518 replies to this topic

[Coralld]

Deathlike, on 24 January 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

TAG actually stacks with Artemis, and yet TAG only consumes a lot less resources outside of constant LOS with the TAG. NARCs currently get NEITHER bonus.

http://mwomercs.com/...23-21-may-2013/

TAG+Artemis do not stack. Only NARC+TAG will stack.

Incorrect, TAG+Artemis do stack. Copy and pasted from your thread link where I underlined and boldened where it says it does.

"- Bonuses from TAG stack with those from Narc or Artemis, but an Artemis equipped Mech receives no bonuses from Narc Beacons
- e.g. TAG and Narc together reduce the time to achieve a missile lock to 37.5% of the normal time (50% of 75%).

TAG, Narc, and Artemis now reduce the size of the overall size and spread of the missile formations.

- TAG reduces the spread of missile formations to 75% of their normal size.
- Narc reduces the spread of missile formations to 75% of their normal size.
- Artemis reduces the spread of missile formations to 67% of their normal size when the Mech has line of sight to its target.
- Bonuses from TAG stack with those from Narc or Artemis, but an Artemis equipped Mech receives no bonuses from Narc Beacons.
- e.g. TAG and Narc together reduce the spread of missile formations to 56.3% of the normal size (75% of 75%)."

As you can see, nothing in there that says TAG does not stack with Artemis. In short...
TAG+NARC=Yes
TAG+Artemis=Yes
NARC+Artemis=No

Edited by Coralld, 24 January 2014 - 03:02 PM.

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

I just peed myself a little

[Mystere]

ReXspec, on 24 January 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Does this mean PGI actually listens to good suggestions...?

Everything I know is a lie. .-.

Do you want me as your kaishakunin?

[Deathlike]

Coralld, on 24 January 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

Incorrect, TAG+Artemis do stack. Copy and pasted from your thread link where I underlined and boldened where it says it does.

"- Bonuses from TAG stack with those from Narc or Artemis, but an Artemis equipped Mech receives no bonuses from Narc Beacons
- e.g. TAG and Narc together reduce the time to achieve a missile lock to 37.5% of the normal time (50% of 75%).

TAG, Narc, and Artemis now reduce the size of the overall size and spread of the missile formations.

- TAG reduces the spread of missile formations to 75% of their normal size.
- Narc reduces the spread of missile formations to 75% of their normal size.
- Artemis reduces the spread of missile formations to 67% of their normal size when the Mech has line of sight to its target.
- Bonuses from TAG stack with those from Narc or Artemis, but an Artemis equipped Mech receives no bonuses from Narc Beacons.
- e.g. TAG and Narc together reduce the spread of missile formations to 56.3% of the normal size (75% of 75%)."

As you can see, nothing in there that says TAG does not stack with Artemis. In short...
TAG+NARC=Yes
TAG+Artemis=Yes
NARC+Artemis=No

I meant to write NARC does not stack with Artemis. My bad.

[Coralld]

Deathlike, on 24 January 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

I meant to write NARC does not stack with Artemis. My bad.

Yeah, NARC does not stack with Artemis, we are on the same page here. I think what happened was that you didn't get that I was being sarcastic? Because if PGI really did make all three stackable that would make LRMs crazy OP.

I think I may have been mistaken when saying NARC only gives missiles accuracy bonus while you have line of site, I think it gives missile accuracy bonus regardless like TAG does.

Edited by Coralld, 24 January 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[ReXspec]

Mystere, on 24 January 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Do you want me as your kaishakunin?

Do I look like a Kurita loyalist to you?! >:C

lol

No but seriously, the implications of this WARRANTED buff are quite... profound.

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it. lol

Edited by ReXspec, 24 January 2014 - 05:25 PM.

[and zero]

Well thats great and all. A year late but still. How about you actually balance the rest of the game too??

Fix flamers, pulse lasers, srms, lbx10 etc etc. ghost heat blah blah ********.

Edited by and zero, 24 January 2014 - 07:41 PM.

[wanderer]

Almond Brown, on 24 January 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

It is all about the angles baby. Soon the tears will flow when the Lights (spiders) with Narc start racing through crowds of them Assault slugs, NARC'ing 4 or 5 of them and then the Steel Rain follows shortly after.

Well, not Spiders, since they lack missile hardpoints entirely.

The Commando actually has the best NARC option here with a fully mobile arm mounted launcher. Pod em and watch the foomfest begin. Not that others can't pull it off, but the rest of the lights have to point straight at their target to stick one on.

[StillRadioactive]

General Taskeen, on 22 January 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

Even previous MechWarrior titles got this right in 3 separate iterations, why can't MWO? You simply could not fire your LRMs at stuff you couldn't see, even if it was on your radar or your friends radar saw a target. You A. had to see it yourself, or 2, make sure your mech pals were using TAG/NARC - it gave a clear reason to use them. NARC was always the 50/50, "Well, if their team or some Mech has ECM, my NARC is useless for Indirect Fire, so I might need to bring a TAG as well or someone else in the Lance better be using TAG just in case of ECM." Then if all else failed and nobody could fire their missiles over things, hey, at least you could still use them if the enemy arrived in your line of sights.

In tabletop, LRMs could be indirect fired if your team had line of sight, but their accuracy was severely penalized (you took a penalty for the range, the motion of the target and the motion of the attacker - just like a direct fire shot - but also a penalty for firing indirectly and another penalty for motion of the spotter).

TAG required the use of special, more expensive LRM munitions, and it allowed the attacker to ignore the target motion, indirect fire and spotter motion penalties. It also required that the spotting mech not use ANY other weapons for the full turn. If you want to complain about MWO not "doing it right," then go ahead and suggest that all other weapons be disabled while TAG is active.

As for NARC, it increased the number of SRMs and LRMs that hit the target in a given shot. That's it. Nothing more. That's not playable in MWO at 3 tons plus ammo, so it's going to require that something else be done... otherwise it's a worthless weapon that people will only regret buying.

[Mystere]

ReXspec, on 24 January 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

Do I look like a Kurita loyalist to you?! >:C

lol

No but seriously, the implications of this WARRANTED buff are quite... profound.

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it. lol

The devil will be in the details. But, if NARCing an ECM carrier does cancel the ECM bubble, then that is a really big thing.

Of course we are going to need to more details, especially in situations where there are overlapping ECM bubbles.

[Mystere]

wanderer, on 24 January 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Well, not Spiders, since they lack missile hardpoints entirely.

Hero Spider with missile hardpoint, here we come!

[Wintersdark]

Mystere, on 25 January 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

The devil will be in the details. But, if NARCing an ECM carrier does cancel the ECM bubble, then that is a really big thing.

Of course we are going to need to more details, especially in situations where there are overlapping ECM bubbles.

I think it's safe to say - until we hear something else, or see things work differently in practice - that it'll work exactly as Paul says is does, using the EMP mechanic the PPC's have. Thus, hit the ECM carrier with a beacon, ECM bubbles goes bubye. Multiple overlapping bubbles? Just shuts down the marked mech's bubble.

Hit a non-ECM mech in an ECM bubble? Bubble stays up; mech may or may not be able to be targetted (I'd say not, with what we know right now).

[DocBach]

I think it'd be more useful if individuals, even if they aren't the narc carrier would be targetable through ECM.

[Curccu]

MustrumRidcully, on 22 January 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

QUick, let's start many threads on NArc so this thread will be buried and forgotten and it will be a pleasant surprise to everyone!

You did pretty good, took me two days to find this!

[Hunter 1988]

when i look at mw4, you have 6(or 4 dont know yet) shots per ton and weight without ammo 3 tons for a single slot.

too much ammo per ton and a too light launcher, maybe make it to a must have.
and everybody is running with narc beacon like tag lasers, boring.

lets make them useful! a decent upgrade makes a new interesting niche (hope its the right word) for teams.
like specialists for LRM´s boats.

[Phoenix423]

W00t! Christmas all over again...thanks, Paul!

[Void Angel]

Bront, on 22 January 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

Wait, so NARC will now counter ECM on a mech for 30 seconds? Nice!

Not sure it's enough (NARC really needs to stack with Artemis), but it at least is better than it used to be.

Either that or it burns through ECM coverage on the 'mech it hits.

[Butane9000]

Well those are improvements.

[GeneralGrievous]

This is the best news ever!!! The NARC has always been my greatest complaint. What a great fix!!! Thanks for reading the forums and taking appropriate action.

[MustrumRidcully]

Curccu, on 25 January 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

You did pretty good, took me two days to find this!

Some spoilsport stickied it.