518 replies to this topic

[Reno Blade]

I'd love to see the missile faster. Tracking doesn't help if you want to tag a ECM'ed target.

MustrumRidcully, on 22 January 2014 - 11:24 PM, said:

EDIT:
We unfortunately lack a really good terminology on the different possible effects
- Targeting a mech despite ECM (what Narc and TAG can already do)
- Disabling ECM (What PPCs do temporarily and BAP or ECM in Counter mode do constantly when in range)

The first one can be called penetrating ECM (or penetrator).
The PPC effect is called EMP effect (or disabler/negator).

[Alistair Winter]

Good job, Paul!

Edited by Alistair Winter, 23 January 2014 - 02:02 AM.

[Frankdark]

Ok, let´s check.

TT
ECM scrambels Artemis and Narc Effekts

MWO
ECM Scrambels complet lookon and Narc canncel ECM


In Real
ECM is easy to Spot, but hides anything is scrambling range.
So you see one Point but not 4 Mechs around.

ECM is a perfect Lockon for special systems and easy to target

ECM Scrambles signals and a Nacr would send out signals?!?.


=================


Suggestion


To make it work better.

ECM Cancels Artemis and Nacr effect in 180m
ECM Clockes ONLY other Mechs araund 180m

Narc gives Enemy Position for 2 Min even wen not in Sight of a Mech
Narc can be used to Log on for Missiles. NArc logon gives 50% damage to Narc owner.


That would make
Narc very interesting for Light mechs to Mark enemy Mechs ( new job )
Nerfs a bit ECM becouse it´s overpowerd

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

xengk, on 22 January 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

RVN-3L

Forgot tag

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...498ef1c1ce0157b

[kapusta11]

We're about to face a new lrm apocalypse, narc light + 2 or 3 lrm boats will make the most of that 20 seconds.

[fandre]

NARC should be disabled for some seconds by PPC hits, like ECM.

[wanderer]

Basically, what we've got here is a NARC round that works a lot like the iNARC ammo which puts an ECCM field on the target- effectively 30 seconds of "counter mode".

AND it gets the usual NARC beacon effect. If GECM in MWO is GECM+1 tabletop, this is NARC+1. It's gonna be nightmare fuel for slower 'Mechs- a scout can now NARC, leaving the target visible and easily tracked by every enemy LRM around.

That translates to "get your shiny metal butt in cover because the rain is coming". It's also a suppression weapon- a poptarter/ridge humper with NARC on isn't going to want to do anything except button up until the beacon powers down with this change. It also means breaking visual doesn't mean losing sensor contact while this is active.

The more I think about NARC, the better I like the new version.

[MustrumRidcully]

By the way, if anyone is looking for since when narc allows to target a mech through ECM, this is the only relevant, official post I could find so far:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2327569

Thomas Dziegielewski said:

A bug fix should also make it in tomorrow giving the NARC the power it should have had since it's conception. It will overpower ECM.

-If a target is NARCed it will now show up for all NARC team allies for 15 sec.
-ECM will NOT protect the NARCed target from showing up for allies.
-If a mech takes 40 points of damage the NARC will 'fall off'.

Interestingly, it's not mentioned in the patch notes of the next two patches, at least not that I could find it.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 23 January 2014 - 05:10 AM.

[Lucky Noob]

Ahhhhhh, Paul i want your Childs

Tytytytytyty <3

[Noesis]

I'm glad some Dev had the courage to post this.

(ty Paul)

[Zyllos]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2327569

Actually, what happened to these changes?

I remember NARC cutting through GECM at one point in time, but then it stopped doing it later but I really never noticed because it still had the 40 damage duration on it.

[Bishop Steiner]

CYBRN4CR, on 22 January 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

OMG THANK YOU!

A 3 ton ammo dependent, straight firing, 30 second EMP on ECM will make NARC niiiiice. ECM soon will have something to fear.

eh, don't wanna be the killjoy to the hate party, but even as was, my clan used a light NARC/TAG spotter and 3 LRM boat lance to some pretty devastating effect, for months now. With it not falling off from damage? That is better than the EMP, as being able to "TAG" without LOS is pretty useful to a coordinated lance. On Tourmaline in particular, I have found sneaking up and NARCing the backside of enemy mechs whilst my lance targets them from the front to be pretty effective. (Unless of course they tried to run away, and then usually got the NARC hit AND found my Raven). With it lasting the full 30 seconds, regardless? It's worth it for dedicated support lances now.

[MustrumRidcully]

Zyllos, on 23 January 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2327569

Actually, what happened to these changes?

I remember NARC cutting through GECM at one point in time, but then it stopped doing it later but I really never noticed because it still had the 40 damage duration on it.

Are you saying that doesn't work anymore, but it did at some point?

Oh man, this is really complicated. But maybe it will finally be irrelevant with the upcoming change, and we can forget how things used to work, were supposed to work, did work once... and just focus on how it works then.

[General Taskeen]

Heffay, on 22 January 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Because most LRM mechs would be powerless in pug matches if this was the case. Just because it's not canon doesn't mean this isn't better gameplay.

Prove it instead of providing conjecture.

Basically what you just said makes no sense. An LRM Mech can already be inherently WEAK in the current gameplay. In every "pug match" there is ECM present and practically every time I join with LRMs loaded with no "PGI counters™" (C1 stock weapon loadout, with DHS) it ends with several tons of useless weaponry.

And lulz what's this out in the open? Oh an Wild ECM Mech, I guess I can't fire at it when I see it. I need counter-intuitive programming to make my stock loadout to work, that could work in Canon.

Were LRMs Mechs weak in say MW4 or MW:LL just because they couldn't fire at something over an obstacle in a "pug match"? Nope.

I've tested this game long enough to compare its pitfalls to previous MechWarrior games. Radar in the Beta felt absolutely placeholder and when the Raven was introduced with TAG/NARC/ECM, PGI programmed around the placeholder.

[DocBach]

MustrumRidcully, on 23 January 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

Are you saying that doesn't work anymore, but it did at some point?

I don't think they ever put that in. It sounds like it was something Thomas worked on that they didn't get around into actually implementing, but now they are.

Edited by DocBach, 23 January 2014 - 07:23 AM.

[Zyllos]

I am almost certain it worked at one point...but...now that I think about it, I think I am getting it confused with the idea that the TIME was increased to 30s, but the damage was still happening. So I was happy that it lasted longer but then noticed the damage duration was still an issue so I just dropped it again.

Now, I am almost certain that was what it was...sorry for the confusion.

Edited by Zyllos, 23 January 2014 - 07:52 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

lol...so not only is this the quarterly fix...it's something we were suppose to have months ago that they forgot about?

And by the way a lot of this is conjecture since Paul, as per his usual self, did not provide details of how the counter will work.

[DocBach]

......yes

[Heffay]

General Taskeen, on 23 January 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

Prove it instead of providing conjecture.

Basically what you just said makes no sense. An LRM Mech can already be inherently WEAK in the current gameplay. In every "pug match" there is ECM present and practically every time I join with LRMs loaded with no "PGI counters™" (C1 stock weapon loadout, with DHS) it ends with several tons of useless weaponry.

And lulz what's this out in the open? Oh an Wild ECM Mech, I guess I can't fire at it when I see it. I need counter-intuitive programming to make my stock loadout to work, that could work in Canon.

Were LRMs Mechs weak in say MW4 or MW:LL just because they couldn't fire at something over an obstacle in a "pug match"? Nope.

I've tested this game long enough to compare its pitfalls to previous MechWarrior games. Radar in the Beta felt absolutely placeholder and when the Raven was introduced with TAG/NARC/ECM, PGI programmed around the placeholder.

There are dozens of posts about how this will improve gameplay.

There is also many ways to implement the system. Theirs is one. You have a different idea. That doesn't mean PGI's implementation is wrong, or not fun. Different solution is different, and a much needed buff to role warfare, NARCs and lights in general.

[MustrumRidcully]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 January 2014 - 08:26 AM, said:

lol...so not only is this the quarterly fix...it's something we were suppose to have months ago that they forgot about?

And by the way a lot of this is conjecture since Paul, as per his usual self, did not provide details of how the counter will work.

Well, the description Thomas gave back then and Paul's description seem different - Thomas merely describes you being able to target an enemy with a Narc even if he's inside an ECM field, but Paul's description sounds like it would completely disable ECM.

But... well, the information is vague. Cannot someone else but me stop being lazy and test Narc in game and tell us if the feature Thomas describes still works? I am almost certain it used to, but it's been so long.