70 replies to this topic

[Voivode]

Mediums are probably the most challenging weight class to run with. Stick with it and you will learn pilot skills that will make you an excellent addition to any team.

I would recommend changing the loadout a little. 6 ML is a bit weak for the 4P. If you check MechSpecs.com you could probably find a build that hits harder.

[JC Daxion]

Try the HBK 4SP, use streaks and ML with extra heat sinks..

the 4G, is also great, with the AC-20



I myself, really dislike the 4P and can't find any load out i like about it.. Wish i bought the 4J instead.


another thing to note, you are more likely playing a role in these mechs.. in some matches i hunt a couple of lights, get a little damage, and a kill or 2.. I did my job. Others i protected an assault mech, or capped, or what ever.. damage is not everything when it comes to mediums or lights.. or honestly any mech really. though it can tell the people that have bad aim.. when everyone has 500 damage. (unless they did that on purpose)

But i have scene matches that a few people are barely over 300 and everyone else 100-200, and it is 12-0..

Edited by JC Daxion, 23 January 2014 - 02:00 PM.

[Macksheen]

I got one of these as well - the Hunch (new guy here too) - what I did was group the 6 in the shoulder into one group (mouse 2) and the others on mouse 1 in group 1 - and to manage heat, when I start I generally keep group 1 on chain fire, cycling - then 2 for the big burst ... and run like crazy.

Not my favorite mech (running Cents similar to above - those I find fun and fit well with my brain)

Edited by Macksheen, 23 January 2014 - 02:10 PM.

[Lucky Noob]

Take an look on that little Killer.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f9047cb38f4b1ef

Weapon group 1 left Arm 2 right Arm 3 Torso.

18 Doubles cool it down like crazy so dont worry about Heat,

116 km/h helps you escape any Trouble and engage any Enemy at his nice weak back ( remember 1 Alpha and 1 Time Group 1 +2 is enough to kill any Mech from behind. )

If you meet an Light dont be afraid to alpha him, 40 Pts. mostly scary any Light instead away.

Just make sure you dont start Fights, wait till Battle is on Heat, then charge in and kill whatever you meet, if you meet more Enemys, just use your Speed and get out.

Edited by Braddack, 23 January 2014 - 02:39 PM.

[Doctor Proctor]

One thing about Hunchbacks, the 4P in particular, is that they're generally best when used for hit and fade tactics. My 4P with 8ML (STD275 engine, 6xML in the Hunch, 1xML in the LA and 1xML in the head, 18xDHS including the 11 internals sinks, Endo) will creep in slowly and usually wait to see a bigger mech that is distracted or perhaps holding still steadying it's shots. I'll then pop up and unload with the 6xML in the RT (a 30pt alpha), which will usually hit pretty hard since the person typically wasn't expecting the shot.

After that I'll start turning away form the mech and moving away while using the 2xML and my torso twist to track the target as I'm turning away and fire a parting shot at him. I can then whip back around for another 6xML salvo if he's not pursuing me aggressively (by that, I mean when they turn you and can tell that they're about to focus you before they even start moving in your direction) or peel off entirely for a few seconds to let the heat settle down.

It's basically a little flow chart:

Is the large mech angry at you yet?
.....Yes - Run away
.....No - Are you overheating?
..........Yes - Run away
..........No - Continue firing and return to the top

Koniving's suggestion of the SPL build is solid, but a little bit more advanced I would say, since it depends on being able to stick very close to your enemy and avoid getting your head blown off. The 8xML Hunchback can keep a bit more distance due to the 270m range and therefore make more use of cover.

Another build you could try is one that I'm running with great success on my 4J. It uses a STD250 engine, 16xDHS including the 10x internal sinks, 2xLL (one in each arm) with 2xML in the RT and 1xML in the head. Basically I've got the 2xLL's on one trigger group, and the 3xML's on the other. This build gives you some more range for a bit of a reduction in firepower and speed. I haven't tried it in he 4P though, so it might not work as well due to the large hunch (since my 4J was purchased after the hitbox changes, I pulled all the missiles out to make it a hunchless Hunchback, which is proving to be quite durable and good at keeping all of it's weapons).

Edited by Doctor Proctor, 23 January 2014 - 02:38 PM.

[mikelovskij]

Humm, the hunchback 4p with std 275 and 9ML at the moment is my preferred mech and the one I have best results with, It runs quite hot but with the speed tweak is fast enough to hide and reengage when coled down. Just don't duel until late game and try to hit vulnerable places, if someone start focusing you be sure you can run behind a cover or to your allies. Play smart and you will be able to deal tons of damage and kills with it.
When people talk about game balance and that mech being underpowered or overpowered, keep in mind that often this is mostly true for experienced and organized teams, where people are much better at exploiting the weaknesses and the strenghts of the various mechs than in casual pugs. Also a lot depends on the playstyle, baybe you are just more suited for some other playstyle.

edit: also until you have all elite skills (so that you get the double basics skills) I preferred to use 8ML and one more heatsink to run a bit cooler.

Edited by mikelovskij, 23 January 2014 - 03:33 PM.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

This was my HBK-4P back in the day (or something similar - it's been a while). I used to call it 'dropping the bass'. Fire the hunch, then the arms, cackle your way to victory.

However, Mediums are the hardest class to do well with, I think. Because they are so jack-of-all-trades, in this game of poptarting PPC-laden Assaults and Heavies, they don't focus enough on one particular area to dominate in certain situations.

That said, if you stick with Mediums (as I did, purely out of my lore-love for the CN9...) and learn to do well, there isn't a 'mech in the game that you can't best. I've wrecked Atlases in a BJ-1DC, Victors in my HBK-4SP, Highlanders in my CN9-AL. Then I got my hands on the Phoenix Mediums, and started wrecking other Mediums. Fast Griffins and Wolverines make pretty nasty Light hunters, and the CN9-D? Don't even get me started.

At the end of the day, if your playstyle or preference moves away from the Medium class, who is anyone else to judge? But if you even suspect you might suit the class, don't discount it just yet.

[White Bear 84]

Mediums will have more of a place when tonnage comes into play, then you wont be seeing 8 assault mechs running around stomping everything in sight...

Tonnage will ultimately affect how much DPS can be bought to the battlefield, I am hazarding at a guess if you compare the DPS to tonnage ratio it should be skewed towards the lighter mechs..

[Mott]

CW and eventual weight restrictions is precisely why I'm eager to master a few medium chassis right now, and concerned by how imbalanced they seem.

I think they'll be an essential part of the makeup of all drops once CW arrives. I want to be prepared... but I also want to have fun. So hopefully I can find a medium that provides me an opportunity for both.

[Koniving]

Doctor Proctor, on 23 January 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

Koniving's suggestion of the SPL build is solid, but a little bit more advanced I would say, since it depends on being able to stick very close to your enemy and avoid getting your head blown off.

Very true. Stealth is often a useful tactic, or flanking. This is what happens when the stealth is blown. And that's only 6 SPLs, back when they did 3 damage instead of 3.4, and more heat per shot while being shot at by 4 or 5 different mechs and, of all things, teasing the enemy and futzing around. "Rawr! I hit you! Now I just kill you and you die and that makes me happy. Thank you; come again."
----------
But for other things, all including the PPC 4P video are without any of the current medium mech enhancements that made them much more competitive. 7 SPL 2 ML Hunchback 4P survives the impossible.

Split screen side by side of 2 Hunchbacks (4P, 4SP).

In a time of 6 LL Stalkers.

After 4 assaults on my team (including me) are nearly instantly decimated by 6 ECM Atlases, an Awesome and a Raven 3-L (at the time "invincible"), a Dragon, Catapult, Hunchback and Jenner take on and kill all 7 assaults and the Raven in a free for all circle-brawl in the open in this 8 versus 8 competitive match. (If time skip doesn't work, just watch from beginning it seems very fickle about skipping ahead).

My favorite Hunchback 4P build; 3 PPCs + small or small pulse lasers with XL engine.

Ninja Hunchback 4G (takes a while, but the goal is to sneak up on and ambush a 6 PPC stalker and his Highlander escort and devastate them with the typical 3 ML, AC/20 + 2 MG rig).

And my overall favorite Hunchback of all in classic Lordred chase cam and far too over-posted by me, the 7 kill, 711 damage Hunchback 4G using LB-10x, 2 MGs, and 3 SPLs who got into every single enemy's face and hammered them to death with an XL engine and more than half of them from in front when first engaged. This video is the only one posted here with the medium mech enhancements, and you can hear my surprise and excitement when I discover the torso twist's extent.

And two closed beta videos showing what they used to be. The classic. And single armor, knockdowns enabled and single heatsinks only.

Because... Hunchback videos.

(Fixed last video from "Melee in mechwarrior online" which is a badly bloated clip with youtube editor and slow download times to the original video which is very quick to load and some time skipping to a brief half minute or so before getting punched in the face by an Atlas.)

Edited by Koniving, 23 January 2014 - 08:22 PM.

[Koniving]

Mott, on 23 January 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

CW and eventual weight restrictions is precisely why I'm eager to master a few medium chassis right now, and concerned by how imbalanced they seem.

For non-hunchback stuff... My most recent videos are mediums. Picard's Centurion which if you're interested you'll certainly find it. And of course, the best match I've been in since 2012 played in my Kintaro 20.

[Johnny Reb]

In the current state of this game I recommend only 3 types of mediums. First, fast (100+ faster better) to be light deterrents, defend the heavies or knife fight when needed. Second, dedicated heavy support, aka Hunchie 4G or Wang, i.e. heavy weps to complement the heavies (not really good unless tonnage restrictions are in place). Third, is an a maneuverable lrm support mech like a Kintaro-18 5 lrm5. In pugs 1 and 3 work great. Comp prolly only 1 has use. Heavy support is {Scrap} as why not just take a heavy instead. Tonnage limits need to exist for mediums to really shine.

[Auton]

Johnny Red I have say that having something with pinpoint damage is also good for Mediums. I just ran a drop with my 2 ER LL and 2 Med Lasers and had 15 component destructions. I legged a highlander, atlas, jenner, spider, 2xjager, commando. I only had 2 kills but my pinpoint ERLLs helped our team by making the enemy sitting ducks for the LRMs and focus fire (except for the atlas DC). Now I am not 100+ KPH only 95 but being able to run to a spot line up and cripple the enemy but still get away was great. In a Heavy this would not of worked.

You might say I could of done that but with a light, yes you can but the enemy got 2 mechs (jenner and jager) to our cap and was capping us. I was able to sit on the cap (which was at 80% cap) and duke it out with the 2 mechs till help arrived and killed them off. Not many lights would be able to stand up to that punishment. I feel mediums allow you to change your tactics if needed quickly and have enough armor that you can make a mistake or 2 and usually not be destroyed (except for those dual PPCs and AC20 combo to the CT). Another thing that Medium Mechs (especially the Centurion) teaches you is to twist that torso. Never allow the enemy to continue to hit one spot. That lesson will help you when you use Heavy Mechs in the future to use up all that armor as you torso twist the damage around your mech.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Auton, on 24 January 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

...my pinpoint ERLLs...

Lasers are not pinpoint. Autocannon and PPC's - those are pinpoint.

[Auton]

Arnold J Rimmer, on 24 January 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

Lasers are not pinpoint. Autocannon and PPC's - those are pinpoint.

I will give you that when they hit they hit one section but when I am 700 meters away I can hit with my ERLL on a spot and keep it there while dodging incoming PPC and AC rounds. I do have a hard time dodging gauss rounds though.

[Koniving]

Johnny Reb, on 23 January 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

Third, is an a maneuverable lrm support mech like a Kintaro-18 5 lrm5. In pugs 1 and 3 work great. Comp prolly only 1 has use. Heavy support is {Scrap} as why not just take a heavy instead. Tonnage limits need to exist for mediums to really shine.

Vid by Lordred. A lance of assault, heavy, medium, and light with the medium as a Kintaro LRM support mech with 5 LRM-5s. Voices by first thing said: "Bob (the drone)" is my voice (Kintaro). "Hi bob" is the Atlas. "I'm gonna move on to Kappa see if I can keep 'em off it" is the Jager. The commando doesn't record his own voice.

Mediums actually work better as assault support than as heavy support. Heavies can operate on their own. Assaults need all the help they can get.

[Doctor Proctor]

Koniving, on 24 January 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

Vid by Lordred. A lance of assault, heavy, medium, and light with the medium as a Kintaro LRM support mech with 5 LRM-5s. Voices by first thing said: "Bob (the drone)" is my voice (Kintaro). "Hi bob" is the Atlas. "I'm gonna move on to Kappa see if I can keep 'em off it" is the Jager. The commando doesn't record his own voice.

Mediums actually work better as assault support than as heavy support. Heavies can operate on their own. Assaults need all the help they can get.

I love my Trolltaro... It's a surprisingly effective LRM mech when equipped with a TAG, LL and XL300. Very fast, very agile, able to get it's own locks and cut ECM and plenty of ammo as long as you're not too wasteful. If you run into AMS, then just alpha all your launchers to turn the string of LRM5's into an LRM25 salvo. Very fun mech to drive...

Edit: Noticed that it looks like the video was using a Golden Boy, whereas my build uses a KTO-18. Same missile hardpoints, but with the KTO you could do something like go with 2xML or 2xMPL and maybe up the engine size. They're not too different though...

Edited by Doctor Proctor, 24 January 2014 - 08:20 AM.

[SaltBeef]

Expect to get yer arse shot off faster than in an assault. You are definately more manueverable, faster, a 2nd threat not a 1st threat like an assault.

[mack sabbath]

Once I mastered them, my Hunchbacks, the two I kept, consistently do 500-700 damage in 4 man drops and 200+ in solo queue.

It's more about situational awareness (watch that mini map!) and hanging close to the big guys Once an injury heals and I return to playing regularly again, I can't wait to pick up one of the new Phoenix jumping mediums and start the grind all over again.

My Hunchy runs well over 90 kph with a firepower some Cataphracts and Jagers enjoy. Torso twisting is important, and running a medium until you do it well will help you in piloting the heavier machines later on if you so choose.

Best wishes.

[Scurry]

I honestly kinda like playing mediums over other mechs. Why is that?

Well, first, they're flexible. With the right loadout, I can adapt to almost any situation I find myself in. Pretty important given that I pug almost exclusively nowadays. Been a few months since I last played on a team.

Also, they're a low target priority. Stick close to an assault or heavy, and let them take some of the fire while you duck behind the enemy and carve through their rear. Either that or help to target vulnerable spots.

They're also mobile with decent firepower. Yes, many heavies have near-equal maneuverability. However, using a medium, you can typically dodge just enough fire to get onto the other's rear - and unlike lights, you can at least take an alpha or two before things go south. Also, they have just enough speed to get you out of sticky situations - and that, combined with your low priority, makes things a bunch easier for you.

This point's a matter of personal opinion - as a medium, you're often the most expendable member of the team. Your team needs to keep the firepower of heavies and assaults - and they need lights for capping stuffs. That leaves the mediums. For example, if you see a hurting LRMboat that just managed to escape, but still have weapons functional - or they have a bunch of long-rangers laying for you - I am willing to do a kamikaze run in order to tip the scales just enough to let my team win. Either they focus on you - in which case your heavies and assaults can tear them up - or they ignore you, and you can tear them apart from behind a lot quicker than a light. There have been fair amounts of time when Stalker LRMboats had my team pinned down - followed by me charging in and occupying their attention at close range, followed by my team coming up while they're distracted and pounding the snot out of them.

If you're forced to fight one-on-one with someone you can't beat - don't panic. You're like the Capellan Confederation to the other Successor States - you won't win a straight-up fight with them, but you'll maul them severely enough so that they're easy pickings for anyone else. Create vulnerabilities, and then tell your team where they are!

If you read all of this, you might think, "Hey, a heavy does this better" or "I think this is more suited for a light". That's true. However, as a medium, you can at least fill in when nobody else can't - and that's why I love mediums. Wild card FTW!