought they were requesting "NARC disables ECM Gear" -- especially because this idea was just announced here for the first time yet is presumably already sent out for development since it's supposed to be coming shortly after the Feb 4. patch as per the OP.

Wait, isn't the usual complaint that weapon changes are nothing more than modifying an XML file? If that's the case, then one could assume that the recent NARC thread was the impetus of the change. Either way, it's not a new suggestion. Nor a new topic.

As far as the sycophantic white noise... there is a collection of lovely posters who ***** about no change going far enough, or any change being too much.
Is it ideal? No, is it a move in the right direction? yes.

[Chronojam]

Roadbeer, on 22 January 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

Wait, isn't the usual complaint that weapon changes are nothing more than modifying an XML file? If that's the case, then one could assume that the recent NARC thread was the impetus of the change. Either way, it's not a new suggestion. Nor a new topic.

As far as the sycophantic white noise... there is a collection of lovely posters who ***** about no change going far enough, or any change being too much.
Is it ideal? No, is it a move in the right direction? yes.

Wrong again! The typical complaint is that compelling weapon changes are not ever provided despite the simplicity of providing those changes. PGI never bothers to edit the XML file, no. And if they do, they half*** it and sure as hell don't ever bounce it off the community or put it on the test server.

Mindboggling changes just show up one day, without rhyme or reason. We've been waiting since July to hear back about the coming SRM and brawling changes -- the Aggressive Balance Changes that never happened were supposed to include those.

We've been waiting since September to hear back about the ghost heat fixes for the AC/2 and other associated oddities. Those new tweaks did not come.

Suddenly, out of the blue, some random thread about NARC (out of all the threads about how to make NARC desirable or increase ease of use via even simple fittings changes from the past years) is selected to be the golden ticket winner before the month's up. "To hell with SRM fixes, let's add a brand new out-of-left-field fully-untested feature to the NARC and sure as hell not let the players themselves test it!" And the ease-of-deployment tweaks everybody has wanted in every NARC thread ever, including this one? Very conspicuously absent, not even a token ammo boost.

Edited by Chronojam, 22 January 2014 - 09:16 PM.

[XphR]

Narc was given an ammo boost that made it more forgivable to carry, when you could send them sailing over long distances I loved Narc sniping. We need more forward momentum(and more graded incremental tweaking{as opposed to jumping from a to b to a again}) but its not so unforgivable to address an information warfare tool.

[kesuga7]

perhaps my recon raven shall be even better for spotting
The change is great but its gonna be odd to see lrm boats with NARC now

Recon raven*
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a50b7bfd3e1e71b

anyway here is dead thread of said build ;p http://mwomercs.com/...44#entry2897444

Edited by kesuga7, 22 January 2014 - 10:00 PM.

[Prezimonto]

Again, if the new NARC will actually shut down ECM bubbles, this single change has the potential to completely shift the meta of the game away from ECM covered poptarts. This is actually a very small change that could have a very big impact on how people play this game. This is a good thing, and a smart choice from the end of a pile of developers who are either very busy, very lazy, or perhaps some of both.

Small investment for large reward... I can actually understand why they choose this one over some of the other issues in the game.

[kesuga7]

Prezimonto, on 22 January 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

Again, if the new NARC will actually shut down ECM bubbles, this single change has the potential to completely shift the meta of the game away from ECM covered poptarts. This is actually a very small change that could have a very big impact on how people play this game. This is a good thing, and a smart choice from the end of a pile of developers who are either very busy, very lazy, or perhaps some of both.

Small investment for large reward... I can actually understand why they choose this one over some of the other issues in the game.

at least its gonna take up 5-6 tonns right?
Jumpjets and a misslehard point with 4 tonn weapon you could use for something else

[Serpieri]

Nice, can you take a look at heat next and energy weapons?

[Prezimonto]

kesuga7, on 22 January 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

at least its gonna take up 5-6 tonns right?
Jumpjets and a misslehard point with 4 tonn weapon you could use for something else

I think you misunderstand.

If NARC can kill an ECM bubble, and isn't stopped by damage... then putting a NARC beacon on a poptart in mid air will open that poptart up for 20 seconds of constant LRM fire. It also would be a way to counter ECM fields wholesale... opening the game up for a more rock>paper>scissors approach to IW.... NARC beats ECM beats no ECM.

In short... while an expensive item for no damage, if it can change the flow of the game by killing ECM and revealing poptarts after they land... it's a very big potential to shift builds/play style and the general thinking about what's the best loadout/team composition.

[Corbon Zackery]

Its a beacon that's magnetically attached to the hull of a mech it doesn't fall off or last only 30sec. Nor is it affected by damage. Unless you physically get out of your cockpit and remove it.



Causing quite a stir when it was introduced in 2587, the Narc system offered a radically different way of improve missile target acquisition. The Narc launcher fires special missiles called pods, which have a powerful homing beacon behind a magnetic head.
The reason the Narc system is superior to the similar Artemis IV FCS is that the target lock is never broken because the homing beacon is attached to the target, and that other friendly 'Mechs can fire missiles equipped to follow the signal without carrying their own Narc beacons.
However the Narc system is not without flaws, the main one being its short range. Narc equipped LRMs have double the range of a Narc pod, requiring either a dedicated spotter to close and tag enemies with Narc pods or for the launching 'Mech to close, tag and pull back to fire, a less than ideal arrangement. Also SRMs and LRMs equipped to track the Narc homing signal cost twice as much as standard munitions. These disadvantages led to the creation of alternate Narc ammunition such as the Explosive Pod to give the launcher more tactical flexibility and the Improved Narc Missile Beacon offering increased the range.

ECM is suppose to prevent any signals from the NARC beacon going out. Its the perfect counter to the weapon and forces people to group up next to a ECM mech making them better targets for Arty and airstrikes.


So it really needs to be heavily modified its one of the least used systems in game due to the restrictions the dev. team has put in place. When a system is not used its suppose to be revamped into a useable item.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 22 January 2014 - 10:14 PM.

[kesuga7]

Prezimonto, on 22 January 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

I think you misunderstand.

If NARC can kill an ECM bubble, and isn't stopped by damage... then putting a NARC beacon on a poptart in mid air will open that poptart up for 20 seconds of constant LRM fire. It also would be a way to counter ECM fields wholesale... opening the game up for a more rock>paper>scissors approach to IW.... NARC beats ECM beats no ECM.

In short... while an expensive item for no damage, if it can change the flow of the game by killing ECM and revealing poptarts after they land... it's a very big potential to shift builds/play style and the general thinking about what's the best loadout/team composition.

heh yeah tought you mean't lrm boats popping up and narcing
poptart spotter weapon?

sounds legit and since its no damage and takes so much tonnage it gonna be nice
oh my

Edited by kesuga7, 22 January 2014 - 10:15 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Chronojam, on 22 January 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

Wrong again! The typical complaint is that compelling weapon changes are not ever provided despite the simplicity of providing those changes. PGI never bothers to edit the XML file, no. And if they do, they half*** it and sure as hell don't ever bounce it off the community or put it on the test server.

Mindboggling changes just show up one day, without rhyme or reason. We've been waiting since July to hear back about the coming SRM and brawling changes -- the Aggressive Balance Changes that never happened were supposed to include those.

We've been waiting since September to hear back about the ghost heat fixes for the AC/2 and other associated oddities. Those new tweaks did not come.

Suddenly, out of the blue, some random thread about NARC (out of all the threads about how to make NARC desirable or increase ease of use via even simple fittings changes from the past years) is selected to be the golden ticket winner before the month's up. "To hell with SRM fixes, let's add a brand new out-of-left-field fully-untested feature to the NARC and sure as hell not let the players themselves test it!" And the ease-of-deployment tweaks everybody has wanted in every NARC thread ever, including this one? Very conspicuously absent, not even a token ammo boost.

Yawn, stretch.... something new? Nope.
Do you even still play?

[MustrumRidcully]

Keep in mind that the Narc breaking ECM might work exactly like PPC disabling ECM - it works only for a few seconds.

The current version of Narc allows you to target a mech even if he's ECM protected, but only the mech you hit with the Narc.

I think full duration + no damage threshold + 3-4 second ECM EMP is a decent mix, and beyond that, I would focus on two aspects:
- Quality of Life: The Narc missile is very slow, actually hitting an enemy with it is very difficult, and that overall makes the high tonnage investment questionable
- Duration Changes: If the weapon needs any absolute power buffs, I would raise the duration of the general "target bonus" effect.


EDIT:
We unfortunately lack a really good terminology on the different possible effects
- Targeting a mech despite ECM (what Narc and TAG can already do)
- Disabling ECM (What PPCs do temporarily and BAP or ECM in Counter mode do constantly when in range)

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 22 January 2014 - 11:25 PM.

[Sephlock]

If the changes don't get reversed super quick, I wonder if we'll see anyone dropping artemis in favor of narc + tag...

[El Bandito]

Chronojam, on 22 January 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

Wrong again! The typical complaint is that compelling weapon changes are not ever provided despite the simplicity of providing those changes. PGI never bothers to edit the XML file, no. And if they do, they half*** it and sure as hell don't ever bounce it off the community or put it on the test server.

Mindboggling changes just show up one day, without rhyme or reason. We've been waiting since July to hear back about the coming SRM and brawling changes -- the Aggressive Balance Changes that never happened were supposed to include those.

We've been waiting since September to hear back about the ghost heat fixes for the AC/2 and other associated oddities. Those new tweaks did not come.

Suddenly, out of the blue, some random thread about NARC (out of all the threads about how to make NARC desirable or increase ease of use via even simple fittings changes from the past years) is selected to be the golden ticket winner before the month's up. "To hell with SRM fixes, let's add a brand new out-of-left-field fully-untested feature to the NARC and sure as hell not let the players themselves test it!" And the ease-of-deployment tweaks everybody has wanted in every NARC thread ever, including this one? Very conspicuously absent, not even a token ammo boost.

Exactly. What the hell is the balance team doing all day? Sticking their thumb up their arses while watching Attack on Titan?

[Kjudoon]

Deathlike, on 22 January 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

The "projectile" speed for this "missile" is actually SLOWER than the AC20. Think of this for a moment. Unlike the AC20 (which already demands a lot from the mech), there isn't really instant damage outside of LRM boats covering the skies. Of course, positioning is key, to reduce the effectiveness of missile in general, so there will be a lot more cover play involved at the higher ELO brackets.

Emphasis mine.

I want you to realize that this is almost 5 times... thats 500% faster than your average LRMs. SRMs move at 300m/s. Streaks move at 200m/s. By insane comparison, AC2s travel at 2000m/s and PPCs (you know lightning which is as fast as light) moves at 1500m/s. NARF?!?

Anyway... Can we get ALL LRMS to move this fast so it does not take just under 8 whole seconds to get to max range? Well how about as fast as SRMs then? Come on, help a LRMbrother out?

Still loving the idea of these NARC buffs. I'll swap a LL for one of em with 2 tons of ammo if it frells up ECM trolls and threats.

xengk, on 22 January 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

Wonders how long before the "NARC IS OP NERF NOW!!!1one" thread will appear.

the day the patch happens and the first spider discovers he's mortal after all.

Prezimonto, on 22 January 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

I think you misunderstand.

If NARC can kill an ECM bubble, and isn't stopped by damage... then putting a NARC beacon on a poptart in mid air will open that poptart up for 20 seconds of constant LRM fire. It also would be a way to counter ECM fields wholesale... opening the game up for a more rock>paper>scissors approach to IW.... NARC beats ECM beats no ECM.

In short... while an expensive item for no damage, if it can change the flow of the game by killing ECM and revealing poptarts after they land... it's a very big potential to shift builds/play style and the general thinking about what's the best loadout/team composition.

Do I need to play "Ode to Joy" for you again? Do I? Really? The Poptart meta is gonna meet the LRMtart counter. Life just got REAL interesting.

Edited by Kjudoon, 23 January 2014 - 01:11 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Corbon Zackery, on 22 January 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

lots of accurate lore stuff

Lore is dead. We're playing PGIwarrior Online. It's just the way it's gonna be... and some ways, better.

[Naduk]

I think ecm should still stop narc
But narc should be much more scary than it is now
In bt lore ecm was developed to counter narc and other items

Make it so that narc provides a full lock on to everyone on the field
Use the enemies own lrm power against them with narc

Or give it a bubble just like ecm
Any missile that flys within the narc 300m bubble automatically targets the narced unit

Make ecm use important to the prevention of narc devastation

Either way it's nice to see narc getting some of Paul's attention

[Latorque]

Good for the lights i think (as long as the godawful invincible Spider is fixed someday)... but yay... another mechanic that makes LRMs more effective . Well; at least it's a fix.