511 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

SI I am an Assault pilot cause I have slowed with age & I love heavy weapons crushing and shredding the enemy. I commend those light pilots who tear me to shreads and blast the ones who should be in heavier designs. I don't have a lot of faith in PGI to handle weight balancing well, Even if at one time they had a fair handle on it.

[SI The Joker]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

SI I am an Assault pilot cause I have slowed with age & I love heavy weapons crushing and shredding the enemy. I commend those light pilots who tear me to shreads and blast the ones who should be in heavier designs. I don't have a lot of faith in PGI to handle weight balancing well, Even if at one time they had a fair handle on it.

Nahh you've just gotten better isn't that what we're supposed to say when we get old?

I don't have alot of faith in things right now, either. I'm really hoping that PGI knocks it out of the park this year... but I have my doubts. Fingers crossed I guess.

But even with tonnage matching... hah... most folks want to pilot a big stompy robot... not a 35-55 ton striker. How that will work out with a matchmaking system... well... you know.

[Joseph Mallan]

SI The Joker, on 07 February 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

Nahh you've just gotten better isn't that what we're supposed to say when we get old?

I don't have alot of faith in things right now, either. I'm really hoping that PGI knocks it out of the park this year... but I have my doubts. Fingers crossed I guess.

But even with tonnage matching... hah... most folks want to pilot a big stompy robot... not a 35-55 ton striker. How that will work out with a matchmaking system... well... you know.

I thought it was old age and treachery?

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

I'm a PUG that joined a premade that still PUGs. I defy the pigeon hole of either side of the argument. An my stats show that PUG or Premade Elo seems to be keeping us fairly where we belong, depending on the weapons we chose and style we use.

Same here. I buck the meta by using energy boats
I PUG while in a unit and run in Premades in the evenings because I like the guys I play with on a regular basis and it's FUN, goofing, talking, and just goofing off with a crowd closer to my own age than my kids'
I just get tired of blanket statements talking about how premades are doing (insert derogatory statement here) and ruinging the game.
The thing is Mud actually has a few ideas I like, he just simply can't give up being a victim apparently to voice them without bashing premades

[Nick Makiaveli]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 February 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

Its not premades making the game bad but the idea that pugs are just fill for matches. Of course several on the wrecking crew want you to believe we think "premades are evil" but that is stupid like "guns are evil." Its the way some premades operate that is the problem in game and we pugs refer to them as stompers. While our mission is to learn and carry the fight their sole objective is to wipe out the other team as quickly as possible with minimal effort. Not saying that is a bed premise and in real combat that is the goal. Saying that in a game this approach may be fine when all parties are equal but in this case they are not and it becomes a slaughter for the sake of slaughter. Coming into a match knowing a number of other mechs are at a distinct disadvantage is not fair play by any stretch.
Either give us the tools to bring us up to level or split us up. Pretty simple concept.
Please dont buy into the "evil premade" bull that only used to distract and distort.

So what exactly should pre-mades do if not try to win the game as quickly as possible? I mean if we had a limited number of matches we could play, then yes I could see dragging it out, but once it's over I can launch again immediately (well once my teammates STFU about whatever it is they are nattering on about and ready up!! )

See the thing is, I play as hard as I can, I deal as much damage as I can etc etc, because I prefer to win, I have more fun when I try to get better, and if I hold back, I may find myself starring in a "I am Legend" remake. Which is it's own thrill, but a tad nerve wracking.

Also, Sand (or was it Road?) is absolutely right about LW being filler. The earliest dev comments were that Mercs would choose which planets to take for the Houses, that House players would obviously fight in those matches and that the sides would be topped off, if needs be, by LW players. Originally LW weren't going to get LPs, and it was meant for those that just want to fight and care nothing about Houses or merc units.

So right now, pretty much anyone who hasn't joined a outside unit is a LW and thus just filler. Basically working as intended. Once CW drops, hopefully that will settle down, and House players will get more connected etc. If not, then it's up to us to make it happen.

Sorry if you disagree, or think I am dismissing you, but I am a throwback to a time when people took care of themselves and didn't look to others to fix their problems. This is just a game, but I can't turn off what I believe in.

[Mudhutwarrior]

You miss the point. Its only a game. Many of us just want to have fun. Winning doesn't matter if the battle was epic.

Its never epic to get wiped or wipe out the other side in the shortest possible time. Frankly it's boring.

And I don't believe you are hell bent on winning anyways because the best players are in 12 mans. Those guys tell me your never there. So I tend to think your insecure and just want to keep your easy button as long as you can,

[Roadbeer]

Mudhutwarrior, on 07 February 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

You miss the point. Its only a game. Many of us just want to have fun. Winning doesn't matter if the battle was epic.

Its never epic to get wiped or wipe out the other side in the shortest possible time. Frankly it's boring.

And I don't believe you are hell bent on winning anyways because the best players are in 12 mans. Those guys tell me your never there. So I tend to think your insecure and just want to keep your easy button as long as you can,

Wow, martyr and ad hominem in one post.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Roadbeer, on 07 February 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

Wow, martyr and ad hominem in one post.

Sorry you guys are so insecure. Really I am.

[Gruinhardt]

Mudhutwarrior, on 07 February 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

You miss the point. Its only a game. Many of us just want to have fun. Winning doesn't matter if the battle was epic.

Its never epic to get wiped or wipe out the other side in the shortest possible time. Frankly it's boring.

And I don't believe you are hell bent on winning anyways because the best players are in 12 mans. Those guys tell me your never there. So I tend to think your insecure and just want to keep your easy button as long as you can,

Did I miss another "WE PUGS" meeting? I hardly ever drop in groups, most of matches are played as a PUG. But it seems no one invites me to the "WE PUGS". This is the place where you come up with snazzy names like stompers and discuss your "mission to learn and carry on the fight".

You do not represent the view of all PUGS.

Mudhutwarrior, on 07 February 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

You miss the point. Its only a game. Many of us just want to have fun.

You miss the point. From the beginning PGI has stated this is a team game. Their focus was on House Factions and Merc Corps. Now if someday the player numbers allow for a solo drop queue, great. But as far as I know, PGI has never presented this game as Lone Wolf, single player game.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 07 February 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

Gruinhardt, on 07 February 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

Did I miss another "WE PUGS" meeting? I hardly ever drop in groups, most of matches are played as a PUG. But it seems no one invites me to the "WE PUGS". This is the place where you come up with snazzy names like stompers and discuss your "mission to learn and carry on the fight".

You do not represent the view of all PUGS.

[Mudhutwarrior]

“Never argue with a fool, he might not know the difference.”

[Hellen Wheels]

Gruinhardt, on 07 February 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

PGI has never presented this game as Lone Wolf, single player game.

And yet it seems to me the overwhelming majority of people playing use a Lone Wolf tag. Guess they don't want to be easily identified as a group, even though it is a team game, after all.

Edited by Hellen Wheels, 08 February 2014 - 05:39 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Hellen Wheels, on 08 February 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

And yet it seems to me the overwhelming majority of people playing use a Lone Wolf tag. Guess they don't want to be easily identified as a group, even though it is a team game, after all.

To accomplish an effective plan such as factions you need committed players. Most people cant commit to such a thing needing to learn so much and be ready for team play. So in my view the majority here cannot commit and just want to log on and have fun as time allows.
As it is now those with the time and money to play a fixed schedule are the ones driving this "Team only" metric. They are forcing the majority to conform to their play-style and ideals. There is no reason why we cannot allow both to exist and if the solo/pug players are attracted to the game for what it offers there will always be enough to fill in those team matches and take a break from it as needed.
Better to have a big tent where all are welcome than beating the outliers up and forcing them to go elsewhere. The team only metric if fine but in application its beyond short sighted.

Build a solid base first. allow all play styles to be satisfied and then we can have it all or close to it. Its not people rejecting team play that's the problem. Its the team players forcing everyone into the same box.

Edited by Mudhutwarrior, 08 February 2014 - 05:50 AM.

[Peter2k]

Ahh yes a nice and lengthy discussion
With some pushing here and there

Actually I came to care less and less

The best matches we had as premades have not been supreme victorys, but hard fought battles, mechs slugging it out, last ones standing are nearly gone for

Or you watch a lone player having luck and skill and turning it around 3 against 1

What I'm rather looking forward to is when role warfare is introduced and houses fight against each other.
Will be interesting to see how this would change things up, cuz it will split the community some.
I can't say if I would ever realy switch to grind other houses, probably not over the "advantages" of what PGI announced.
I'm sure many won't either.
So I guess there will always be premades of each house battling it out against each other. Pugs are the fillers and intended to be so by PGI.
So in the end, for a Pug to be out of that filler role, u need to group up with someone.
However if PGI can actually do something right, then each side should have more or less same number of premades.(like it probably already is in most cases, I'm sure)

Also private matches against team mates or easy to organize tournaments in our house or against other houses, ensuring skilled well fought matches.
I think any of the tournaments we played in had some special rules, like max tonnage, or one mech of each weight class, no meta allowed.
Best times I had actually.


So in short:
Let's wait and see;
Tonnage limit
Houses fighting each other
Premades on both sides
And for the love of god some good balancing in skill and weight

And then all u have to do as someone playing solo, is doing it smart, complementing the premades with whatever they are doing, instead of doing something else entirely.
This game is gonna be focused on some kind of groups, be it houses, mercs, maybe clans in the future, solos are fillers, but good balanincing should make this fine.

On a side note, I'd be fine to have premades to be marked as such ingame, I'm sure MM puts premades against each other more often than not.
And then u can actually see if u got stomped by some premades, or just some good solo players, fighting fluidly and naturally together, because they had skill and situational awareness.

And I can't wait to hear every 12 year old yelling in VoIP (MWO ingame, whenever it's coming), how he did someone's mom, that he needs help against those 8 mechs he just run into alone, and probably so many new players shouting enemy contacts like on 3 fronts.

VoIP doesn't mean better organized , information can also be useless, overflowing, uncoordinated and distracting.
People still have to be willing to focus fire on target A, instead of running solo into a wall of enemy's.

[Peter2k]

U see it doesn't matter if u fight solo against premades, if they have VoIP and u don't, even tonnage to a certain degree.

If PGI can manage to balance skill of the pilots properly, than it won't matter as much as people are always making out to be.
Most times my mates and me are just having fun over comms, not so much tactics, that's what 12 mans is for.

[whiskey tango foxtrot]

PGI did / does intend for Lone Wolfs to be fill in and / or canon fodder (according to Paul) don't think that's changed. .... I guess we'll see how that works out....

[Mudhutwarrior]

whiskey tango foxtrot, on 08 February 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

PGI did / does intend for Lone Wolfs to be fill in and / or canon fodder (according to Paul) don't think that's changed. .... I guess we'll see how that works out....

Look at the result of their decision making over the past year and now 2.0. Six or eight clicks just to close the game.
Nerf warriors, Ghost heat, Etc. Looking at it as a whole not anyone past the true believers thinks this is working. They need a team of propagandists working overtime to quell the dissent. Check the forums regularly and see how much gets deleted or sent to k-town. Better indication of satisfaction than anything else.

[WhiteRabbit]

Peter2k, on 08 February 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

U see it doesn't matter if u fight solo against premades, if they have VoIP and u don't, even tonnage to a certain degree.

If PGI can manage to balance skill of the pilots properly, than it won't matter as much as people are always making out to be.
Most times my mates and me are just having fun over comms, not so much tactics, that's what 12 mans is for.

meh....if you have 2 teams of equal skill better communication (i.e. faster, more accurate) will most likely decide the game...moreso than tonnage, since the tonnage composition might be part of a certain tactic. (assuming both teams are roughly skill-balanced)

[whiskey tango foxtrot]

Mudhutwarrior, on 08 February 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

Look at the result of their decision making over the past year and now 2.0. Six or eight clicks just to close the game.
Nerf warriors, Ghost heat, Etc. Looking at it as a whole not anyone past the true believers thinks this is working. They need a team of propagandists working overtime to quell the dissent. Check the forums regularly and see how much gets deleted or sent to k-town. Better indication of satisfaction than anything else.

PGI's decisions over the past 2 years speak for themselves (I'm not happy with a lot of things) But where they will be really wrong is their thinking that Lone Wolfs will be cannon fodder......We are Lone Wolfs....We are not unorganized....We fight with whom and where we please....as I said , we'll see how it works out.

[Roadbeer]

So I'm forced to ask again, what do you envision the role of a Lone Wolf mercenary in the fights between the factions, if not to fill the ranks of established units when they are short a couple players?

IMO, MPBT 3025 had it right, everyone had to pick a faction, but every day on the Comstar scroll, you'd see something like, "House Davion offering a 15% bonus to new contracts" or something like that, where your daily pay would be given a modifier if you 'bought in" during that time and switched houses. Sure, that's gaming the pay, but that was kind of the point.