19 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

I'm very confused. I read about the CTF heavy mech, 2 of which come with an XL-280.. ilya, and the 3D.. I bought the 4x, But i cannot put the XL280 that i already own in it. the biggest engine i can put is the 255.. (i own a 250 std, Was really considering buying a 255 STD, to use that last .5 weight in my HBK-4sp.) i'm wondering what i am doing wrong and why it wont fit.




My other Q, is about machine guns.. what is the best way to use these? are they good for stripping off armor, or do you use heavier AC's for that? Are they best used for when armor is gone? Or do you just use um to fire away slowly chipping off damage? (i have been using them and lasers on lights up close, seams to work ok till i can line up a AC shot too.

So far i am really liking this new mech, outside of being slower than a turtle on a cold rainy day.. But boy does it take a pounding. (unless of course you get swarmed by 4 jenners with LRM support on alpine.. )



Any other tips around using a 4X that might help me? I read some builds that had 4 AC's, but that also had an XL engine which i don't have the money for, so thinking about just upgrading to endo, to add more ammo, or perhaps i could upgrade to double M-pulse, and toss in the extra ton of ammo and use that last .5 to add armor to my legs.. (something i striped .5 on to add another laser in the first place).

I wonder if the double MPulse would do more damage than 2 ML, or is it just the shorter duration of time for more pin-point damage? I know 4 ML, seam to do better than 4 M-pulse, but i wonder if it holds true for 2 ML vs 2 MP? anyone know?

[TercieI]

It's a unique characteristic of the 4X that its engine is capped at 255. XL255 and 4 AC/5 is the "standard" build (and it's pretty brutal)

[TheCaptainJZ]

1. The default loadout of the 4x has a smaller engine and there is a max engine cap on all mechs. Normally, all variants have the same engine, but not always. What you have done is purchased the slow cataphract which has a smaller max engine.

2. Machine guns do almost no damage to armor. They have a bonus against crit seeking and that is what they are good for. In practice, one or maybe even 2 machine guns don't seem effective at all. You need 3 or more to see them doing much crit damage.

3. I don't own the 4x, but you could try Ac2s until you can upgrade the engine. You also could just use 2 acs like Ac10s or 5s. Med lasers are probably better than pulses because they have a much farther range and produce less heat.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Re: MPL vs. ML - the pulse laser has a shorter duration (0.6s rather than 1.0s) and an extra point of damage (6 rather than 5) but weighs twice as much (2 tons rather than 1), wastes more heat (numbers escape me), and has a significantly shorter range (180/360max rather than 270/540max).

Generally, using normal lasers is preferable as you always have extra tonnage for heatsinks as well as a better range envelope, without much in the way of reduced damage output.

For your example above, yes, 2MPL would do more damage than 2ML (12>10) but the range would be worse (180<270)and the heat would be more difficult to manage.

[DrSlamastika]

JC Daxion: take a look here -
http://mwomercs.com/...-4x-good-setup/

[JC Daxion]

AH i didn't realize different variants could have different max engines.


As for that thread, I did read it, but most use that 255 XL, which i don't own... As for that, i am liking the AC-10+machine gun combo, with the ML's.. It really doesn't get to hot either. If i add endo, i can goto Pulse, and add AMS.. I may just try that down the road. for right now it seems to be working nicely.

[Metafox]

If you go to the following link, you can look up engine sizes, torso/arm movement ranges, and many other details for every mech chassis:

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

Edited by Metafox, 23 January 2014 - 08:26 PM.

[Koniving]

Machine guns are best used for killing things when treated like lasers that never stop firing.

(My favorite thing about this shot; it looks like my Cataphract is about to get back up; it refuses to lay down.)

[IraqiWalker]

Everyone has answered pretty much everything. So I'll just add a build for you.

CTF-4X
That's a simple build for the CTF-4X.

This one is the AC2 set up. You can wail non-stop with this baby. It's also a STD engine, so you don't need to worry about losing a side, it won't even effect your bullet count.

CTF-4X Rainmaker
Once you have the money to get Endo steel PM me, and I'll doctor up a mech for you.

[SnagaDance]

Koniving, on 23 January 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

Machine guns are best used for killing things when treated like lasers that never stop firing.

(My favorite thing about this shot; it looks like my Cataphract is about to get back up; it refuses to lay down.)

'Til I collapse I'm grabbing these caps long as you feel 'em
'til the day that I drop you'll never say that I'm not killing 'em
Cause when I am not, then I'mma stop pewwing 'em
And I am not inna blob and I'm just not Koniving

[Spawnsalot]

Try this build, CTF-4X (You may want to tweak the armour to your liking - I just hit the "Max Armour" button)

Keep lasers for backup and just hold down the fire button on the AC's and MG's while you close the distance between you and your victim.

It's close to my current build except I've downgraded the engine in mine to a 245, added streaks to shoo away lights and removed AMS. (Although I think I'll change to that build when I finish mastering other mechs...)

As to machine gun use, despite their appearance they are hit scan weapons so no need to lead them. They're next to useless on armour but once you've smashed through it with your dual AC/10's they will get to work mincing up your targets internals.

Enjoy!

[Tahribator]

JC Daxion, on 23 January 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

My other Q, is about machine guns.. what is the best way to use these? are they good for stripping off armor, or do you use heavier AC's for that? Are they best used for when armor is gone? Or do you just use um to fire away slowly chipping off damage? (i have been using them and lasers on lights up close, seams to work ok till i can line up a AC shot too.

Machine guns are best used in numbers(2+). They don't do much damage(~1 DPS, still not bad) when the enemy has armor, but when you're shooting at a component with open internals, it has increased crit chances. A machine gun round normally does 0.1 damage, but it has crit chances:

• 6% chance of doing 0.9 damage.
  
• 3% chance of doing 1.8 damage.
  
• 1% chance of doing 2.6 damage.

This is for every MG bullet you fire. So when you mass MG's, they quickly become crit machines and just devastate mechs with open internals. Try it with a 4MG Spider, 6MG Jager, 3MG Battlemaster and so on; you'll quickly notice how effective they are. The problem is getting through the armor.

Anyways, I don't suggest using MG's on a CTF-4X. Those arms are made to be boated with AC's

[Koniving]

Try 3 Mgs and either an AC/2, LB-10x or AC/10 with 2 MPL and an SRM-4. The AC/LB and SRM-4 make up for the MGs' inability to get through armor. The LB and MGs compliment each other as nearly instant-kill machines when the armor is gone. The ACs, SRM-4, and MPLs are quick to remove armor.

Best part is you can get a standard 255 engine, max armor, and still carry more than enough ammo to keep fighting for 15 minutes.

Or if you prefer, this older build is pretty solid. XL 180 engine (can go bigger now, as UACs get 10 shots more per ton now), lots of ammo. Starts as a support fire role, followed by being the sole survivor that takes out the rest of the enemies. 2 UAC/5s, AC/2, 2 MPL. Despite its slow nature and heavily allocated front armor (all but 5 armor put to the front), it manages to fend off lights and take on just about anything that does attack it. (At the time of this video, it was still my ~only~ cataphract; basics only.)

Edited by Koniving, 24 January 2014 - 07:44 AM.

[AaronWolf]

Koniving, on 23 January 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

Machine guns are best used for killing things when treated like lasers that never stop firing.

(My favorite thing about this shot; it looks like my Cataphract is about to get back up; it refuses to lay down.)

I was pretty sure Kon's mechs were demon machines he created by harvesting souls.

Or it's this bumper sticker giving it power;

[Koniving]

AaronWolf, on 24 January 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

I was pretty sure Kon's mechs were demon machines he created by harvesting souls.

A lot of practice in a red shirt will let you get away with anything.

[AaronWolf]

Koniving, on 24 January 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

A lot of practice in a red shirt will let you get away with anything.

I feel that Wesley Crusher had something to do with this...and the Traveler.

Because Kon being a redshirt is against logic. Atleast I could see him in Engineering. Not dying.

[Koniving]

AaronWolf, on 24 January 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

I feel that Wesley Crusher had something to do with this...and the Traveler.

Because Kon being a redshirt is against logic. Atleast I could see him in Engineering. Not dying.

"Koni, I need more power!"

"I've given 'er all she's got Cap'in, but that meta rig jus' ain't gonna do ya no more good. What you really need are jus' some flamers and shotguns. Try this, I call 'er the IKBoSy. Or this, I call 'er Blinding Death. But Cap'n, before you go rushin' out in the open you jus' gotta remember one thing."

"What's that, Koni?"

"Try 'n' look unimportant, it's the Cap'ns that are wearin' the red shirts now."

Edited by Koniving, 24 January 2014 - 08:39 AM.

[AaronWolf]

Koniving, on 24 January 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

"Koni, I need more power!"

"I've given 'er all she's got Cap'in, but that meta rig jus' ain't gonna do ya no more good. What you really need are jus' some flamers and shotguns. Try this, I call 'er the IKBoSy."

"Yaaayyyyyy, I actually got my own kill this time!"

[BLOOD WOLF]

all i know is, i have a cataphract with XL 255 and its my best mech by far, on a bad day i still stomp with it.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 24 January 2014 - 08:48 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Spawnsalot, on 24 January 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

Try this build, CTF-4X (You may want to tweak the armour to your liking - I just hit the "Max Armour" button)

that is basically what i am running, but no endo.. seems to work pretty darn well.





Onto another Q,

I know this is not really about the topic of the 4x, but i need my second mech, I think i will get the 3D, but that is a lotta money (i'm guessing cause of the XL engine) so i was thinking about the other 2.. the hero mech seems like a nice choice, but i think that is more of a down the road/sale thing.. (almost pulled the trigger on it during dec... why didn't i??)


anyway, the 1X, basically looks like a 4G with more armor/slower.. But the 2x seems like it has a ton more combo's i could play with.. room for LRM's or Streaks, Heavy AC20, PPC's, large pulse ect.. really leaning towards the 2x. Any reason why i should take the 1x instead? I'm guessing the meta of AC+PPC would work well, but i have never been a meta guy, so that is not really a selling point, besides it seems like you could do that in the 2x as well.

Edited by JC Daxion, 26 January 2014 - 02:40 PM.