79 replies to this topic

[MoonUnitBeta]

And yet there isn’t much that players can do to defend themselves.

Save for ECM and Seismic Sensor, and sheer speed in some cases, there isn’t much in MWO that you can do to really defend yourself! Controlling the battlefield? I’d like there to be more ways we can curb FOTM (currently ballistics), and remove a majority of the reliance on PGI to fix the weapons balance 6 or so months later…

Hardened / Reactive / Reflective / Stealth Armor / Blue Shield(tx Khobai) – These are a given and need to be put in, the exception being stealth armor, maybe. All of these equipable upgrades help pilots defend and protect themselves against popular weapons. Someone corrected me about reactive armor (damn you MW4 for deceiving me!), defences against ballistics seem a little scarce unless someone can inform me. Various armor types will help us protect against the incredibly slow weapon balancing. These types of armor advancements give players the tools they need to react against those imperfections. Currently there's nothing that we can do except to wait and depend on PGI to fix things for us. If we had what we needed to equip our mechs with, we can balance the scales on our own. Please do not talk to me about the “time-line” if these armor types aren’t relevant. The timeline doesn’t exist.

Passive Radar – Why not? Reducing your signature is a must if scouts want to have any chance scouting / spotting. ECM can only do so much. With BAP being a direct ECM hard counter that ANY mech can use(NARC being another option to counter ECM), ECM is rendered pretty useless once another scout with BAP spots you and closes the distance.

Cover (trees) – The density depends on the graphics (they should be sprites that dissolve into 3D objects). While trees offer visual coverage, they currently don’t offer any defence against targeting systems; they should to some extent (except for tag)*. To make trees effective in current times, you need to have ECM, otherwise you’d be better off behind a rock or building.

MASC – It’s coming! I cannot wait for this. Being able to shake a light that matches your speed really depends on if you have jump jets or not. It’s even worse if they have JJ’s and you don’t. Again, if you’re alone there’s basically nothing you can do except stand your ground and try fighting, there is no point in running unless it’s to the middle of your group. MASC will hopefully give some other mechs to get far enough ahead and fill the gap with some cover. Other additions include Triple Strength Myomer, and Supercharger.

Mines – They’re coming(MAYBE)? I also can’t wait for this. A perfect tool that mediums and lights can use when baiting mechs. “Oh noo, I’m a wee little jenner that came out of the tunnel and ran away and I’ve pulled the attention of another light mech”, BLAMO! Mines! Surprise! That will teach you to follow me! Or lay them down in the path of a popular route. The result is a cautious, and emphasized “thinking person’s shooter”.

Those are the most prominent things that come to mind.

However, regardless of the length of this list (there’s mooore!), I cannot stress how badly we need more things to help defend ourselves with. It would greatly dampen the effects of ineffective weapons balancing, it would validate the effectiveness of the scouting role, allow for effective flanking when radars are set to passive, and with other additions the ability to play a certain way expands.

Thoughts? Isn't there anything you would like to see to help improve how YOU can make a difference?

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 23 January 2014 - 09:41 PM.

[Villz]

Best post I've read on the forums in a LONGGGG time.

Too bad most people that play this game are terrible and don't understand anything other than "<<INSERT WEAPON THAT KILLS ME MOST HERE>> is OP, nerf plx.

Those changes would all be great i liked my idea of an IR smoke launcher module 2.

If onl the could get hit detection / hsr / netcode working ontop of all this.

The game might even be working correctly @ that point ....

Edited by Villz, 23 January 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Noth]

Reactive armor doesn't do anything to standard AC rounds. It only helps against missiles, artillery and the special AP AC rounds (that we do not have in the game).

Timeline does exist. If it didn't we would have many more weapons than we have now. Just because it is paused, does not mean it does not exist.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Noth, on 23 January 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

Timeline does exist. If it didn't we would have many more weapons than we have now. Just because it is paused, does not mean it does not exist.

Ooops! Thanks for the correction on Reactive armor. I'll fix it in the OP to avoid misinforming people. Thanks!

RE: Timeline
PGI has said that it started out as a 1:1 scale. But, they couldn’t keep up (biggest fail was Clans not coming out), so a few months later they said that it’s more just a “guideline” now, so they aren’t putting in Uziel’s and Tarantula’s. The “news” feed has ended as well They aren’t following TT rules now because this is a video game and runs in realtime so the translation from TT to Video needs fixing. (kinda like translating “Nice buns!” into dutch. It wouldn’t make sense because the Dutch don’t refer to butts as buns, so you need to make exceptions.)

The mwomercs.com/clock is purely an experiment as per twitter (I forget who tweeted it) and isn’t official.

So in favour of game balance, they’ve made deviations from TT. Due to their limited resources, they couldn’t get everything out during the 1:1 timeline scale and deviated from that, and claimed that it was merely a guideline. However, for the sake of gameplay, they should consider the timeline doesn’t exist for a moment, and advance certain technologies that would not normally be available at this time.

Edited.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 23 January 2014 - 03:45 PM.

[627]

Mines... the whining would be deafening

You know what's the most hated weapon in Battlefield? and the second most hated one in planetside? AP-mines (Claymores).

I doubt we'll ever see them but the QQ meltdown would be a hell of a show

[MoonUnitBeta]

627, on 23 January 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

Mines... the whining would be deafening

You know what's the most hated weapon in Battlefield? and the second most hated one in planetside? AP-mines (Claymores).

I doubt we'll ever see them but the QQ meltdown would be a hell of a show

Haha yeah, it would be fun! But it might not be too bad. One thing for sure is that Mines will be a consumable. And that means you will only be able to have one equipped. The less certain, but makes for an interesting conversation, is if Mines will persist through the entire match once dropped, or be on a time limit before they disappear.
My personal preference is for them to have a time limit once dropped. When the time limit expires, they become duds. However the visual effect doesn't disappear, so they still can pose as a threat, it's just after say, 2 minutes, they won't explode if stepped on. Maybe they will if you fire at them though. But I'd like it if they persisted through the match, and expire at some point.
I can understand it would be pretty chinsy if an entire team armed an entire area full of mines, and some poor sod 10 minutes later booking it to their base for the win, barrels through the mine field and, without knowing it, gets butt hole heartburn and explodes into a million pieces. So, I vote yes to a time limit. There HAS TO be some end to the madness, and while you have mines, you still need to take consideration when laying them. The time limit should at least be long enough to perform a successful bait and deal some heavy damage to a mechs leg, but not outrageous so that you can use them care-free and almost be guaranteed that someone is going to set them off.

Edit: In regards to the possibility of multiple mines / consumable, say 3. I might suggest that there be a time limit between laying them, at least 1/3 the amount of the time it takes before the previous mine expires.

What about friendly fire? Only hostile mechs only, or should friendlies set the mines off as well? If friendlies can set them off, I hope PGI makes the UI highlight them clearly on all friendly screens, and put a big red X over top of them so players can see NOT TO STEP THERE. or even a small >> DO NOT STEP << warning underneath the mine when within 250 meters of it.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 23 January 2014 - 05:08 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Timeline doesn't support what you're asking for.

Please try again.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Jade Kitsune, on 23 January 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

Timeline doesn't support what you're asking for.

Please try again.

Unlike you, I refuse to be "comfortably numb" towards the stale game play and weapon balancing. You can weapon balance only so much before things like Ghost Heat start coming into effect. There needs to be more to this game. The "not in timeline sry lulz" is hardly a valid excuse anymore. See my above response to Noth.

edit: I removed some lines. I'm sorry I'm in a grumpy mood... normally I'm not so scoffing... But a more thorough response would be appreciated.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 23 January 2014 - 06:23 PM.

[Ryokens leap]

Maybe it's time to double armour values again...

[Artgathan]

Why not an IR smoke dispenser to break missile lock and reduce laser damage?

[SpiralRazor]

Jade Kitsune, on 23 January 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

Timeline doesn't support what you're asking for.

Please try again.

timeline? There is no timeline anymore....you slow or perhaps not paying attention to the current state of affairs?

[FupDup]

Jade Kitsune, on 23 January 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

Timeline doesn't support what you're asking for.

Please try again.

Move the timeline forwards, then. It also has the side-effect of unlocking other fun and useful pieces of equipment such as Light ACs (although the LAC/5 might be slightly OP at only 5 tons and 2 slots...) and Magshot Gauss Rifles (basically an alternative to the MG for the same weight).

Edited by FupDup, 23 January 2014 - 06:21 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

FupDup, on 23 January 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

EDIT: And to clarify Reactive Armor for the OP, it has a damage reduction against missiles, artillery, and other explosives (50% reduction), but no effects on any other damage types. It takes up 14 critical slots and gives the same number of points per ton as normal armor.

Thanks fup! You reminded me I needed to change that haha. I added other armor types too. Stealth armor is questionable for me though, I would agree that it's way far ahead of it's time to be in this game. If PGI takes care in implementing Passive radar and tree cover, along with quality maps, there shouldn't even be a need for stealth armor. But I included it anyways.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 23 January 2014 - 06:43 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Ryokens leap, on 23 January 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

Maybe it's time to double armour values again...

Well .. maybe! haha, I would certainly welcome it, but playing smart can make a person last pretty long already. It would be a welcome fix while they implement the other items/armor... but I feel double might be too much... but i can't really say. It'd be temporary. Since everyone is getting the same buff and the only thing you chose is how many points of armor you use (which should be max armor, except for un-used components and legs in some scenario's), it would still make the game an arms race. Too much armor and fighting would feel tedious, and people will be begging for ammo increases. Hmmmmmm..

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 23 January 2014 - 06:31 PM.

[Cerberias]

Great idea, TAKE NOTE PGI.

[Damocles69]

@op

the internet points: you win them

[Profiteer]

Jade Kitsune, on 23 January 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

Timeline doesn't support what you're asking for.

Please try again.

This game's longevity doesn't support the timeline.

Put it in now... or never.

[Lightfoot]

Yep, Mechlab is pretty boring these days. I have the best loadouts that the nerfs have left behind already configured. Better armor types would please alot of nerf-wanters and give me something to do with my CBills and MC's.

Well, Stealth Armor would be cool, I usually use Clan FF or Standard, given the choice.

Shadowcat with MASC.

Edited by Lightfoot, 23 January 2014 - 08:12 PM.

[Khobai]

Great minds think alike. Ive suggested all these ideas in the past at one time or another.

hardened armor - great way to help balance IS vs Clan, since its only available to IS, allowing hardened armor means less nerfs to clan weapons! hardened armor would basically allow IS mechs to carry extra armor at the cost of extra tonnage and a penalty to movement speed and stability. Additionally, armor piercing ammo could be added which would deal extra damage to hardened armor (but less damage to non-hardened armor). This would prevent hardened armor from dominating the meta.

reflective armor/reactive armor/blue shield - these give players a way to change the meta themselves by giving them the tools to counter the dominant weapon of the month. The result would be seeing a lot more mixed builds that arnt shut down completely by defensive items. blue shield should also be added to this list, its an item with 3050 availability that counters PPCs.

passive radar - Ive mentioned this in other threads. passive radar, null signature system, and stealth armor should all be added to the game. The AOE stealth capability of ECM should also be removed completely. Each mech should be responsible for their own stealth. Information warfare in general needs a revamp and should be based on a sort of rock paper scissors interaction between stealth (nss), detection (bap), and disruption (ecm) elements.

area cover - different types of terrain providing area cover bonuses has been suggested before. this would not only make MWO more like battletech but also make MWO more tactical by making terrain matter. this also goes hand in hand with movement penalties for moving through woods and water. Additionally certain types of terrain might give you a piloting check penalty when rolling for knockdowns.

mines - I suggested adding different types of lrms a while ago. among them would be thunder lrms which are basically lrms which drop mines on the ground. The idea was to give lrms different ammo types in order to make them more of a utility weapon, since they dont really compete with direct fire weapons at the moment.

Edited by Khobai, 23 January 2014 - 08:11 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Khobai, on 23 January 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

Great minds think alike. Ive suggested all these ideas in the past at one time or another.

hardened armor - great way to balance IS vs clan, since its only available to IS, allowing hardened armor means less nerfs to clan weapons!

reflective armor/reactive armor/blue shield - these give players a way to change the meta themselves by countering the dominant weapon. The result would be seeing a lot more mixed builds that arnt shut down by defensive items. blue shield should also be added to this list, its an item with 3050 availability that counters PPCs.

passive radar - Ive mentioned this in other threads. passive radar, null signature system, and stealth armor should all be added to the game. The AOE stealth capability of ECM should also be removed completely. Each mech should be responsible for their own stealth.

area cover - different types of terrain providing area cover bonuses has been suggested numerous times. this not only makes MWO more like battletech but also makes MWO more tactical by making terrain matter. this also goes hand in hand with movement penalties for moving through woods and water.

mines - I suggested adding different types of lrms a while ago. among them would be thunder lrms which are basically lrms which drop mines on the ground. My idea was to give lrms different ammo types in order to make them more of a utility weapon, since they dont really compete with direct fire weapons at the moment.

Excellent, totally agree! And thanks for reminding me about blue shield. All day i was thinking "It's blue something... blue.. blue.. bluuuuee...."
THE PEN.. IS RRREEEEEeeeeeOOOYAL BLUUUUE!!!

Adding Blue Shield. Thank you.