164 replies to this topic

[Bagheera]

Khobai, on 26 January 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

ideally that would be the case. in reality its not. a fully weaponized and armored jager Victor can still go 80kph.

ftfy

[kapusta11]

Skyfaller, on 26 January 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Some people are missing the point. If heavy and assault mechs can go up to 80kph (most at 70's) and load very heavy weaponry and armor then a medium mech going at 110 kph but loading much weaker weapons and having much weaker armor and being ALMOST as big as a heavy mech (aka, as easy to hit!) then what is the point of mediums?

It does not matter if someone gets a Blackjack with an AC20 and ravages the enemy team with it... the pilot would do much better if he had been using a heavy mech that was slightly slower yet twice as better armed and armored.

The difference in speed is minimal. A 20 to 40kph speed difference is irrelevant when your mech (medium in this case) is as easy to hit as a heavy mech.

The heavier mechs need to have their speeds lowered so that the mediums have a niche advantage.

Pretty much this, but I'd rather increase medium's agility (acceleration\decel\turn speed etc. - everything but top speed) to those of the highest engine available. Most assaults are slow enough I think.

[Murzao]

Mediums are fine, I can count the times I've lost a 1v1 fight to a heavier mech on one hand in thousands of games. Back in the day the 8 Centurion zerg was the only counter to the 6 Atlas+2 Raven ECM fest....it was funny crushing the ECMfest. When weight limits come, just like in the weighted tourneys run nowadays....if a team tries the 2 HGN+2RVN route the HGNs get quickly overrun and then what are the ERPPC Ravens gonna do but overheat themselves while they get capped and lose.

The problem is most players (especially 'higher elo' players) are yellow and will cower in a zergball with as much armor/weapons as they can get so they don't get wrecked so they can feel like they're good at this game.....which they clearly are not.

Aka you run a 2PPC/AC20 build you are clearly bad at this game. Congrats.

[Roland]

Murzao, on 26 January 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

Mediums are fine, I can count the times I've lost a 1v1 fight to a heavier mech on one hand in thousands of games.

What is the medium weight chassis which you run which can routinely solo a competent assault pilot? Given that they can essentially cripple any medium in two shots, inquiring minds want to know what type of mech you are describing here.

There are lots of BAD assault pilots who you can kill in virtually any mech.. but you seem to be suggesting that you are able to solo ANYONE in your medium weight chassis, which would suggest that either you are one of the best pilots in the game, or you have found some medium chassis which is effectively superior to almost all heavy and assault chassis. I'm curious as to what you think that build is.

[ArchSight]

You all can keep debating about whether medium mechs is good/useless or not but in the end people are just going to do what’s good for themselves and not what you all think they should do. Discussions like these only leads to teams telling their players to not play mediums which put players with medium mechs on the bench.

If you want to find what’s good about medium mechs you need to watch how medium mech enthusiasts play them 40 - 55tons, no matter what weapons they have, and figure it out for yourselves. Hypothesizing and theory crafting on the forums is not enough. Cold hard facts need to be obtained instead of opinions like I think 20kph faster doesn't matter. I've already dropped a good amount of information on why mediums are good/not useless to a team in other medium mech discussion threads which this one is a duplicate of. I want you all to figure it out instead of making stuff up.

Edited by ArchSight, 26 January 2014 - 02:18 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

deally that would be the case. in reality its not. a fully weaponized and armored jager Victor can still go 80kph.

My victors only go 78kph

Quote

If you want to find what’s good about medium mechs you need to watch how medium mech enthusiasts play them 40 - 55tons, no matter what weapons they have, and figure it out for yourselves. Hypothesizing and theory crafting on the forums is not enough.Cold hard facts need to be obtained instead of opinions like I think 20kph faster doesn't matter.

There are cold hard facts. We see those facts every time we play the game. Mediums are undeniably inferior to Heavies. And it transcends beyond scaling issues. Its also lack of speed/agility and forced dependency on XL as well.

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2014 - 02:33 PM.

[Mystere]

Don't people just play for fun anymore?

[Khobai]

Quote

Don't people just play for fun anymore?

If I wanted to play for fun id play hello kitty island adventure.

[Murzao]

@Roland PM me and I'll show you my buildouts.

#1 rule of winning is to shoot first. In a medium you should always be able to land your hits first. Once you hit the heavy in the torso in your first volley he will be hiding more than trying to kill you. Always. Most heavies (Phracts/Jaegers/Victors almost always facetank so it's realllllly easy to hit torsos)......and they don't have that much more side armor if you hit them first the game is even (if not you're ahead)! Against assaults you just have to reposition a few times but if you use your speed and mobility like you should, it's a piece of cake.

There really isn't any such thing as a competent assault/heavy pilot once you learn how to take AC20 (or 2PPC) rounds on your arms (and protect your legs) you should always win (mediums have the best twist of any class)......and in the last year people should have a lot of practice in that.

And yea Roland last time I played a few days ago, on Tourmaline I was playing a fast 2AC2 build and I dragged a premade 3 Victor poptarts to the side and was giving more than I got for 5 minutes from super long range......our team was up 5-1 rolling the other side....but instead of charging said Victors the pugs popped their head up 1 at a time and died like {Surat}. Ah pugs. I actually use a variety of 'nonmeta' weapons on multiple builds which is possible when you can twist to take hits (and get the first hit).

But yup waiting for weight limits so there's only 2-3 easily manageable assault poptarts instead of 5-7.

[FupDup]

Mystere, on 26 January 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Don't people just play for fun anymore?

Assaults and heavies are fun (unless you're a weird type who doesn't like crushing giant robots).

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 26 January 2014 - 09:24 PM, said:

Assaults and heavies are fun (unless you're a weird type who doesn't like crushing giant robots).

Oh! They are fun! In fact, I've been crushing assaults and heavies all night, in a trash Wolverine no less.

Now if only my PUG team mates are also capable of doing the same.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 26 January 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

Now if only my PUG team mates are also capable of doing the same.

You're asking for too much. Go lower your ELO some more!

Edited by Deathlike, 26 January 2014 - 09:50 PM.

[Firewuff]

Mediums are designed as light killers. They are fast, have insane torso twise which is considerablyfaster and further than most heavise and lights. They also aaccelerate and stop quicker than heavies and assaults.

My hunchback is a deadly mech. Uac5 + 2mg +2ll is agile and deadly. I've scored 6+ kills and 800dmg including an atlas and 2stalkers in that game. My shadowhawk and Griffin are just as nasty in theirown ways. Almost as fast as a lightbut packing a heap more firepower its scary.

Yes my bbattle master has an alpha of 36 odd and triple ac2s to mess you up after but it just doesn't track as well.

Anyone who thinks lights are **** are usually the same pilots who thinklocust are ****. You need a different play style and font slug it out with a mech twice your size. You need to use your speed and agility.

There is nothing wrong with mediums in the right hands Andi don't think PGI needs to 'fix' anything really.

[Blackfire1]

Wow... nice.

[ByteHacker]

I truly believe that Mediums mechs are completely pointless ,

Just look at that, pathetic damage. Only 866 for this match.

[Stormwolf]

Mediums are the most common type of mech around, unfortunately this fact goes out the window in MWO where you can grind/spend money to get every mech.

[Sug]

Varent, on 24 January 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

Your doing it wrong. Most heavies that are good are just barely cresting the 80s. where as 80 kph is pretty much a minimum speed for most mediums. Many mediums can get past 100kph without batting an eye.

100 - 80 = 20

Go 20kph and tell me how fast you feel. It's not fast enough to get away. It's not a huge advantage.

[Augustus Martelus II]

I killed 7 mechs in one match with my hunchi

The other team didnt put attention on me so i got these results.

1 er ppc and 3 med pulses

Med mechs have a role, like lights one have an other. Well each mech class have a different one.

The speed aint a problem.

[Rushin Roulette]

"What is the point in mediums?"

Traditionally the sharp bit

[meteorol]

Murzao, on 26 January 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

There really isn't any such thing as a competent assault/heavy pilot once you learn how to take AC20 (or 2PPC) rounds on your arms (and protect your legs) you should always win (mediums have the best twist of any class)......and in the last year people should have a lot of practice in that.

I really don't want to bust your bubble, but i think you grossly underestimate what good assault pilots can do.

If you are taking ac20's and PPCs to your arm, you are facing a bad assault pilot.
Infact, torso twisting becomes less effective the better your enemies are. This is not limited to assault pilots, it's true for every weight class. It's viable tactic in quite a few situations, but it won't help much in an open one on one against a pilot of equal skills.

Why?
Because a good pilot simply won't shoot your arms if there is no reason to. Period.
He will use the time to cool down, wait for you to twist back and put a juicy 30-40 point alpha right where he wants it to be. No matter how hard you twist, sooner or later you WILL have to face towards him if you want to get a shot off.
This will be the moment when you recieve his whole payload. And you won't take it to the arms, that's for sure.

Generally speaking: If you can hit his torso, he will be able to hit your torso too. Even if you make use of the maximum span of your arm mounted weapons your torso can still be hit in alot of mechs.

If you play against a pilot who know what he does, the duell will be decided through damage to the location it hurts the most. Twisting your torso won't make them shoot your arms. it just increases the time between the hits you take to said location.

Edited by meteorol, 27 January 2014 - 07:54 AM.