633 replies to this topic

[Stepping Razor]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 February 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

1) Thats a mistake on your part sir. I understand there is a skill gap. there is a skill gap as well among pro athletes, Most rookies are not Micheal Jordan, but the rookie still had to play against his team and him right?

2) I want to face those top tier players just as much as I want to play against the boots. The widest range of challenges the better the game in my eyes.

How competitive can you be if you don't want to play against everyone and anyone?

the issue Joseph Mallan, is these "rookie's" have already been drafted, and go through a processe of elimination over 10 years, going from high school-college, learning the game (if u sucked at basket ball, in high school and college would u attempt to join the NBA, NO). so yes rookies in the NBA get played against Michael Jordan that is what they have been training for for the past 8 years of their life, so they understand how to play the game, and are prepared. In this game you decide to pick it up one day because you saw a basketball laying there on the ground at an empty court and BLAM! Michael Jordan shows up, and its not like hes gonna go easy on you with some sort of sportsmanship this is the internet so you will juts get rick rolled with out really learning how to play the game because you wont even get to touch the ball.

[Joseph Mallan]

Stepping Razor, on 23 February 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

the issue Joseph Mallan, is these "rookie's" have already been drafted, and go through a processe of elimination over 10 years, going from high school-college, learning the game (if u sucked at basket ball, in high school and college would u attempt to join the NBA, NO). so yes rookies in the NBA get played against Michael Jordan that is what they have been training for for the past 8 years of their life, so they understand how to play the game, and are prepared. In this game you decide to pick it up one day because you saw a basketball laying there on the ground at an empty court and BLAM! Michael Jordan shows up, and its not like hes gonna go easy on you with some sort of sportsmanship this is the internet so you will juts get rick rolled with out really learning how to play the game because you wont even get to touch the ball.

A good point. My own experience in Competetive sports was, I would get bracketed against Lil Bobby. Lil Bobby is a 4 time state champion, Me I'm a noob just learned how to put on my equipment correctly, 3 weeks prior. Guess what happened to me when I ened up across from Lil Bobby?

They are prepared to play the Game, but they are NOT prepared to play against a Seasoned Mike. All those years of Previous training and when he gets spun round and round, what will he hear? "Nice job Rookie!"

Martial Art Tournaments, Heck my Martial Art Classes. I have a green belt in 4 systems (Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do, Shorin Ryu, and Wing Chun Do), Years of sparring,and a couple bar room brawls... How do you think a new Green Belt Stacked up against me?

I surprised the crap out of a 3rd degree Black Belt, who assumed Me being a Yellow Belt meant I had next to no training. It was a bit humbling for him, even if he did win the match by 1 point.

[RichAC]

Nick Makiaveli, on 22 February 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Hold up a second. You are making a BS argument and I am calling you on it.

What if I want to gain C-bills and XP and drop with my friends? Why should I have to choose? Because you don't have any friends and can't/won't join a unit?

Also, sync dropping isn't cheating, so that's a completely bogus argument. Cheating would be against the rules, and it's not.

Also, cheating isn't something that can happen by accident, as it did last night when we realized we had dropped on the same side as another DHB group. Also, given that it fails almost every single time and is really not worth the hassle, I hardly think its a big deal.

This smacks of the same pathetic whining as I got headshot, you must be using an aimbot!!!

You guys see 3-4 of the same House on a side and automatically assume they are a pre-made. A few weeks back we dropped with Bravo being all Davion and all Jager/FB. Turns out it was just the MM having a sense of humor. They weren't grouped and didn't know each other (yes we talked about it).

Thats a BS argument...because you can play with your friends on a 4 man or 12 man.

Just like you say its my fault for not joining a unit or getting friends. If you want to play with more then 4 and don't have 12 people, its your own fault.

Also, ending up on the same team by accident, is not sync dropping. Syncdropping is being intentional and cheating imo. I have seen it ruin other gamemodes like random 4 mans in Gw1.... When you sidestep the game mechanics, trying to undermine the match maker, in whats supposed to be a random team. Your being dishonest and unsportsmanlike.

Especially when doing it to try and avoid the challenge of 12 mans or random teams.

IMO, sync drops are one of the reasons the ELO gap had to be widened, ironically, when unfair teams are what droppers complain about in the first place. Syncdroppers make the match maker worse. Because if everybody is entering a match at the same time, there is less people entering at other times for other matchups, increasing the length of searches at those times. Not to mention how only playing with your friends invalidates your ELO, which is why private matches should not be rated when implemented.

Edited by RichAC, 23 February 2014 - 11:39 AM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

RichAC, on 23 February 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Thats a BS argument...because you can play with your friends on a 4 man or 12 man.

Just like you say its my fault for not joining a unit or getting friends. If you don't have 12 people, its your own fault.

4's and 12s are not going to be allowed against PUGs in the new MM.

Also, read what I said, not what you want to see. I said BOTH.

Lot's of info in NGNG's #103 podcast, most of it depressing to those of us on the island. The great unwashed masses are getting their way.

[Joseph Mallan]

RichAC, on 23 February 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Thats a BS argument...because you can play with your friends on a 4 man or 12 man.

Also, ending up on the same team by accident, is not sync dropping. Syncdropping is cheating imo. I have seen it ruin other gamemodes like random 4 mans in Gw1.... When you sidestep the game mechanics, trying to undermine the match maker, in whats supposed to be a random team. Your being dishonest.

IMO, sync enters are one of the reasons the ELO gap had to be widened, ironically, what many sync droppers complain about in the first place.

Especially when guys do it because they want to try and avoid the challenge of 12 mans or random teams, to try and avoid a loss.

Just like you say its my fault for not joining a unit or getting friends. If you don't have 12 people, its your own fault.

Sorry but this is also a BS argument, cause if you have friends on line and in game you CAN go to TS# servers and group up with them.

Take Goose And DaZur, Goose is a friend of mine from the HeavyMetalPro forums (12 years now), DaZur I met here. We have teamed up a few times, PUG Made. We do pretty good together but not the same "Better" as a 4 man Lawman drop. I have 6-8 months of 7ish hours with the same guys.

It has been said multiple times by the DEVs... Premades>Loyalist PUGs>Lone Wolf PUGs will be the chain of command for MM.

Nick Makiaveli, on 23 February 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Lot's of info in NGNG's #103 podcast, most of it depressing to those of us on the island. The great unwashed masses are getting their way.

So why join a House Unit with Loyalty Points IF PUG is how the game is meant to be played???

Also as of Yesterday I am pretty sure Elo is working... Maybe not as intended, but it is Working!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 23 February 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[RichAC]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 February 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Sorry but this is also a BS argument, cause if you have friends on line and in game you CAN go to TS# servers and group up with them.

So then what are you complaining about?

Quote

It has been said multiple times by the DEVs... Premades>Loyalist PUGs>Lone Wolf PUGs will be the chain of command for MM.

So why join a House Unit with Loyalty Points IF PUG is how the game is meant to be played???

Form a 12 man? ....

[RichAC]

Nick Makiaveli, on 23 February 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

4's and 12s are not going to be allowed against PUGs in the new MM.

Also, read what I said, not what you want to see. I said BOTH.

Lot's of info in NGNG's #103 podcast, most of it depressing to those of us on the island. The great unwashed masses are getting their way.

4's and 12's against pugs?

first of all, as of now, only 4's are allowed against pugs. Which many feel is unfair. But its better then what many want, which is to be able to have any team size up to 11 verse a pug....... which is totally unsportlike.

12 vs 12, is not a pug. So i dont' know what you mean. Are you sure your not confused about something?

What are you saying here, you are not going to be able to form a 12 man team when CW comes out?

I quit my unit because all they did was syncdrop, and nobody was competitive enough to 12 man...and the few matches I did get to 12 man, there were literally only 2-3 teams in rotation, and it was mostly failed searches...I don't know what makes you think 12 man teams in CW will be any different.

I must be misunderstanding you here. There is no way your actually advocating...for any size premades against random teams right? lmao....

Edited by RichAC, 23 February 2014 - 11:58 AM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

RichAC, on 23 February 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

4's and 12's against pugs?

first of all, as of now, only 4's are allowed against pugs. Which many feel is unfair. But its better then what many want, which is to be able to have any team size up to 11 verse a pug....... which is totally unsportlike.

12 vs 12, is not a pug. So i dont' know what you mean. Are you sure your not confused about something?

What are you saying here, you are not going to be able to form a 12 man team when CW comes out?

I quit my unit because all they did was syncdrop, and nobody was competitive enough to 12 man...and the few matches I did get to 12 man, there were literally only 2-3 teams in rotation, and it was mostly failed searches...I don't know what makes you think 12 man teams in CW will be any different.

I must be misunderstanding you here. There is no way your actually advocating...for any size premades against random teams right? lmao....

Yea shouldn't have said 4's and 12's. Misspoke there. 4's will no longer be in PUG groups, and what he said could be interpreted to mean 12's wouldn't count in CW either, though I think it's going to be that 4-12 man groups will be in one queue, and solo and 2-3 man groups will be in another.

I don't see the problem with 4 mans against PUGs, especially since the MM factors that in and places another group on the other side if possible. Also, with only 16% of players dropping in groups (and only 4% in 4 mans) I don't think it's a big deal.

*edit* FTR, 8% were 2 man groups, and 1% were 12 mans.

Edited by Nick Makiaveli, 23 February 2014 - 12:30 PM.

[RichAC]

Nick Makiaveli, on 23 February 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Yea shouldn't have said 4's and 12's. Misspoke there. 4's will no longer be in PUG groups, and what he said could be interpreted to mean 12's wouldn't count in CW either, though I think it's going to be that 4-12 man groups will be in one queue, and solo and 2-3 man groups will be in another.

I don't see the problem with 4 mans against PUGs, especially since the MM factors that in and places another group on the other side if possible. Also, with only 16% of players dropping in groups (and only 4% in 4 mans) I don't think it's a big deal.

*edit* FTR, 8% were 2 man groups, and 1% were 12 mans.

well....it does make it easier to be in a 4 man rather then solo though, doesn't it? So in the spirit of fair play, i like their decision.

I think because not only do you get the benefit of better coordination with friends, you can also lower your ELO that way, since its a group avg. I know i have gotten some obscene scores and easy matches, by simply grouping with low lvl players.


I don't think that means you will no longer be able to form a 4 or 12 man though. I hope not anyways. I guess they figure, they are going to give people private matches, so playing with friends is not an issue. And if you want to play for cbills and rewards, it will have to on a more even playing field.

Edited by RichAC, 23 February 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

RichAC, on 23 February 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

well....it does make it easier to be in a 4 man rather then solo though, doesn't it? So in the spirit of fair play, i like their decision.

I think because not only do you get the benefit of better coordination with friends, you can also lower your ELO that way, since its a group avg. I know i have gotten some obscene scores and easy matches, by simply grouping with low lvl players.


I don't think that means you will no longer be able to form a 4 or 12 man though. I hope not anyways. I guess they figure, they are going to give people private matches, so playing with friends is not an issue. And if you want to play for cbills and rewards, it will have to on a more even playing field.

Lances and companies are the basic roots of this game. New recruits being assaulted by elite units etc. That's what i hoped for, not a reskin of Team Fortress.

And for those who think I am saying this since I want to keep my uber stats or some such...
Wins / Losses 870 / 951 Kill / Death Ratio 0.41

[RichAC]

Nick Makiaveli, on 23 February 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Lances and companies are the basic roots of this game. New recruits being assaulted by elite units etc. That's what i hoped for, not a reskin of Team Fortress.

And for those who think I am saying this since I want to keep my uber stats or some such...
Wins / Losses 870 / 951 Kill / Death Ratio 0.41

well go ahead and set that up in a private match then. Go haze and bully some new recruits. OR go play with your friends or other units and have a casual match.

But I think PGI made this game to make money, and most people would like to see it more popular. People already complain about the new player experience, and many players get turned off. There is definitely a learning curve which is frustrating enough regardless of teams and I'm definitely not against making the game more fair.

My stats have been tanking this past week...lol

Edited by RichAC, 23 February 2014 - 04:50 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

RichAC, on 23 February 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

So then what are you complaining about?

I was pointing out that if you have 2-4 friends you can use comms just like everyone on TS. Its no a complaint but a statement of fact.

Also as a 4man it took me 3 1/2 hours to win 4 matches(Won my first match PUG) cause Elo was compensating for someone on our team, While PUGging the Centurion took 7 drops to win 5 matches. Being in a 4 man is NOT always an Advantage!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 24 February 2014 - 05:19 AM.

[RussianWolf]

My god, this thread is still alive??????

I have 74 mechs right now (all the Heros, Sarah's and a crap load of others) and $48mill cbills in the bank. I haven't bought any cbill mechs for a while as I was grinding XP on my existing mechs to master them. Only 7 left to finish and they aren't far off, so I' will be buy some more soon. I drop solo or with a very loose group at times (no voice comms, no real coordination other than "yeah, let's go in that direction"). There are times I lose more with the group than I do solo. But we are far from competitive. I would be one that would be a lone wolf in a group queue, I like the challenge and am not afraid of dying or worried about meaningless stats. I come to play and enjoy myself.

[RichAC]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 February 2014 - 05:13 AM, said:

I was pointing out that if you have 2-4 friends you can use comms just like everyone on TS. Its no a complaint but a statement of fact.

Also as a 4man it took me 3 1/2 hours to win 4 matches(Won my first match PUG) cause Elo was compensating for someone on our team, While PUGging the Centurion took 7 drops to win 5 matches. Being in a 4 man is NOT always an Advantage!

I guess its different for everyone. For me it is...lol Most people have an easier time in a group, imo.

[MischiefSC]

I admit I'm curious -

Is the idea that if you feed the troll enough it will be too bloated to get out of the cave? Fight them here so you don't have to fight them at home?

[Joseph Mallan]

RichAC, on 25 February 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

I guess its different for everyone. For me it is...lol Most people have an easier time in a group, imo.

Depends on the group. If the 4 players are similar in skill or YOU are the ringer, yeah an easier time can be had. If that's not the case, then group play can get... frustrating. ROFLStomps don't mean you have a large pre made, but COULD be you have a (or a few) high Elo gamers on your side.

I scored more damage in losses Saturday than I did in victories on Sunday. To me that feels like Elo working perfectly Even if it stinks!

Chief, Trolls are a necessary evil, and much like Dirty jokes and Sarcasm, They are to studied and graded.

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 February 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

Depends on the group. If the 4 players are similar in skill or YOU are the ringer, yeah an easier time can be had. If that's not the case, then group play can get... frustrating. ROFLStomps don't mean you have a large pre made, but COULD be you have a (or a few) high Elo gamers on your side.

I scored more damage in losses Saturday than I did in victories on Sunday. To me that feels like Elo working perfectly Even if it stinks!

Chief, Trolls are a necessary evil, and much like Dirty jokes and Sarcasm, They are to studied and graded.

Couldn't agree more.

If you've got a 4 man group of ex-military adults who all understand communication protocols, the teamwork is normally awesome....as long as everyone's not chattering all the time and there is a designated leader.

On the other hand...when I group with my buddy and my 12 year old....well, at least we're able to hear each other laugh when we died a horrible death.

As for the Elo working perfectly....it certainly is, considering the HUGE 1400 point spread it's got to put groups together. Since I'm pretty sure I'm a "mid-range" player (read that as: shafted by the matchmaker without even the decency of a reach around), I end up with just about every level of player in my group.

My buddy is out of town on a job, so he asked me to get his 5 wins for him so he could get his freebie Centurian. It took me close to 45 matches to pull it off...but it was in the morning on a Monday, so that might have a lot to do with it.

When I ground out my 5 matches to get that Champion Centurian (which I parted out and sold for the free mech bay), it took me about 15 matches, give or take.....but I've got a wider variety of mechs to choose from and did it on the weekend when the servers were full.

When it comes to the matchmaker, you bend over and take what it gives you...whether you like it or not.

Edited by Willard Phule, 25 February 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Well none of this arguing really matters in the end. My friend Nick here was vociferous about maintaining his advantage at the sake of others suffering. and was warned that he needed to be careful what he asked for because he just might get it,
He did in full measure and not to his benefit. Sorry about that but try taking it graciously for once.

Still here we are with lesson not learned. Some in his camp were wise enough to see the writing on the wall and I would like to thank then for using critical thought and a small portion of empathy for others.

Nick, No such luck as he is adamant of riding the backs of others for his pleasure.

Myself I think killing groups is not the answer but I also see how it may change attitudes in time. Hopefully PGI can find a balance and bring everyone in . Nuff said. Done with this thread.

[Joseph Mallan]

We are a group of Present and Former Military personnel. And it still fluxes with who is teamed with you!

Also... I thought it was spelled different!

[Luighseach]

From the way I know how the ELO rating works, the system is broken. The only way an ELO type system could work in this game is bases solely on a team rating and not individuals. Since teams are usually only together for 1 match it is pointless to use this type of rating system.

The only system I think could begin to match players would be to take into consideration of the Mech build(how much they have put into the mech), Average damage per match, Average score per match, Average kill Ratio per match, Accuracy rating, and the biggest rating would be an "effective rating" or how much the person effects the match through spotting kills, protectiong etc. All of these would have to be weighted and tested to give the overall match making system.