70 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

SaltBeef, on 25 January 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

You are definately more manueverable, faster, a 2nd threat not a 1st threat like an assault.

Indeed. Actually more of a tertiary threat; not even a primary or secondary in the eyes of most. But this works to your advantage. Think about it. If you're not the enemy's main concern, how many of them are actually aiming at you instead of the chain of assault mechs coming their way?

The answer is no one. Engage enemies that are already busy fighting something bigger and that's really all you need.

When screwing around in a trial Raven 4x, I walked next to a 4 PPC Stalker. Another dangerous enemy stalker came up to us. I stood perfectly still and started shooting at the first part of the enemy that was hit. Completely ignored as I got the kill and my stalker ally who I never met before took all the damage. We repeated this, over and over, until he died. Then I chose another nearby assault mech on my team and walked beside him. Eventually he died. But I came out in a stock, trial Raven 4x wtih 2 MGs, 2 ML, and 1 SRM-6, and 5 kills, out of 8 enemies, with 300-ish damage dealt.

In every fight except the one where the stalker died, I stayed perfectly still and drew absolutely no attention to myself. There wasn't any need. The same can be true for medium mechs.

Here's a completely stock (read; "useless") Huncback 4G with multiple kills after losing its hunch. The secret? Looking unimportant.
And a completely stock Hunchback 4H that does 691 damage and gets many kills. Here, it was again being largely unimportant.

[Koniving]

(For the Raven, I came out with minor damage to a leg from a passing laser and when the stalker died I lost an arm to a 6 PPC shot. Back then it was super dangerous for lights and mediums; a time before ghost heat which hasn't done anything but scare most players out of it).

Now, this isn't to say just stand perfectly still. Quite the contrary. The reason I stood still was that movement draws attention. I just moved out of sight far off to one side or another but close enough to not get 'accidentally noticed', and then stood still. The cannon fodder I chose each time around were people smart enough to engage enemies in one on one battles or at least advantageous fights. I didn't pick suicide runners or frontlinesmen -- they die too quick for what I'd need. Slower mechs with a lot of firepower that screams "I'm the only threat."

For example, if they existed, would you engage a mech with 2 machine guns or a mech with 4 AC/20s first? The one with 4 AC/20s every time. 6 PPCs? Twin PPC + Gauss? 3 PPC + gauss? 4 PPC + gauss? 3 PPCs + AC/20? 7 LPL. 5 LL? These were always prime, main targets and when engaged nothing else matters because one wrong move and these builds will instantly kill you.

These were the mechs I chose to 'walk alongside' of, as they made me the least important thing in the world. If you can see or figure out that an assault is carrying a meta rig, everyone knows they're a threat and no one knows you are. Use that. Assaults are there to take the damage. Use them.

Training exercise for new players: Escort a stock assault mech.
First session. Victor is completely stock. Centurion and Hunchback escorts custom designed by me. Pilots have had less than a week of experience. Centurion and Hunch semi-tweaked by Centurion/Hunch pilot based on her preference to missiles, and his head laser swapped to a medium.
Second session. Victor is customized. Though deliberately gimped by "accidentally" not installing missile ammo for missile launchers. Pilots have played for a week and a half and begun fully customizing their own rigs to suit their niches.

Note that a stock Victor has terrible heat issues, and stock around 368 armor out of 494 maximum (as fragile as a fully armored medium + larger size).

Both have gone on to join Rasalhague in the hopes of quickly being absorbed by their favorite Clan Ghost Bear. They started with minimal to no knowledge of battletech, but got big into the lore.

Edited by Koniving, 25 January 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Koniving, on 25 January 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

post

"Nothing to see here, move along... AAAAH-HAHAHAHAHA INYO'FACE!"

[Charons Little Helper]

IraqiWalker, on 23 January 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

2-HBK-4P Party gurrl
This one is my favorite because it doesn't overheat as easily, and can deal crazy amounts of DPS. You need to stick close to your target and learn to throttle control so you stay in their shadow. You will also be able to fire your shots almost non-stop.

The main tactic for the HBK-4P is to hide behind a bigger mech, then pop up and just wreck things. It's better to tag team with a bigger mech and use them as a distraction.

You can also drop the laser in the head for both variants to get a bigger engine.

I run something similar - but I shaved down the arms & legs to get a bigger engine & an extra heatsink. I still almost never lose my arms or legs. Unlike other hunchies - you don't have any ammo to protect in your legs - so being cored there isn't a big deal. (They have tiny arms and stumpy legs with no jumpjets.) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c4313fb83b0a8ae

Never drop the laser in the head. It's amazing how much damage I've done in the past once zombied.

And they make great lighthunters. Not fast enough to chase them down perhaps (though 98kph is nothing to sniff at) but the focused 30.6 damage can shred lights. Especially spiders - since the lasers don't seem to have any hitreg issues.

[codynyc]

Dont listen to people that say mediums are sub par... Medium mechs are not easy mode.They take skill to pilot.You have to be aware of your surroundings and pick your targets. Alot of noobs don't like mediums because they want to run in and brawl... CANT DO THAT ..

I play lights and mediums , Consistently Get 500 plus damage 2 to 3 kills a match. You just need to protect your weapons and pick your shots. Infuriates me when i see people say mediums are sub par mechs..That statement normal comes form sub par player...

[Koniving]

Just found the perfect video.

This is for those wanting to start with an assault mech. Imagine the surprise when that story reaches the point of success, only to realize it won't work. That's getting an assault mech early on. After all that work, and adding even more to it, it's just beastly expensive to begin tweaking it to something that works for you and by then, about a third of those who make it that far tend to quit.

Go light, medium or heavy to begin with. Preferably medium to heavy.

[IraqiWalker]

No one should ever start on assaults in my opinion. That's too much of a burden to have on a starting player. Mediums are perfect, and of all the mediums I recommend always the Hunchie and the Shadowhawk.

[PaxMacharia]

I have started with heavy mechs kinda love them, but I can highly recommend medium mechs for new members since they are
pretty well balanced and if it comes to firepower and speed the shouldn't be underestimated.
Have to admid never tried a Shadowhawk but love all of the Hunchies
HBK-4SP is one of my favs
also this built is pretty cheap, does not need much time to get used to, it is fast and packs quiet a punch.

Edited by PaxMacharia, 26 January 2014 - 07:20 AM.

[Name140704]

Mott, on 23 January 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

Hey all

Still learning, every time i enter a skirmish. And one thing I continually learn is that my favourite mech class - mediums - currently seem to be quite outclassed by every other class in MWO.

Many users obtain a medium thinking it's going to be a great balance of a smaller profile than heavies, faster than any heavies/assaults, and better armored and armed than a light.

The reality seems quite different. I have just one medium so far... HBK-4P and have been quite underwhelmed with it's firepower (i have 6 mlas) and it's armor (i've only cheated a little on the legs and rear RT, everywhere else has great armor). It gets shredded every game and i rarely get more than 200 damage, even if i survive till the end. It moves pretty good at 80kph and i've squeezed as many dhs on it as i can. But it still overheats too easily (chain firing) and crumples under heavy fire.

I've noticed that the scaling seems a little off. HBKs "look" larger in-game than many heavies (dragon, jager & 'pult) and instantly draws a lot of fire on the field for this reason.

And many of these issues don't seem isolated to the HBK or me specifically. I really enjoy the Cataphracts. I absolutely tear through any HBK, Kintaro, Centurion, Cicada or Trebuchet i face with my 4x AC5s or paired 2x PPC + 2x AC5s. If they stand up to 10 or 12 volleys, I'm surprised. And usually by the end of that exchange i still have 85%+ of my phract's armor remaining.

This shouldn't be the case. Mediums should be hardier than that. Harder to hit than that. And capable of dealing a little more damage than that.

So, after all that, I guess my question is... can we expect better mediums? Either in the form of some tweaks to existing chassis, or, will we get some lethal new chassis in the not too distant future like the Bushwacker?

Add:

I just realized after posting that there are new mediums coming for C-bill purchase - Shadowhawk, Wolverine and Griffin, I believe?

If so... maybe one or more of them will address my concerns.

If weight limits ever get in this will change. I am hoping so. Mediums were no joke in MPBT 3025 because you had to EARN them! Combine that with maps that are class capped and you have an enjoyable game that EA killed

[Mott]

Still agonizing over this decision... keep my Hunchie and build a stable of 2 others to elite... or cut my losses and try a Shadowhawk or a Centurion... or even wait to see what other beauties are coming down the pike.



How do you guys determine when to take the leap and risk the CBills? In a whole month I've only had time to play 120 matches... at this rate, i'm not raking in the CBills and can't afford making a bad purchase; i'd never recover! lol

[Doctor Proctor]

Personally Mott, I would stick with the Hunchbacks for now for a few different reasons:

• They're a pretty solid chassis that's just as effective as either the Shadowhawk or the Centurion.
  
• A chassis really changes once you get it elited (which requires all 3 variants) and get your double basics.
  
• Hunchbacks have more variants to choose from that offer significantly different loadouts, such as the 4G, 4P and 4SP (Ballistics, laser boat and SRM brawler respectively) whereas the Shadowhawks, and to a lesser extent the Centurions, tend to have similar loadouts with minor tweaks between variants.
  
• Hunchbacks are a little cheaper to run and outfit since you'll never really need XL engines. You'll want to buy some STD250's and maybe a STD275 or two, but you could upgrade the engines on three Hunchback variants for what it would cost to put a large XL into a Shadowhawk.

Now, I'm sure which variant of Hunchback you have, but I'm sure you could find some decent builds over on mechspecs or in the forums here. Just put together a solid build on your Hunchbacks, kit them out properly and then get them elited. By that point you'll be much better at the game and will probably be making CBills a little more reliably. Then you can jump into the next chassis since now you'll have a stable of elited workhorse mechs to fall back on for CBill grinding. Make sense?

Oh, and as a side note, here's an example of my HBK-4G stats. The all time ones probably don't make it seem like this is a great mech, but remember that this was one of my first mechs in the game and didn't have any good modules, elited skills or really just good experience with playing the game. Compare it to my last 90 days though and see you can see the dramatic improvement into a wrecking machine that routinely takes out 1/4 of the enemy team using a pretty standard STD250 with AC/20 and 3xML loadout. It's just a nice, solid mech once you get comfortable in it.

All Time:

• KDR: 1.26
  
• Avg Damage: 263
  
• W/L Ratio: 1.11

Last 90 Days:

• KDR: 3.36
  
• Avg Damage: 445
  
• W/L Ratio: 1.71

[Mott]

Decided to giv-er-a-go with the Hunchies. Grabbed a 4SP last night and ended up having a blast. Had absolutely 0-Cbills left to mod it, but had a spare STD245 kicking around and plenty of weapons... so i was able to rip around with 3xML and 2xSRM6 and averaged 200-250 damage each match.

And new for me... I REGULARLY lived till to see the end of the match!

Thanks for the feedback, it definitely helped me out.

[mogs01gt]

codynyc, on 25 January 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

Dont listen to people that say mediums are sub par... Medium mechs are not easy mode.They take skill to pilot.You have to be aware of your surroundings and pick your targets. Alot of noobs don't like mediums because they want to run in and brawl... CANT DO THAT ..

That isnt accurate. New players want to own their own mech and Mediums are typically cost the amount of C-Bills a new player has after their bonus ends. Mediums in the current game design are underpowered and under-engined. Their is zero reason not to be a Heavy.

Mediums are not good for new players.

[Corison]

Minor note.. mediums by all means are sub-par ad are beat out in almost every regard by other mechs.

This does NOT mean:
a) Good pilots cant d amazing thing with them or perform well. A good pilot will do well in even the worst configuration as they know how to utilize what's available t the maximum advantage.. (See Kov.. )

You shouldn't run them... They can be and frequently are VERY fun to drive. This game is all about having FUN so run whatever mech or configuration you find enjoyable.

In lore/campaigns they very much have a role, and will have more of one if PGI continues to expand map size and objective game types. However in the games current state, your almost always better off running some other mech.

[Mott]

So.... Hunchbacks are mastered and getting a little stale. Damage in matches with the 4SP & 4P is routinely in the 500s and above 300 with the 4H. It's good for racking up some good CBills, but i like to fight for XP with a purpose.

Looking to expand my medium collection and don't know about the Griffin or the Wolverine beyond the loadouts i see on smurfy.
What are their major pros/cons in regards to maneuverability, damage durability, damage dealing, etc?

[Koniving]

I've mentioned it before.

Koniving, on 19 February 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

Here's a missile-based comparison. (Also the Kintaro is a 55 ton mech so I threw it in).

Kintaros can reach many 20 tube weapons on shoulder and arm mounts. (The best cbill one can churn out 85 at once. The Hero can churn 70 at once. The lowest "maximum LRM" count is 60.)

Shadowhawks have the best ballistics. But generally cannot manage more than 30 missiles at once. Only the head launcher increases hitbox size.

Griffins top out at 50 LRMs at once. However, unlike Kintaros the use of any missiles beyond the first launcher and fourth launcher do not increase the size of hitboxes.

Wolverines have shoulder mounted LRMs. All increase the hitbox sizes. Maximum a Wolverine is capable of is 30, lowest max is 10. Only one variant has ballistics.

Griffins and Kintaros have great horizontal attack ranges. Wolverines have great vertical attack ranges. Shadowhawks are pretty limited but can deal damage the fastest due to high numbers of ballistic weapons/large ballistic weapons.

"Max" LRM counts are single volley limits, you can obviously put bigger launchers but those are the maximum number of missiles that churn out in a single salvo.

This vid, a little de-synched (part of the Wolverine fight is out of order), has both a Griffin and a Wolverine in it.

Edited by Koniving, 04 March 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[Corison]

To be honest I would look at the SHD Shadowhawks before the GRF/WVR. Smurfys is a good start though.

(ex Link: mwo.smurfy-net.de)

[jper4]

shadowhawks are probably the most popular of the mediums i'd say based on personal matches only but they do pack one disadvantage the other mediums lack. they don't fare so well in the "hey it's a medium, let's ignore it and shoot something else." category because of it's multi ballistic options which only the more fragile blackjack can approach.

like cicadas are considered honorary/fat lights, shadowhawks are almost honorary/dieting heavies.

that being said i do better in my kintaros than i do in my shadowhawks. don;t have any wolverines or griffins (yet)

[Mott]

Corison, on 04 March 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

To be honest I would look at the SHD Shadowhawks before the GRF/WVR. Smurfys is a good start though.

(ex Link: mwo.smurfy-net.de)

Why though?
Specifically in regards to maneuverability, soaking up damage....

Koniving, on 04 March 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

I've mentioned it before.

I have yet to even attempt an LRM mech... so i'm not sure that breakdown helps me much. Is that - in your opinion - the only viable use for those four chassis?

[Koniving]

Mott, on 04 March 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Why though?
Specifically in regards to maneuverability, soaking up damage....



I have yet to even attempt an LRM mech... so i'm not sure that breakdown helps me much. Is that - in your opinion - the only viable use for those four chassis?

No, but the quoted comparison was from a Griffin thread.
It originally said if it went by stock armor, Wolverine would trump them all, Griffin would trump Shadowhawk and Kintaro would trump Griffin.

It was a comparison of one of the few true differences between them. In which case for LRMs Kintaro and Griffin trump all.

For brawling, Shadowhawks. For leap fighting it's a cross between the Griffin and the Wolverine. Both are pretty deadly but between them the Wolverine can deal more damage faster while jumping. The Griffin's arms seem to draw a lot more damage away from the body.

The Kintaros with center torso missile doors get a 10% protection/damage reduction so long as the doors are closed.

For visibility it's the Griffin with Kintaro following up. Wolverine has good visibility but you get Dragon syndrome if you throw in a head weapon. The Shadowhawk can't see left or right.

All 4 mechs are roughly the same height.