Horray!
[Edit]
I also apologise for the length my dear audience.
I do encourage you to read through it though, it does have some amusing content!
[/Edit]
RichAC, on 19 February 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:
huh? lol your the one amusing guy.
Well what can I say, I know how to play to an audience and I think I'm figuring out just how to push your buttons.
Dance my troll puppet! Dance!
'RichAC': "
I requoted what you said word for word, why even bring up the fact blizzard makes their own mouse? The fact still remains, that many people don't have access to such hardware, and blizzard didn't add the macro in the game to sell their special mouse."
Fine, fine, fine. I'll go back and haul out the entire conversation thread just to show the world how you lie, deceive, redirect and straw-man just so you can seem like you're correct.
I think it went a little something like this:
RichAC, on 04 February 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:
Your only a cheater when you undermine what the devs intended with the game. Coolant Flush is available to everyone.
By that same delusional token, you can call someone a cheat for using anything or any type of loadout in the game...lmao Am I a cheater for using an AC20? There is a serious disconnect when people don't even know what cheating is in MWO, and that worries me.
There is no question if you are using 3rd party software or hardware for options not part of the game or described in the game manual or tutorials or official forum threads, your a cheater.
Macros are part of some games, but not MWO. Its cheating because it is not part of the game available to everyone. I bet you and Joseph would be ok with it, if it was only available to people who paid real money for it haha.
Here, where you lambast everyone for "when people don't even know what cheating is in MWO. Oooo, this is such fun!
IceSerpent, on 04 February 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:
You really should be more worried about your lack of understanding what the word "cheat" means.
...
Really? Even if developers of said game are perfectly fine with that? Seems to contradict your earlier statement that it ain't a cheat if it's official.
RichAC, on 04 February 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:
Totally wrong. Its up to the devs, they made the game not you bud.
...
your the one who lacks the understanding.
...
show me the link.... The only official post I ever saw myself, was on these forums, from a dev not a mod,
Just a side note here, I love how you take the moral high ground here by not accepting hearsay from a forum as valid (but only when it contradicts your worldview) and demand a link (but will never provide one when pressed to defend your own position). One rule for you and another for everyone else huh?
IceSerpent, on 04 February 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:
Dude, are you all right? What does sync dropping has to do with use of 3rd party software/hardware? And what link are you asking for - an example of a game devs allowing use of 3rd party parsers, macros, etc?
...
In other words, you've never read the official code of conduct, yet you engage in a debate regarding what's cheating and what's not...well played sir, well played.
It really is interesting to note how often your arrogance betrays your ignorance.
RichAC, on 04 February 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:
Oh i just clicked on the spoiler "Players CAN use keybinding macros and gaming hardware which require user input to trigger during a match and do not otherwise fully automate gameplay."
Its like PGI is keeping this hidden. I think they should add a macro option and program to the game itself for everyone to use like rpgs do, just like keybindings.........but I guess macros are legal.
Now here is where you are forced to acknowledge that you were wrong but you still don't accept responsibility for it. You blame PGI for keeping it hidden and then morph your argument from one of cheating to fairness. I've also left out a lot of the insults and barbs you slung at these people who were defending the position that macros were legal. At this point you were wrong, you slung as much mud as you could at these people, insulted and attempted shamed them into silence and when shown to be wrong you deflect the blame to PGI. Yeah, you're a real sportsman!
Now this is the point of the conversation you begin to fixate on hardware!
Quote
'IceSerpent': "
Which is why I said "gamers" instead of "people" - gaming mice / keyboards are extremely common in the gaming community these days."
'RichAC': "
Not as common as you think. And not described in any tutorial or game manual."
'IceSerpent': "
You might want to look up what AHK is before you continue with that argument. It got absolutely nothing to do with in-game options of any kind in any game. ... Why would you expect hardware capabilities of a keyboard or mouse to be described in a game manual? Those are described in manuals and tutorials for the device in question."
I like this, this was a good point of equality of opportunity. Free availability to all who wanted it.
'RichAC': "
Which is exactly my point. Try to follow along. It is an actual in game option in may mmo's. But apparenlty on the code of conduct, there is a hidden spoiler, when clicked shows a statement by PGI condoning the use of macros. SO i can't call it cheating in MWO, just unfortunate that people without that hardware will be disadvantaged. Which PGI can remedy by including a macro option ingame. But then again macros only really work for like jager and ctf mechs spamming ac's. So its not a huge problem ... Of course they would be, if it applies to the game. These are two contradictory statements by you."
'Joseph Mallan': "
I have a gaming mouse (Naga Razor), which has a number pad on the thumb side, so I can use either the keypad or the mouse to fire my weapon groups. I got a gaming Keyboard... so I have lighted keys cause I don't wanna have to have a light on to game late at night."
Yeah, gaming gear is really uncommon amongst gamers ... wait!
'IceSerpent': "
You're still missing it - AHK is a free software that everybody can use if they want to. Hardware macros, like ones in my Razer Naga only give you a theoretical advantage of being undetectable (it's in-build functionality of the mouse itself), which is irrelevant in MWO as there's no reason to hide macros due to them being officially condoned by PGI. ... They never are, at least I've never seen a game documentation go into details about advanced capabilities of mice, keyboards, joysticks, etc. At best you will find something regarding how to enable the device, but not information on how to program specific buttons - that's covered in the documentation for the device itself."
'RichAC': "
Your still missing the fact not everybody knows about this. If there was an in-game option, and a tutorial for it, like in some mmo's, that would be more fair. ... Because most people don't have mice with advanced capabilites. They do tell you how to keybind for the buttons though."
'IceSerpent': "
Probably. On the other hand, if PGI didn't introduce game mechanics that benefit from macros (i.e. ghost heat and gauss rifle charging), it would be even better. ... Even if anybody and their dog had macro-capable mouse, the details wouldn't be in any game because of sheer number of such devices on the market. It's simply impractical to include a tutorial on seting up macros for every single input device available."
'RichAC': "
haha in any video game a player can benefit from scripts. ... I totally disagree. take a poll in your unit.... Your also ignoring the fact alot of mmos, do exactly that.."
yeah, no. A lot of MMO's don't provide tutorials on how to set up macro-capable devices.
'IceSerpent': "
Not in any game. As a matter of fact, macros gave absolutely no benefit in MWO prior to introduction of ghost heat and gauss charge - what else would you use macros for in this game? ... Name one. Post a link to any game that provides instructions on how to use hardware macros for a specific (make and model - wise) gaming device, instead of just instructions on how to create in-game macros if such are available."
'RichAC': "
Why do you use macros in any game? because your too spastic and uncoordinated to hit more then one button hahah. ... are you serious? How bout game i currently play called RIFT. They have a game option for macros in wow...., why are you even trolling me dude.. ... http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macro The reason they add these options into the game itself. Is because like you said, they advertise "gaming" hardware with it. So it would be politically incorrect in their industry to not condone it. And they couldn't stop people if they tried. So to make it fair to everyone, and to educate everyone how to do it, its an actual option inside the game. Because contrary to what you believe, very few people would be using them otherwise with an unfair advantage."
Totally missing the point? Throw an insult instead! Can't come up with a good argument? Decieve, deflect and conflate!
'IceSerpent': "
When you figure out why normal people (i.e. not "too spastic and uncoordinated to hit more then one button") use macros, it might dawn on you why macros are only useful in MWO to get around ghost heat and gauss charge and were completely useless prior to introduction of those "features". ... Let me remind you of what I asked, I'll even make the font bigger for you: 'Post a link to any game that provides instructions on how to use hardware macros for a specific (make and model - wise) gaming device, instead of just instructions on how to create in-game macros if such are available.' Now, does any of that stuff you've typed has anything to do with any specific gaming device? No, it doesn't. Why did you even bother typing it then?"
'RichAC': "
yes it does, because it provides the options for people who don't own the specific device. Because of those specific devices is one reason many developers include the ingame option in the first place. Which you were trying to deny even exists in games...lol The truth is, unlike you delusionally believe, only a minority of players own these specific devices, and smaller few still know how to use them properly, so it is unfair. period. So some developers provide their own software for creating macros."
Actually, no it doesn't. RichAC raises a counter point but it still fails to answer the original question.
Now that the preamble is out the way to set the context, I enter. The specific part about advertising hardware is what I address.
Nightfire, on 09 February 2014 - 02:18 AM, said:
'RichAC': "
http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macro The reason they add these options into the game itself. Is because like you said, they advertise "gaming" hardware with it. So it would be politically incorrect in their industry to not condone it. And they couldn't stop people if they tried. So to make it fair to everyone, and to educate everyone how to do it, its an actual option inside the game. Because contrary to what you believe, very few people would be using them otherwise with an unfair advantage."
'Nightfire': "
Conflation again of built in and supplied, language interpreter with macro support with macro support with PGI's failure to support external 3rd party products supplied and supported by said 3rd party. The supplied page (I looked myself) doesn't make any mention of hardware though it should be mentioned that through SteelSeries, Blizzard does make, distribute and support their own hardware. (WoW Mouse)
Again, the concept of supply and ownership is either lost or completely ignored by RichAC."
An argument of how you conflate two functionally dissimilar game engines, how you lied about the advertisement of gaming hardware on said page but how I conceded that some companies do actually support specific hardware but that in those cases, it is because they make the hardware. Note: A concession to your argument with an example but with a caveat.
A position you have since morphed into:
'RichAC': "
I was explaining how other games, like rift, add a macro option right in the game menu, to make things more fair for the majority of people who don't own macro devices.... whic iceserpent didn't know existed. You don't have to own any special hardware to use them."
Yeah, no. You were demanding that PGI either "
includ[e] a macro option ingame" or, as IceSerpent put it ".
.. include a tutorial on seting up macros for every single input device available". To be fair, IceSerpent was arguing that this approach is impractical (and it is) but I've quoted him thus because your initial argument was:
'RichAC': "
Not as common as you think. And not described in any tutorial or game manual."
'IceSerpent': "
It got absolutely nothing to do with in-game options of any kind in any game. ... Why would you expect hardware capabilities of a keyboard or mouse to be described in a game manual?"
'RichAC': "
Which is exactly my point. Try to follow along."
Then there was:
'RichAC': "
What I thought most sad about your previous reply, is that you thought the macro options in games like WoW and Rift still have to do with hardware. They don't bud. Noone needs a special mouse or kb to use macros in mmo's that have them as a game option. That's the point."
Now you're hung up on hardware. It's that reading comprehension thing again, isn't it? I mention the WoW mouse as a concession to your point that one company does indeed support a specific make/model of mice (because they make them) but you focus on the hardware word. Sad really.
'RichAC': "
I guess I misunderstood the above quote, but you keep talking about hardware. The point is you don't need special hardware to use macros in those games.... I don't know why your getting so bent out of shape by me saying it makes the games more fair for people...."
Ah, the sarcasm quote. If this was genuinely sarcasm, it is also irony in that you really did misunderstand what I was talking about! I don't believe you though, it is more consistent with your behaviour that you are being deceitful about your motives in an attempt to improve how you are perceived. Ah, more talk about hardware. You really do find it hard not to be right don't you?
'Nightfire': "
Ah yes, yes you did. This point came from you complaining about the unfairness that not everyone can have macro executing hardware and as such PGI should create a Language Interpreter for the express purpose of making macros available in game. ... [more quoting]"
This is where I point out that you are the one focusing on hardware and won't let it go.
'RichAC': "
everyone else? lol language interpreter? you sound like a computer nerd, which explains alot. I bring up the fact other games have this an option, and your the one talking about other things bud....."
Can't win an argument? Just shame, "other" and sling mud! That will silence them! Oh, wait ...
Yeah, you bring up that some other games have macro options and I point out that those specific game engines are designed around macros. This comment is pure evasion but it is in response to my pointing out that this obsession with Hardware is your hang-up. You'll gnaw on this bone again soon enough.
'RichAC': "
The argument was also that many people don't know about them, or know how to use them.... not only that they don't own the hardware. Some that do don't know how to use them properly. And many don't even know what a macro is unless reading this thread. You can't blame people for not googling for the hidden knowedge."
And here it is, back to hardware. People don't know about a great many things in life but they can learn. Macros aren't required to play MWO and they aren't directly supported by PGI, PGI are under no obligation to tell anyone about them. If people want to play competitively, they will find out about macros soon enough on their own. I own several pieces of competitive gaming hardware for several devices, the games I play on the PS3 don't come with instruction manuals for how to use these pieces of hardware (or that they even exist) despite them giving me a distinct advantage. It isn't the game manufactures responsibility to do so and it isn't PGI's responsibility to educate players on every external advantage players can get. You seem to want other people to own your problems.
'RichAC': "
I quoted you talking about how blizzard has the macro opion in their game to try and sell their own brand of mouse, which is ridiculous for obvious reasons. These MMO's do it to make the game more fair. This is the reason your trolling me, because you are against such things."
My concession to how at least one company does actually support a particular brand/model and how to use it has turned into "
how blizzard has the macro opion in their game to try and sell their own brand of mouse"
Yeah it is ridiculous but you know what, I never said it! You made it all up! This is an example of you Straw-manning and lying!
The MMO's however do it because it is how their game engine works, it is easy to extend that function to players and players will enjoy that feature. Many players also never touch the macro functions in WoW so ... not sure that actually means anything in the context of this discussion.
'RichAC': "
I requoted what you said word for word, why even bring up the fact blizzard makes their own mouse? The fact still remains, that many people don't have access to such hardware, and blizzard didn't add the macro in the game to sell their special mouse."
Yeah, no you really don't argue in good faith. I've never said Blizzard included macros to sell their mouse, you straw-manned me into saying that and now you are trying to woozle it into truth.
You seem familiar with this:
'Joseph Goebbels': "
follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous."
The main point of this exercise is to demonstrate how you deceive, fabricate, straw-man and shame. There it is, in all its quoted glory. Go on, refute it!
'RichAC': "
They did it because its easy to do? Their game engine runs on such commands already? Where did you pull that out of hahah. You do know people edit Cvars in a cfg in MWO too right?"
See, your arrogance betrays your ignorance once more. Cvars in a config file are similar to macros only in that you can also store macros in a file. Apart from that you, once again, have no idea of what you speak.
'Nightfire': "
Now, please point out ANY quote where I am against macros? Any quote at all! Just one!"
'RichAC': "
Why are you replying to me then? Just to make attacks against my character for what reason then? Because you agree with me? lmao..."
Oh I have told you this time and time again. Go back and look it up.
I also don't have to make attacks on your character, you do that just fine all by yourself. I just dredge them back up and use them as a mirror for you.
And no, I only partially agree with you but we both know, with your splitting and all, that one can't partially agree with you. We're all either with you or against you.
'RichAC': "
So you are against macros because they are hard to program for the game? This is what all the ranting and raving is about?"
It would be more correct to say that I support PGI's position to direct resources elsewhere. Macros are a feature that, for those that wish to use them, are already sufficiently catered for by 3rd party products.
This is also not ranting and raving. This is sport (as in the old English definition of the word).
It's obvious now, you have no understanding of what you speak.
'RichAC': "
What stance? lol I made a suggestion I never even read discussed, and your going on and on like a complete lunatic....I'm sure the "audience" is loving this.... I know I do. 
"
Yeah, reading comprehension. Reading is hard. Unless you are PGI then you have once again misunderstood.
'Nightfire': "
I have never refuted this point yet you keep coming back to hide behind it. What you seem to fail to grasp is the complexity of such an endeavour between the type of games you mention and Cryengine."
'RichAC': "
Strange how you wait till many posts later to bring this all up. SO macros are easier to put in MMO game engines, but not for other game engines for some reason.....interesting. No offense, but not sure I believe ya. But, w/e this is way offtopic of the OP, and I'm sure PGI has better things to work on. MY whole point was, its an unfair advantage, which is something you admit...."
Strange how I wait until now? Do even read my posts? Do you really want me to go through all of my old posts where I explained this multiple times. I even made a Ferrari/Truck analogy so you could follow along with your Tonka toys. If you really want I'll do the same thing as with the hardware issue and show how you are being dishonest once more.
As for not believing me, go ahead. I'm just a "
computer nerd" with considerable experience in this area where as you seem to be having difficulty discerning between a variable and an algorithm. Don't take my word for it though, go find someone who knows about this stuff and ask them if some game engines as better suited (as in they do it better and more easily) to some tasks than others. Go for it!
I'll admit macros in some circumstances (AC2's, Gauss) can be an advantage but not an unfair one. The ability to use macros is available for anyone to use if they choose to avail themselves of it. I believe in equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.
'RichAC': "
Oh so thats what blew your gasket? Well Iceserpent linked me the code of conduct page where PGI condones macros. Still, as you yourself admit, its "advantageous", and what you don't realize, is only a minority have that advantage. Whats PGI"s stance on Sync Dropping, which I think is ruining the game and way worse then macros? haha."
Yeah, no. Not even close to the issues I have with you at all. Dig a little deeper and further back in your insulting, mud slinging past.
You had an opportunity to ameliorate the issue, I don't think that's possible now.
Any player can have that advantage if they so choose to pursue it. The majority may not know about macro software or other devices but it is one of those things that when you're ready to start using those things, you will start asking the questions that will lead you to the information. It's that whole equality of opportunity again.
Sync dropping is something that shouldn't NEED to exist in my opinion. People should be able to group up with whoever they like. I know many players (at least 40) that quit playing because they could play with their friends better in other games. You claim dropping in large groups is not about being able to play with your friends? Those people thought it was but the Effort was too great for them for the Reward so they just played in games that supported their desire.
You think Sync dropping is ruining the game? I say limiting group drops already has ruined the game.
'Nightfire': "
and yet, they do it. Perhaps they can learn far more from that data than you realise. Then again, perhaps data forecasting and predictive models are something "computer nerds" only really need to know about."
'RichAC': "
They do no such thing, first of all, private matches don't exist yet. haha, secondly the only quote I read about them saying they would ban for stat padding, was in a tourney back in may or june."
Are you deliberately this dense or do you work at it? because your lack of comprehension is staggeringly impressive!
Private matches don't have to exist for PGI to collect stats and analyse them with data mining tools. Nice attempt to deflect but yeah, I can actually read.
'Nightfire': "
Again, it's all about you. The fact that they already have this data and automated tools to mine it for greater meaning is unnecessary because you don't think there should be any rewards for private matches."
'RichAC': "
LOL, Even if they had all the tools to monitor everyones private matches for stat padders, its something thats very hard to prove...let alone justify. Even when they said they would ban stat padders from the tourney back in June, I doubt that actually ever happened..."
Ok, you're not in a court of law. PGI can, at any time, for any reason, simply ban you. Gone. Goodbye. No explanation or correspondence will be entered into and you have no recourse other than to perhaps make a new account. PGI need to prove nothing. If their statistical analysis shows to them in a convincing enough fashion that someone is cheating, they can just ban them! Simple.
Now as to whether they do, I actually doubt it. Unless you do something that will impact on other people spending money with PGI I doubt they will do anything. Even if you do, as long as there is no legal liability on the part of PGI (ie: harassment laws) and you spend more money than the person who's experience you are impacting, it is my belief that PGI will just ignore it.
'RichAC': "
This is the problem man, good sportsmanship, has nothing to do with technical knowledge. I think its unsportlike to encourage private matches get rewards the same as everyone else. I think most of the "audience", which you delusionally keep referring to, would agree for obvious reasons..."
Stop using the term "
sportsmanship". You don't know what it means and you are the antihesis of a sportsman. You display none of those values and conduct yourself in a manner that violates those very tenants.
While sportsmanship and technical knowledge are not at all related (and also not mutually exclusive), your issues seem to stem from a self-confessed lack of understanding of the technical issues involved and run back to point at things you like elsewhere and say "But ... But ..." as you point.
Why is it unsportsmanlike that private matches get rewards such as C-Bills? You make the assertion but you never back it up with an explanation even though I have challenged you to do so. People in private matches invest the same time as they would in public matches, play by the same rules. As far as I can reason they are unlikely to significantly exploit the system since to do so, they would require 12 players on each team and would already be exploiting 12 man drops.
'RichAC': "
I disagree, in the 90s they actually still made sports games for the PC haha. You could still buy madden and tiger woods games. I also had many friends, families neighbors, all who played pc games and were far from "computer nerds". talking about programming languages in a discussion about fair play....your nuts dude. Now kids grow up on ipads that they can't even game on , simply because they are less frustrating to use, which I blame all the viruses for."
Oh! You remember that but you cannot remember what you did to garner this attention from me? Curious, nice jab though. For once not an outright insult. Let's go through this:
- So you have a problem with nostalgia huh? I remember in the 90's I loved Robotech! They just don't make stories like that anymore! I went back to watch it again and relive those memories and ... well it's really quite crap. Actually, it's really terrible! 'Billy Joel': "The good old days weren't always good and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems". You can't go home again, that's just life.
- Yeah and I had weekend long LAN parties in the 90's. Those friends have drifted away and high bandwidth Internet has removed the need to take my computer places to play with friends in games. Again, you can't go home again.
- Talking about computer languages in a discussion about MACROS. You don't get to re-frame the discussion to try and seem right and jump topic. Pro Tip: Writing macros is PROGRAMMING! Macros use a Programming Language! Again, your arrogance betrays your ignorance.
- Tablets are popular because they are convenient and portable. You can game on them, just not the games YOU want to play! Basically, they don't do what you want them to do and you aren't a "computer nerd" so you don't know enough about your computer to configure and maintain it properly. It is after all a Computational Device and has an entire field built around it called Computer Science, derived from the field of Mathematics! Pick up a book and learn more computers rather than just complaining other people don't make them easier for you to use.
- Viruses are an unfortunate development through the recent years but you know what, so were car thieves! Do you own a car or do you think someone is going to steal it?
'Nightfire': "
No, no you don't. Things get easier once you know what they are called but general searching can help get you there. You can even ask Google questions these days! There really isn't an excuse for not wanting to look other than feeling entitled to having other people provide you the answer."
'RichAC': "
"Once you know what they are called". Not only that, once you know what they are for. Key points. Thanks to this thread some might have learned what a macro is, or about the free autohotkey software."
Once again, "Once you know what they are called ... THINGS GET EASIER". People figure out what macros are for pretty quickly if they didn't have an idea already.
While I won't deny that this thread may well educate some people on macros and some specific options out there, I believe it is arrogance to state that no player will be able to start asking and searching on their own and come to a solution. I have friends (yeah, I have real ones) ask me often "I want to do X, what should I search for?". I give them a couple of terms and they go off and do their own research. If they asked me for specific help I would give it to them. The point is, once people are at a point when the concept of a macro enters their head and how it would be useful, they will be able to find the answer.
I think this statement says more about your projection than anything else.
'RichAC': "
Changing your tone now are you? What you were implying, is that macros were advantageous in MWO because of PGI. Which is ridiculous. and what I was saying, is that Macros are advantageous in ANY game. No matter how minor. Plenty of people are using them for certain mechs in this game."
Actually no, I'm remaining consistent in my position.
Macros in MWO were not advantageous before the Gauss and Ghost heat changes. They may have been convenient but there was no significant advantage. The best they did was manage the timings of the 4 AC/5 or the 6 AC/2 mechs for a small increase in DPS. Nothing fantastic though and it really just replaced some button mashing and groupings.
After the introduction of Ghost Heat and the Gauss mechanic there came about a distinct advantage to using macros. DPS, getting weapons to fire at the same time, heat management. The introduction of Ghost heat raised the reward aspect in certain builds that the effort became more worthwhile for players of those mech builds.
'RichAC': "
Now your saying, they are too minor to use in this game? lol Your one crazy dude, well I'll bite, tell that to the people that use them for cataphracts and jagers."
Yeah, no. I never said macros are too minor to use in this game. That was you!
RichAC, on 04 February 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:
Which is exactly my point. Try to follow along. It is an actual in game option in may mmo's. But apparenlty on the code of conduct, there is a hidden spoiler, when clicked shows a statement by PGI condoning the use of macros. SO i can't call it cheating in MWO, just unfortunate that people without that hardware will be disadvantaged. Which PGI can remedy by including a macro option ingame. But then again macros only really work for like jager and ctf mechs spamming ac's. So its not a huge problem.
'RichAC': "
If the audience wants they can scroll back and read themselves, how one of your first replies about macros as an in game option, was to bring up blizzard special mouse they want to sell...which still has nothing to do with anything bud..."
I think I have sufficiently buried that claim at the start. But remember, lie big! Stick to the lie no matter what! Tell the lie over and over!
'Adolf {Godwin's Law}: "
But the most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success."
'RichAC': "
So this is a competition to you? Are you sure you aren't referring to yourself? Your calm? haha Go back and find real quotes? Like how brought up blizzards gaming mouse, which has nothing to do in game macro options? I think this is you admitting you don't even care about the topics we are discussing. You are just here to troll me. Very well, carry on..."
- A competition? No, more sport!
- Oh! DARVO! I was wondering when this would finally come out! Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender!
- Go back and find real quotes? Blizzards gaming mouse? Oh you really dug yourself in deep didn't you?
- I do have some opinion and investment in the topics we are discussing but your last point is also somewhat true. I am here to tear your arguments into the ground and display every dishonest technique you use.
'Nightfire": "
Oh, the poor sportsman shaming tactic again. You make this assertion but you don't back it up. The closest you come to defending this position is something like "It should be obvious". That isn't a defense, that is shaming and deflection. So put up, explain WHY there shouldn't be any rewards."
'RichAC': "
Yes, saying private matches should get rewarded, just like those who are playing against random opponents, or with random teamates, is very poor sportsmanship. Put up and explain why? How many times do I have to explain it? You mean besides the fact they can pad stats and rig matches for easy rewards? Besides the fact they are avoiding the challenge of playing against a random team or with random teamates? The fact you need to ask this is sad... I think its obvious why to most of the "audience". and many of the other posts in this very thread agreeing with what I think is common sense...which of course you never read."
- Playing in random matches now is poor Sportsmanship? Sheesh, I figured it was just random. You know, since you could just as easily put yourself up against much tougher opponents.
- How many times do you have to explain it? Just once would suffuce. So far you have hid behind, "it's poor sportsmanship", "it's obvious", "if you can't understand this" and other deflections.
- Pad stats? Like what? KDR which means absolutely nothing? Elo which should be completely absent and unaffected in private matches? Easy rewards? Seriously how badly do you really think people will abuse it if they aren't already abusing 12 mans?
- Ah! here we go! "Besides the fact they are avoiding the challenge of playing against a random team or with random teammates?" They would not be playing the game with the people YOU want them to play with so they should get nothing? This is reminiscent of people yelling at light mechs for capping bases in Assault! You should be ashamed of this one!
- You think it is sad that I challenge you do defend a position that is opposite to my own? You do understand how you reason with someone, don't you? Oh yes, you do. What you mean to say is that I am an inferior person because I don't think the way you do. Shaming language, got it. I'll get right on feeling bad about myself ... soon ... I promise!
I've read every post you've written in this thread and find most of what you say to be vacuous and without foundation. "
Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist"
'RichAC': "
This is you trying really hard to justify why you said people will not play private matches if they can't get anything out of it? Which is you confirming, again, that syncdropping is not just about "playing with friends"? All your going to do is get this thread banned . You might think I'm a troll, but at least I'm sincere in my replies."
This was me demonstrating to you how you would like to change multiple factors and then pick the one caused the outcome that occurs based on what is beneficial to your ideology at the time. It's the classic "Heads I win, Tails you lose" scenario. If something occurs you already know what caused it because your belief system has already decided what the cause was before you even look into the incident. It is akin to saying "If people want to play with their friends they will go play Battlefield (or whatever other game), if they don't then it's because it's all about the rewards". By changing the incentive system you change the game significantly. Your idea is that you cannot want to play MWO
AND play with your friends because people cannot want to do both at the same time, if they wanted to play with their friends then they won't mind not playing for rewards. This is your "
All or nothing" mentality again. This is why you can never think that sync droppers could ever want to play with their friends because it has to be about, and can only ever be about the Pug-stomping rewards.
And you are anything but sincere. I've proven that!
'Nightfire': "
I bet they're keeping score!"
'RichAC': "
And the same can be done with private matches buddy."
Yeah but I wouldn't be missing a paid game of football to play down the park.
Opportunity cost is a real thing.
'RichAC': "
Well now, I guess you've answered your own question then...lol Thats rewarding in itself, there is "something they can get out of it" And why they would be played even without cbills or faction bonsues or w/e...."
You know, if there was a league offering prizes then you might be right. I wouldn't care if I was awarded C-Bills. But if I'm playing with my friends I would like to have the game incitivise our performance. If not and we're restricted to playing for C-bills
or playing with our friends, we'd choose to play a game that lets us play together and incentivises us. Oh! Wait ...
You think in Black and White terms, you
split. There should be some sort of reward. They are playing the game, the game rewards performance with C-Bills. Your point is if you always play private matches, you should never ever ever ever ever have a new mech or any new weapons (purchasable with C-Bills), that those things are reserved only for those who play the game the way you think it should be played. I think that is entitled and elitist thinking.
'Nightfire': "
And yet, you still haven't explained why and don't say anything evasive like "It should be obvious". Explain it!"
'RichAC': "
Scroll up in this post and actually read where i've already answered it for the umpteenth time!!!! And go watch the documentary!!!"
- because they can pad irrelevant stats that have no effect on anything?
- They can affect their Elo in games that don't affect their Elo?
- They an play rigged games against people who ... know ... who they're ... playing?
- They can get easy rewards for playing the game when they could get just as much playing random drops?
The only real argument you had was Private Matches shouldn't get any rewards because they aren't playing the game the way I think they should be playing it.
Put up a real defence.
Also, that documentary for the most part, is crap. Most of the facts are right, the conclusions and opinions are quite wrong.
'Nightfire': "
You treat this as a zero sum game. If players are in one game mode, then they aren't in the other. Well, it's not. Such game modes could well have people playing the game that would not otherwise play MWO. You're splitting again."
'RichAC': "
There you go answering your own question again buddy. This one of the many reasons why, Private matches will be popular for private tourneys, and people will still play the other game modes for cbills. But as far as splitting goes? We have 3 game modes already, and it has nothing to do with private matches or an ELO."
Actually, I was pointing out how your reasoning is flawed and broken. Private matches can draw additional players back to MWO, it doesn't have to be a huge loss from the random pool. Those that do drift over will likely drift between them. Even if they did draw players from the random drop pool, so what? You'll have to develop some social skills and find a dropship to drop with if you want to avail yourself of that option? Doesn't seem do bad to me but then, I don't have a problem making friends.
As for
splitting, I was referring to your psychological defence mechanism.
'RichAC': "
In 12 man mode now they aren't picking their opponents? Obvious reason for those with any sports sense friend."
Yeah, actually they are. The 12 man queue is so empty that if we get 2x12 teams together and drop, we will get each other. It rarely fails. It is still an unexploited game mode.
Obvious for those for any sports sense? It's SO cute when you try to shame me when you are SO wrong!
'Nightfire': "
You're going to have to explain this because as far as I can break this down, you are the selfish one demanding PGI invest in a potentially expensive and complex system because you want it and you don't want to use a 3rd party option."
'RichAC': "
I was stating a fact that its an advantage, which you already admitted. This argument about it being too hard or expensive to implement, is a debate you started having with yourself.... I think its selfish to play with a private community, and expect the same rewards and benefits as those playing with the public community which is not only more challenging, as 12 mans are, but also less manipulatable as pugs are. So after I answered this question half a dozen times in this post alone, are you still going to ask me to "put up and explain why" ? lol..."
- It's an advantage, I plead no contest. It is.
- It really isn't a debate I'm having with myself. It is a counter to your demand that PGI "just put it in" because ... fairness
- You think it is selfish to play with a private community? I think it is selfish and tyrannical of you to dictate to other players how they should be able to play.
- You have no grounds to say whether private matches are more or less challenging than the public queue. You are, in my opinion, projecting your own fears of exploitation and abandonment.
- 12 mans are exactly as private matches should be only private matches should be able to control more settings. The essence of a pre-selected 12 v 12 facing each other is the current reality of 12 mans. Your boogie man is already here.
- Um yes! You still haven't put up one valid argument as to why Private matches should not have rewards, especially in light of 12 mans right now essentially being exactly what you fear will be exploited.
You have nothing but your own fears to base your objections.
'RichAC': "
I do enjoy it bud. You are trying to hard its like a competition to you. I'm passionate and sincere about video gaming. Your passionate about me...lol"
- Good, because there is plenty more.
- You're not passionate about video gaming, you're passionate about forcing your world view on others. You have done nothing for gaming other than write words on a forum. You can make that claim once you have actually given to the community.
- You do have my attention and I am getting some good sport tearing your bad ideas and poor behaviour down.
'RichAC': "
Read posts from other users in this very thread friend. Most people agree its un sportlike to reward private matches the same as everyone else....As far as an official statement from PGI I have never seen one. I hope they are listening to the majority though, beccause you and ice serpent are a minority, again, even in this very thread....."
Most? Really? You actually claim that? I wouldn't since the reality is, it doesn't hold up! As for myself and IceSerpent being a minority, you have no way to know or any way to even begin to extrapolate that. It is an empty claim based on your own fears.
As for never seeing an official sattement from PGI:
RichAC, on 18 February 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:
You are definitely not a sportsman. And actually, according to other threads, supposedly PGI already agrees that private matches should not have rewards.... Its dishonest.
Remember that little piece of shaming language thrown about with the 'one upper' of PGI backing you? If you are going to use PGI as a source of authority, you need to back it up. If you can't, don't!
'RichAC': "
I'm the one who said PGI has not officially said that. Not you. Also refer to the previous paragraph."
Yeah, you should refer to the previous paragraph also. Damn! They should really remove people's ability to go back and dredge up what you've said in the past, huh?
'RichAC': "
Stat padding is very hard to prove."
Depends on what you mean by prove. To know that it is being done? No, not at all unless it is done very carefully. Court of law prove? Irrelevant and PGI doesn't have to.
'RichAC': "
ELO Shouldn't be used in self selected matches, exactly,"
Agreed but this had been agreed upon since ... well I don't think there has been any dispute over this.
'RichAC': "
neither should such matches be rewarded. Thinking otherwise is the fail."
You still haven't shown why. It is your postulation that people who play in Private Matches should never get new mechs, new weapons or new equipment unless they play the way YOU think the game should be played in the public queue. I think this position is elitist and arrogant.
'RichAC': "
Its the core game as it stands now....what ifs and what could be, are not reality yet."
That is true. However, as you have put forward several times, only PGI gets to decide on what happens. Your rage against people running off to private matches is simply raging against the abyss.
'RichAC': "
Medication dude."
Education "dude"!
See! I can do that too!
'RichAC': "
This is your funniest statement yet. Because you are definitely wasting your energy replying to me with all this offtopic nonsense. Like this is some sort of competition or vendetta. Or maybe you are really desperate for this thread to be locked."
You're a cheater are you? You see I'm not raging against you, getting all stressed and losing sleep over you. You are sport, amusement. You're a little troll marionette on strings that I'm pulling.
'RichAC': "
If we break all your rantings down, you basically agree with me that macros are unfair, even if not deemed cheating by PGI, but you disagree that "self selected matches" shouldn't get the same rewards as those that are not, because their ELO would be invalid and they are not participating with the community.... Can we stay on topic?"
Well, if you want to break my position down, let's do so:
- No I do not believe macros are unfair. I believe they can give you an advantage but anyone who wishes to use marcos has the same avenues to pursue them.
- Private matches should get rewards. Private matches, in my opinion, should be a viable way to play and progress in the game in its own right. A player, with sufficient friends or social ability, should be able to never play a public queued match if they so choose but still earn rewards to purchase whatever is available for purchase. The "public queue is everything" mentality is toxic.
- Elo has no place in private matches and would be completely unaffected by the win/loss of said matches. Private matches should invalidate nothing.
- People should be able to play as they wish. If they dislike the Matchmaker and prefer creating their own matches and playing their own way, other people like you should not be able to tell them they should be playing the game otherwise.
Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.
'RichAC': "
Hmm, this is where iceserpent stopped debating me. And when you stepped in. Because implying that private "self selected matches" should get the same rewards as others, "otherwhise why would people play", is the only quotes anyone needs from you friend. This is confirming, just like iceserpent has done, that its not "just about playing with friends""
- I stepped in long before IceSerpent stepped out. I think he was actually trying to reason with you. I know better, I'm just pulling more strings.
- I am not "implying" anything. I am outright stating! Private matches should be just as viable way to play the game as any other mode. People shouldn't be forced to play the public queue just so they can progress in the game.
- Finally, this only confirms your splitting. You pit two desires against each other (progress in the game and play with friends) and make them mutually exclusive when they aren't. You want to pit them against each other and then when progression is desired claim people never wanted to play with their friends. When people try to circumvent those arbitrary limitations, you don't see it as a second desire trying to be fulfilled along with the first, you only see the one desire for reward. It is the only thing you see. It seems to be the only motivation you understand. That is why you fail.
'RichAC':
"I'm deluded? Yet you think 30 players syncdropping at the same time, is proof people can't get enough players for 12 man?....haha. I'm a victim? What? Maybe you take too much medication, Ya i'm a victim of playing a game very few people want to play competitively I guess.."
- I've never seen 30 players sync dropping at the same time. Most I've ever seen is 8 since once we get a 3rd lance, we jump to 12 mans and see if we can find another team. I guess my friends really do just want to play together were as your friends ... are they friends?
- Yes, you really do play the victim card heavily.
- Perhaps you should get an education? Hey! That's fun!
- I know, poor you. Nobody gets you, we're all such poor sports and pick on you. No one treats this game with respect and wants to play it your way! We're all big meanies! (Does that start to make it obvious for you?)
'Nightfire': "
Again, you impune malice with no grounds and really have absolutely no clue."
'RichAC': "
Refer to previous statement."
That is grounds huh? Well try this.
All video game cheaters are gamers therefore all gamers are cheaters!
RichAC is a gamer therefore RichAC is a cheater!
See how that works? Because you have found some people that sync drop to exploit the system doesn't mean you can cast your aspersion on all who do the same.
The action is not evidence of motivation!
'RichAC': "
Its sad and why I feel the need to post. Because it definitely is due to poor sportsmanship. Believe it or not, most of society is into sports. Most people are competitive by nature. Look at you competing me for troll status, talk about wasted energy. IMO, To treat the game like anything other then what it already is, a sport, is failing...."
- It is sad, I'd suggest therapy but it might work and then who's strings would I pull?
- There has indeed been evidence of poor sportsmanship! You can start behaving respectably though!
- Your point here is what? I'm not competitive because I find watching sports boring? That I'd rather play sports?
- Oh my poor poor troll. I'm not competing with you at all, I'm having fun!
- Wasted energy? No, rather productive. I've amused myself at a cost of next to nothing.
- MWO is NOT a sport. A sport, by definition requires physical exertion. MWO being a game doesn't make it any lesser. We've been over this, because you have your own special definition doesn't mean we in the rest of the world have to adopt it. This point is also not why MWO is failing, you can look straight at PGI's poor treatment of the community and communication for that.
'RichAC': "
12 mans are just "no fun" is what most people on teamspeak have told me. I don't know what "audience" you think you are convincing dude. Its understandable, people don't like to lose, or not only lose, but get totally smashed all the time. This is why noone 12 mans. Its not only a symptom of a small playerbase, but also a catch 22, because the less people that play 12 mans for those reasons, the worse it becomes.... "
12 mans are no fun and you leave it there. Let me tell you WHY they are no fun.
- First you have to keep people together while you get 12 players. Normally you'd just form a group and play together but once you hit 5 players, that becomes difficult. It was far easier to coordinate if everyone was together in the one match. Now you have separate groups who do their own thing and then you'd get 12 people and find that one lance just can't be bothered anymore.
- Then there is the wait time. You think wait times for a match are bad now? Try getting a match once every 40 minutes. This is what leads to the point of getting 24 people together and sync dropping the 12 mans. We face each other, it rarely fails because there simply isn't anyone else in the queue.
- Once you've faced the same 12 people for about 4 or 5 matches, the loadouts change. The varied loadouts disappear as mechs are configured for specialised roles in that team or to target other specific mechs in the opposing team. After a while, everyone is equipped to take out someone else. This starts to get boring also.
- After about 10 matches, with no one else to fight we're done with facing the same 12 people over and over again so we quit and go back to public matches.
- Sometimes we don't get to the point of boredom. Someone will have to go for whatever reason and we can't find someone to replace them. That is then it. 23 other people are now done playing 12 mans and the queue is now empty. The required number of people to play makes these teams fragile.
- It has naught to do with loosing, getting smashed over and over or any other paranoid reason you can think up. It has nothing to do with a small player base. It has everything to do with the barrier to entry (having 12 players or nothing). But since you don't play 12 mans, I can see how you wouldn't know.
'RichAC': "
What you need is a core competitive community, that sucks up the losses until the community grows. But these are the type of a people a selfish community, with some fale sense of entitlement, end up driving away.... I don't blame PGI at all. We could be talking about throwing #### against the wall, it all boils down to the community."
Actually, the community was quite large. It didn't start dying because people were selfish, people were quite warm and welcoming even just over a year ago. What started the beginning of the decline was the 4 man group limit. Once it became obvious PGI wasn't going to keep the promise of giving us back even 8 man drops, people started leaving. It was the beginning of the poor treatment from PGI towards to player base. You weren't there so you have no idea what it was like and what happened since. You impugn based on your projections.
'RichAC': "
You thought the documentary was about hackers hahaha. What are you doing is showing your own true colors. You don't like the fact i keep posting on these forums about malicious hackers on the internet, or ways to make the game more competitive and fair? Too bad."
How do you possibly think that I thought the documentary was about hackers? Seriously?
- You straw-man me and then draw conclusions about my character based on that straw-man. You really have to wonder why you embody everything a sportsman isn't?
- You can go on about hackers all day and night, I don't care. I do think you project your fear of hackers on to everyone else.
- You don't want things competitive and fair, you want people to play the game your way. You're just going to have to get used to disappointment.
'RichAC': "
Are you going to tell me how free and unmonitored Russia's internet is, or how they are a model country for human rights? Am I for real? I think you are the one who needs a history lesson."
You want to talk about free Internet and you pick Russia? Really? Anyone who had half a clue would have picked China. Those with some real knowledge in the area could have shown off their creds by choosing something a little more obscure but far more regulated like Thailand. Yeah, Russia's Internet is pretty damn open and unmonitored and their government really don't care too much about what Black Hats do there as long as they hit targets outside Russia.
I'm not sure what human rights has to do with this but I'll bite. First off, you know the USSR is gone and Russia is not the USSR? The cold war has long been over. If you want human right violations you might want to cast your eyes to places like Africa where people are slaughtered every day. What is your fixation on Russia? They are a far cry from the USSR that they used to belong to.
'Nightfire': "
No, fear mongering is what large governing bodies do to enable further erosion of liberties. They are not "what ifs", the undersirables being marked people has happend time and again in history, the people with yellow stars on their chests are just probably the most notable. I suggest you brush up on World War 2."
'RichAC': "
Now your starting to seem a little young to me... or maybe an uneducated teabagger....hmm.. But Now your comparing the USA with {Godwin's Law}? Let me guess, Obama is {Godwin's Law} to you? haha... More fear mongering, and what if's that are so ludicrous, its not even worth a reply. Racism might be an issue here. For thinking obama is {Godwin's Law}, and also why the germans went along against the jews....."
- Young huh? By golly gosh, thank you. Been a while since I was called young.
- I would steer away from the education slurs, they really don't work in your favour.
- Actually I was really making comment on how big governments have a tendency to get bigger. To do so they have to control their populace more tightly and as they do, they erode freedoms and rights. The {Godwin's Law} party is a good one to use because most people recognise it even if most don't understand what really happened. They just say it was bad and they did bad things to the Jews but that's all they really know. Many don't realise the {Godwin's Law} party didn't "seize" power but rather were elected into office legitimately. It is a rather large subject but I will say this, are you sure you still have your rights?
- Right to due process?
- Right to an attorney?
- Right to face your accuser?
- Right to free speech even?
- Have a look at your own US College campuses to see how those rights are now disappearing in favour of the latest manufactured fear targeting the latest 'Jews'.
'Nightfire': "
Then you really have no idea what really happens in the digital infromation war. Every technically advanced nation is involved in information warfare."
'RichAC': "
Exactly my point about Russia."
Sorry but Russia isn't the information superpower. Could I point you in the direction of China?
'RichAC': "
So let me guess, facebook and twitter prove otherwise? And LoL proves pc gaming isn't dying either I guess...."
If you work in an ER you will think the world is full of the accident prone.
If you hangout where idiots gather, you will think the world is full of idiots.
- Facebook, Twitter and especially Tumblr are vile toxic social communities of the vapid. Because toxic communities exist doesn't mean good ones don't.
- You keep occasionally saying PC gaming is dying and yet, I don't see it. What I see is it is booming! I have multiple local 64 player BF4 servers that are packed full every night I get home.
'Nightfire': "
And when I was a kid I walked to school, bare foot, in the snow, up hill, both ways! Times change, it is the inevitability of life. All I can really say about the Internet now as compared to the 90's is, it is different. Some change was good, some was bad. You can't go home again, so learn to deal with it."
'RichAC': "
You have it backwards. A truer analogy would be, when you were a kid you took a car to school, and nowadays you have to walk uphill in the snow. Ipads and androids, are what kids call computers nowadays. And they are very limiting friend. Not even talking about chatrooms, which if they are exist nowadays, are too vile to use. But alot of forums, that use to be filled with stay at home Moms, who were there to help people. I mean like the hackers that kept winmx online when the gov't could never shut them down. We are talking family oriented hackers..whitehats just don't exist anymore."
- You totally missed the point of how we perceive the past. I'm not surprised though.
- Today's Ipads and Android tables are far more powerful than my first PC. They are incredibly powerful but they are purpose made devices, they fill that purpose perfectly. Android devices are far from limiting (They run Linux for gods sake, you can do whatever you want with them!) but they do have interfaces designed for ease of access and for touch interaction. I have several, best ebook reader and bed time movie watching platforms I've ever had! What you have here is your inability to cope with a new paradigm and have others not being in yours.
- I use IRC every day. Not sure what your problem with chat-rooms is. Everyone I meet on IRC is incredibly polite.
- Forums filled with stay at home moms? Like momcafenetwork.com? Yeah, they're a nice bunch .... but you get good and bad people. Sounds like you just don't know how to find a place that suits you anymore.
- Pirate Bay "dude"! IP law is a sticky and tricky thing. Get involved, don't just talk about how bad it is.
- Whitehats exist. Whitehats in fact make a lot of money! Trust me on that one.
Let me see if I got this right? You want the Internet to be a governed communication channel under the purview of some authoritative body?
'RichAC': "
Just like I don't treat video games any different then athletic sports. I don't treat the internet highway any different then the street outside my house. Sorry. The cop watching me cross the street or watching where I'm going or who I'm talking to, is not violating my constitutional right, and I don't call him a spy."
Then you don't get it, at all! Setting aside the video games to sports argument which you keep flogging, let's look at a few realities.
- There is no Internet. There is only may many different networks owned by many many different people that agree to pass data on. These networks are private property and they are all over the world. So who do you suppose get's to govern them? The US? When the US Government tried that little trick on the IANA, the IANA just threatened to pack up shop and move to another country. The Internet is all private property and the US Government can't just appropriate it all. Especially the networks outside of the USA.
- The cop across the street is more akin to a cop in your house, searching it without a warrant and this cop is also from Russia (Like that? I pay attention!). International borders, jurisdictions and laws make this all the more tricky. Every country has laws that are insane and they are even more so to those from other countries. Your morality is not better than mine and you don't get to push yours on to me.
- Your constitutional rights (those you think you still have) are only yours in the USA. Contrary to belief, the USA doesn't own the Internet. Actually, if the USA vanished into the Abyss, the Internet would still keep working.
- Large organisations, once they have complete control of information, are free to start feeding you only what they want you to know. 'George Orwell': "Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past." These propaganda techniques are incredibly old and well understood. That you don't see that one power having control over what people can know is incredibly frightening.
'Nightfire': "
That is just so 1984 as to be frightening."
'RichAC': "
Its only 1984, to people with no understanding or turning a blind eye to what really goes on online. You would rather live in a world without laws, or gov'ts or police to enforce them? Thats a scarier thought to me. Where things are so barbaric people get beheaded in the street by warlords and gang leaders? I will be fighting you, so families can feel safe online."
- 1984 was a book (Have a movie link, not so much reading comprehension). Actually it is a book of some renown in intellectual circles as a warning. You should read it.
- Of course I would prefer a world with laws, I'm not an anarchist but I'm also not a socialist. You point to Russia (USSR) has being an abhorrent regime but they are an example of the big government you are advocating. That is where Marxism ends up.
- You will frighten me so families can feel safe online? 'Adolf {Godwin's Law}': "The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation." We know about people like you already.
'RichAC': "
Only you are doing this, not me.. You not giving me a taste of my own medicine, if this is your intention, you are only showing your true colors..."
Um, I'll get right on being ashamed of myself. Honest!
'RichAC': "
Take a Poll? Count the number of people who are against private matches being ranked and rewarded, to those who approve of your suggestion in this very thread. So far I count 4-2 against it. Go ahead make the poll.....I think it would be good thing to do. (Sorry about the spacing in this post, no matter how many times I edit it, the spacing is screwy)"
For me, all I have to do is see that I'm getting likes on my posts. That and this is also good sport.
Edited by Nightfire, 20 February 2014 - 11:07 PM.
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