78 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

Prime time Sat usually has some good players on.

[Sug]

Ghogiel, on 25 January 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

Prime time Sat usually has some good players on.

Uhg that's the worst time to pug. All the groups are out.

[Ghogiel]

Sug, on 25 January 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

Uhg that's the worst time to pug. All the groups are out.

Kinda yeah

[MischiefSC]

Ghogiel, on 25 January 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

Kinda yeah

No kinda about it. Pugging on the weekend evenings is like getting fed to a grinder. Not a bad time for 12mans though.

[lsp]

Ghogiel, on 25 January 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

Prime time Sat usually has some good players on.

I'm so ronely, all hyped up and no one is on in my units TS(in my regiment). Also, pugging right now isn't so bad. I've won three out of the four pugs I've dropped in. Only rolled by a premade once, and it wouldn't have been a roll if we had some teamwork. It's funny you know how little is required, and would drastically change the outcome of a match. Like calling out targets to focus fire for example...

Edited by lsp, 25 January 2014 - 11:08 PM.

[stjobe]

wanderer, on 25 January 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

Funny thing. I've noticed the MM will sometimes cloak premades.
[...]
They showed up in 3 different lances during the game to the opposition, only showing up "together" after the fight..

This is normal and part of the fog of war. You'll know the names of your enemies, but not their composition. Next time you drop, please notice how the enemy team is listed ASCII-betically (0-9, A-Z, a-z).

Only on the after-action screen will you get to see what the actual composition was.

[Ghogiel]

MischiefSC, on 25 January 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

No kinda about it. Pugging on the weekend evenings is like getting fed to a grinder. Not a bad time for 12mans though.

The chances are good that I will still perform in the top few of any game win or lose irrespective of being solo.

[Sug]

Ghogiel, on 26 January 2014 - 12:34 AM, said:

The chances are good that I will still perform in the top few of any game win or lose irrespective of being solo.

But since only winning or losing effects your Elo....




I'll just leave this here

http://mwomercs.com/...e/page__st__420

[A banana in the tailpipe]

KharnZor, on 25 January 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Shake it off OP. It wont always be like that.

Actually it has become the norm. The OP isn't alone in players deciding the game isn't fun with the current matchmaking.

[KharnZor]

lockwoodx, on 26 January 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:

Actually it has become the norm. The OP isn't alone in players deciding the game isn't fun with the current matchmaking.

Actually no. Op is just in that bad ELO zone and possibly at a skill wall. I'd recommend getting on to one of the many TS servers for a few drops just to get some advise and some experience .

[Levon K]

Welcome to the land of MWO, where matchmaker does it's best to balance the matches, and sometimes it works so "well" that you end up with a 50% W/L ratio.

Not sure if you remember, but before matchmaker was in place, a solo pugger was in a much worse spot. I think I was running close to 40% win rate. I've managed to climb over the 50% mark since matchmaker was introduced.

[Xtrekker]

wanderer, on 25 January 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

Funny thing. I've noticed the MM will sometimes cloak premades.

Take a premade I playing with today. They showed up as the same lance, 4 people, yay.

Well, I got em two games later- on the other side, confirmed they dropped as premade.

They showed up in 3 different lances during the game to the opposition, only showing up "together" after the fight..

As I recall it's always been this way, or at least as long as I can remember. If I see 4 people on the other team flying the same colors, I just assume they are in the same lance.

[Xtrekker]

I've been all over the place the last few days, PUGging of course. I don't even think it's Elo or PUG/premade. I have no idea what it is. Tonnage maybe? The last one of these pics we were down by 105 tons (plus a disco). Some wins were hard-fought I guess, but a lot of stomps too. I have nights were I'm the king of the world and others where I'm one of the first nooblets to die. Wish I knew, or had some kind of consistency. It's frustrating as hell.

[stjobe]

Xtrekker, on 26 January 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

I've been all over the place the last few days, PUGging of course. I don't even think it's Elo or PUG/premade. I have no idea what it is. Tonnage maybe? The last one of these pics we were down by 105 tons (plus a disco). Some wins were hard-fought I guess, but a lot of stomps too. I have nights were I'm the king of the world and others where I'm one of the first nooblets to die. Wish I knew, or had some kind of consistency. It's frustrating as hell.

It's the luck of the draw.

Even if you're the most consistent player ever, the other eleven on your team play a rather large part in the outcome of the game, as does the twelve on the other team - and *they* might be having an off day, or an off match, or be total newbies, or a double premade of 18-month veterans, or... Well I think you get what I'm saying.

You're 1/24th of the players on the field, and 1/12th of the players on your team.

Your performance is just a small part of what decides the outcome of a game, and sometimes that part is insignificant.

Hard to reconcile with our innate desire to be the hero, I know, but that's the cold, hard truth.

[MischiefSC]

Ghogiel, on 26 January 2014 - 12:34 AM, said:

The chances are good that I will still perform in the top few of any game win or lose irrespective of being solo.

Yes yes, your E-Peen is enormous and must be measured in boat-lengths.

Actually, to be fair, you are stupidly good at this game. All due props. However, you get paid more on a win than a loss.

Sug, on 26 January 2014 - 01:00 AM, said:

But since only winning or losing effects your Elo....




I'll just leave this here

http://mwomercs.com/...e/page__st__420

No, no let that thread die a quiet death.

It's important to remember though Sug that your Elo ranking isn't a 'reward'. Having a higher Elo isn't 'better'. The point of it is to try and keep everyones odds of winning as close to 50/50 as possible. Why? So that the cbills and xp you earn, the rewards for winning, are about the same. That everyone has a challenging but not impossible match-up as often as possible.

Sometimes in some games you're just shafted. Honestly, I think we try to blame 'my team was just bad' too often. Maybe your team rocked normally but was having an off night. My Elo, after several hundred drops in each, is way higher in my Victor 9S than it is in my Battlemaster 1G. If I drop in my Battlemaster I'm reducing my own odds of winning. Other players do this to.

They want to play their Dragon, just for kicks. Maybe they want to try a new build in a Quickdraw, vainly hoping to find one that isn't terrible. Maybe they were a sucker and dropped $80 on the Overlord package and desperately want to feel like Battlemasters are actually decent and they just need to find the right build and so keep flinging themselves into matches in them, sandbagging team after team after team.

So long as on average you're winning 50/50 or better the matchmaker is doing what it's supposed to do.

Keep a consistently challenging environment and prevent good players and good teams from constantly rolling average and poor players.

[Ghogiel]

Sug, on 26 January 2014 - 01:00 AM, said:

But since only winning or losing effects your Elo....




I'll just leave this here

http://mwomercs.com/...e/page__st__420

So you're point is that since I do well irrespective of being solo or in a premade my Elo rating doesn't suffer.

Yep.

MischiefSC, on 26 January 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Yes yes, your E-Peen is enormous and must be measured in boat-lengths.

Actually, to be fair, you are stupidly good at this game. All due props. However, you get paid more on a win than a loss.

So we are talking about cbills ?

Edited by Ghogiel, 26 January 2014 - 12:30 PM.

[wanderer]

stjobe, on 25 January 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

This is normal and part of the fog of war. You'll know the names of your enemies, but not their composition. Next time you drop, please notice how the enemy team is listed ASCII-betically (0-9, A-Z, a-z).

Only on the after-action screen will you get to see what the actual composition was.

Exactly, which means in many cases people don't even know what stomped them, only that a stomping happened.

Without the knowhow that people actually -are- premade-ing in pugstomping, it's invisible data to the public. Most times, the only reason I know a premade's there is they announce it- but likewise, I also know that many times, premades DON'T announce their presence in a match.

We need to be able to see this, so we can actually figure out whether it's premades that are hosing supposedly "balanced" matches by being there or not. Goodness knows I was seeing plentiful stompfests in which I was on the winning side while premading recently for a few, the likes of which were generally done with 0-3 losses on our side. At no time did we say "Hi, we're a premade" and were from mixed factions/lone wolves.

Went back to PUG mode. Yep, right back to the same stomp-or-be-stomped, without a clue in many cases as to why the fights were imbalanced, or else cases where one side had a massive force imbalance (ideal: lots of BLG+ weight assaults and Spider/Jenner/ECM Cicada backup). vs the other.

[stjobe]

Well, there is some ways you can glean at least some information out of your own team, because of how the matchmaker builds up lances:

Any groups in the team are placed in Alpha, Beta, Charlie in that order, and solo droppers make up the difference (some claim in Elo order, but there's no way of knowing, and I've seen no evidence of that - apart from the anecdotal evidence that I'm very seldom placed in Charlie. But that could equally well mean that my SSD loads the game faster than the others and we get placed in load order).

So if you get placed in Alpha lance as a PUG, you can be sure there's no four-man groups on your team.

[MischiefSC]

Ghogiel, on 26 January 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

So you're point is that since I do well irrespective of being solo or in a premade my Elo rating doesn't suffer.

Yep.


So we are talking about cbills ?

Yep, becaues Cbills and XP is how you get paid and rewarded. Elo and the matchmaker just try to keep the effort you have to put in to earn it the same with everyone else.

[wanderer]

stjobe, on 26 January 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Well, there is some ways you can glean at least some information out of your own team, because of how the matchmaker builds up lances:

Any groups in the team are placed in Alpha, Beta, Charlie in that order, and solo droppers make up the difference (some claim in Elo order, but there's no way of knowing, and I've seen no evidence of that - apart from the anecdotal evidence that I'm very seldom placed in Charlie. But that could equally well mean that my SSD loads the game faster than the others and we get placed in load order).

So if you get placed in Alpha lance as a PUG, you can be sure there's no four-man groups on your team.

Sure. But this still doesn't let one see what's premade or what's not. Heck, I get stuck in with 3-man premades often enough and most people wouldn't notice the difference, effectiveness-wise. You only get good data on premades if it's clear to both sides that one or more groups exists on either team, and that is currently impossible to determine reliably.