168 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

Time finding game has not changed but the roflstomp is 100x worse now, on both end. When i win its likely 12/0-1 and when i lose its also likely 0-1/12. dont seem to find any balance at all when it comes to mech in each team. Don't think elo has ever balanced any match.

Game need a lobby similar to what Diablo2 haD, a place for everyone to log and chat together, regroup in different chat and make team there. This game need a community so bad, hell it don't even have a general forum.

Edited by DAYLEET, 29 January 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[Merc Montego]

I've noticed no real changes on my end as far as wait times. It does seem that I'm stuck on only a few maps though which I understand likely has nothing to do with the change. As far as "quality matches"? Nope...no way...not even close. Either my team stomps them or they stomp us and in neither case is it fun. It makes for an incredibly frustrating time which really isn't the hallmark of any good game.

I'd rather wait a bit for a good match than hurry into a bad one....

[JDH4mm3r]

Paul,

I don't think you quite understand how your game works. Tell u what, play this game for a month straight, it'll tell u all u need to know..... or at least should. ELO is a laughable idea at best.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

NRP, on 25 January 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

The purpose of this change (and the poll) was to assess whether peoples' average time to find a match changed. It had nothing to do with "unbalanced teams".

And I ask again, why the hell would you ask people to vote on whether they "feel" their average wait changed?

If you were the designer of the game with full access to every bit of data, wouldn't you just start looking at the data from the week before the change and correlate it with the data after the change to see if people are taking longer?

Why ask us? Do you think more than 1 or 2 people here actually tracked their average time to find a match before the change, then did the same after the change (I'm sure there are a couple people that are that OCD).

This is a stupid thread. Not because of what people are complaining about (the matchmaker sucking), but because THE THREAD SHOULD NOT EXIST AT ALL.

Why aren't people understanding this? THIS THREAD IS A DISTRACTION.

Merc Montego, on 25 January 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

I've noticed no real changes on my end as far as wait times. It does seem that I'm stuck on only a few maps though which I understand likely has nothing to do with the change. As far as "quality matches"? Nope...no way...not even close. Either my team stomps them or they stomp us and in neither case is it fun. It makes for an incredibly frustrating time which really isn't the hallmark of any good game.

I'd rather wait a bit for a good match than hurry into a bad one....

Can I ask you a question, and not to put you on the spot, but to highlight a point.

Did you take a stopwatch and time every match before the ELO change?

Then did you do the same after the change?

And did you take all that data to figure out whether matches were taking a longer or shorter time for you?

Keeping in mind that you probably need to match up time of day and such to get somewhat proper statistical data.

So did you do that?

No? Did anyone in this thread do that?

If you did, your vote counts. Everyone else's doesn't, and PGI doesn't really care.

Oh and lets not even bring up that none us know what our ELO score, so how could we know whether this change really was intended to change our wait time anyway?

Good lord, this place is literally going to give me a coronary at 32 because it's so dumb and everyone here is just peachy keen with it.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 25 January 2014 - 12:31 PM.

[NRP]

DAYLEET, on 25 January 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Time finding game has not changed but the roflstomp is 100x worse now, on both end. When i win its likely 12-11/0 and when i lose its also likely 0/12-11. dont seem to find any balance at all when it comes to mech in each team. Don't think elo has ever balanced any match.

Unless I misunderstood what PGI actually did, this shouldn't happen. They narrowed the matchmaker's allowable ELO variance, so you shouldn't be seeing a wider ELO discrepancy on either team.

[anubis969]

NRP, on 25 January 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

As I said, I find this issue intriguing. Might it just be that 12-0/12-2 roflstomps are the nature of this game, even when teams are perfectly balanced in terms of player skill and tonnage? Maybe this is the answer? Once a team loses a mech or two for whatever reason, either through stupid "Leroy Jenkins" charging or if they don't all move as a cohesive unit and encounter superior enemy numbers, maybe the whole damn thing snowballs out of control and leads to a stomp?

Pretty much. Without respawns you're always going to have the risk that if one teams gains the advantage that advantage will snowball.

In a game like say BF, if your initial strategy fails it's not a huge problem because you can fall back, regroup and try again with a new strategy. Thanks to respawns your team will still be fighting at full strength. However in MWO if your initial strategy fails you're in trouble. Sure you can try a new strategy but because whatever 'mechs you lost won't be coming back you're probably going to have to execute that strategy while being at a numerical disadvantage giving a high chance of a stomp.

This is why I personally don't judge how close a game was by the end result but by how well each team played and the likely hood of the match having gone the other way.

That said it's worth keeping in mind that Elo isn't perfect. One of the problems with the current implementation of Elo is that there are many factors that can throw off a persons Elo score such as using the same weight class for both solo and group play, playing more than one 'mech of a given weight class, etc. This can lead to a person performing at a level different from what their Elo score says they should be performing at thus unbalancing the match. Now while one person is unlikely to unbalance the match too much if you have multiple people with an Elo score that is off you can end up with a match that looks balanced on paper but in practise is anything but.

Edited by anubis969, 25 January 2014 - 04:31 PM.

[Thorqemada]

You can respawn almost immediately - in a Mech in another Match...

[Xtrekker]

So, maybe this is a dumb question, but...

Is there some secret way to know what your Elo is?

Also, maybe I just got the wrong take on this in the beginning, but I thought this whole random matchmaker thing was just a crutch to beta the game mechanics a LONG time ago. Could swear I read that somewhere. Now it seems like they've designed the entire game around it. I expected that they would leave it in for people that want random drops since they went to the trouble of developing it, but it appears more and more like this is all we'll ever see. What if all that happens is the results of your random drops affects some stat for your House, and they call that Community Warfare? Just sayin'...

[Rebas Kradd]

NRP, on 25 January 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

As I said, I find this issue intriguing. Might it just be that 12-0/12-2 roflstomps are the nature of this game, even when teams are perfectly balanced in terms of player skill and tonnage? Maybe this is the answer? Once a team loses a mech or two for whatever reason, either through stupid "Leroy Jenkins" charging or if they don't all move as a cohesive unit and encounter superior enemy numbers, maybe the whole damn thing snowballs out of control and leads to a stomp?

This is my theory. It explains why stomps still happen even when tonnages are matched fairly evenly.

[RichAC]

Rebas Kradd, on 25 January 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

This is my theory. It explains why stomps still happen even when tonnages are matched fairly evenly.

Ya real close matches will probably be less common then 12-3 or w/e, no matter what PGI does. Especially in the skirmish mode. Its natural imo.


But regarding my wait times, at first they real long on the first day, now they are very short and getting some good matches. GJ.

[MischiefSC]

My match times are longer, not sure why.

[Deathlike]

Xtrekker, on 25 January 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

So, maybe this is a dumb question, but...

Is there some secret way to know what your Elo is?

Unfortunately, there isn't a way, except the unscientific answer.

Here's a quick version of it that is totally my opinion:

Play enough matches within a 1 or 2 hour span, and find many particular players you see time and time again, over a period of 2 weeks to a month. Some would say "LARGE AND DIVERSE PLAYERBASE", others will say "they are in your ELO bracket". Figure out which is the truth and which is the lie (they are neither both truth nor both lies).

MischiefSC, on 25 January 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

My match times are longer, not sure why.

I'm hazarding a guess that they are making it more inclusive to keep you in the queues longer, but also taking a "slower" approach in ELO range expansion.

However, it's kinda resulting in the same "quality" matches that Paul is claiming, except replace quality with "lopsided team construction" featuring more newbies (trial champion mechs are the dead giveaway, with very low damage outputs or short TTKs). Tonnage limits won't magically fix bad.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 January 2014 - 01:18 AM.

[Xtrekker]

Rebas Kradd, on 25 January 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

This is my theory. It explains why stomps still happen even when tonnages are matched fairly evenly.

I still think it still comes down to PUG vs premade. Not all the time of course, but when a group figures out that they can all move at once, expose themselves all at the same time, and all fire at the same target, they win. Many of the stomps I witness seem like they shouldn't be stomps...the team just rolls into you with reckless abandon and you can't react well enough as single players defend against it. Even a good player can't defend against a bad team consistently. If you happen to have a team on your end, they probably aren't sticking around to work with the rest of the team, they are off on their own trying to cull PUGs from the other team.

Back in the day, MW3/4 team games resulted in some epic 1v1 or 2v2 duels. It just doesn't seem to be the case now. Most of the time when I die now, it's because I'm facing a wall of mechs that have no problem insta-gibbing my CT, a side, or a leg. If I manage to get someone off on their own for a few moments, I have to chase them back to their team while they try to preserve their precious K/D instead of fighting. It's like you vs another guy who can tag in Mike Tyson whenever he feels like it. It's a weird game now.

Almost inevitably whenever a game feels REALLY fun and both teams are congratulating each other, going on about what a great fight it was, etc., it's PUG vs PUG. I just don't think there is any way to balance teams when one is communicating via voice and one isn't. The only way I see Elo working effectively is if PUGs and premades are separated, or premades are given some kind of Elo multiplier (like 4-man group = avg. Elo x 1.4 or something). It's just the nature of teamwork. It's an advantage that can't be overcome except by teamwork. I'm sure if the stats were publicly available, the issue would be ridiculously obvious.

[Bront]

Shorter, and generally matches that didn't seem as disfunctional as I occasionally see.

Cathy, on 23 January 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

shorter, however I don't think the stomp issue is the ELO

In most cases the stomp has been caused by a big weight imbalance, I know there isn't much you can do about a 4 man all deciding to run locusts, but in most cases the imbalance isn't caused by this

I've had stomps where we were down 200-300 tons and rolled the other team, so Tonnage isn't everything, but it does help when the tonnage matches are a little closer.

[DAYLEET]

NRP, on 25 January 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

Unless I misunderstood what PGI actually did, this shouldn't happen. They narrowed the matchmaker's allowable ELO variance, so you shouldn't be seeing a wider ELO discrepancy on either team.

Which is why i said "don't think elo has ever balanced any match". It just does not work. This isnt a skill/twitch game, you cant add some stats and put better people together like a normal fps. Theres too many variables that can change the tide of a match and doom you or make you win regardless how how good you are.

The only sensible thing that can be done is remove all elo, make sure theres no full premade versus pug and no lance premade unless the other side has them too. In pugs you should limit group size loggin in and for the love of god dont start a match without 2 full team. Im not exagerating when i say half my match last night were down 1 man and some 2 man.

[BA Dillard]

Much, much better. Shorter waits, and every match so far have been closely fought. GJ! It can only get better.

[BOWMANGR]

+1 for dividing PUGs and premades. If they actually do this, many things will come to light. A secondary effect will be that many people who are riding on their high horse because they have high K/D ratios {which means absolutely nothing in a role based tactical game} or "win with their mics" if you know what I mean, will learn humility... And this is a good thing. PGI, do it!

You can try to fix the matchmaker 24/7 and fail every time simply because premade vs PUG cannot.be.balanced. It's not quantum physics, it's common sense.

[JeepStuff]

I haven't noticed a big difference in wait times, but it does seem like there are more even matches now -- less stomps. It seems like I've been getting much better games. Glad for that.

Edited by EJT, 26 January 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[lpmagic]

anything is faster then "failed to find match" so in that respect it much faster

I have not noticed ay big stomps, and I can say that the quality of opponents has gotten better on average for me, which is very good IMHO, My chances of moving my win loss closer to even appear to be on the rise. Currently it is not close to even, it is very lopsided. I love the challenge this is representing ATM.

[Imperius]

VOIP would stop this so called STOMPING issue the "key" to the issue is a lack of tools for communication. You type your mech doesn't move and is a typing rock. If you could talk messages would make it out.

I'd like to see you look at the lower ELO players and see how often they talk (type) I bet it's more than the Higher ELO players who group and use TS.

Also, I'm in favor of a optional stat wipe every month or 3 months. With a seasonal ELO wipe by you guys.

Edited by Imperius, 26 January 2014 - 05:41 PM.