304 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

Mahws, on 29 January 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

1. FoV has no effect on how much of your potential aiming area is blocked by your cockpit.

Increasing your FOV can push you forward into your cockpit, closer to the window, which results in a different viewing aspet.

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2. The spot I'm aiming at is called down. Here's another set of shots on Alpine:

Pretty sure you could fit a whole team of Atlai in the amount of view that's blocked by that cockpit.

Don't be an ***. Again, I've never had a situation where I couldn't hit someone below me I needed to hit, or was 'surprised' by a hidden lance of Atlas's, but of course my FoV is 100, and I run with seismic, so there's a good chance I'd know they were there, PLUS, a whole team of Atlas's aren't going to be bothered to much by a single Jager. Focus fire side torso, the jager is PROBABLY dead. If not, focus on the other one, and he's now a walking pencil, either kill him, or leg him and leave him for desert.

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Obviously players with better set ups are going to have an advantage, a larger wide screen or multiple monitor set up will allow for larger fields of view. However it's also limited by the developers through cockpit windows and exterior geometry (e.g. Jagermech shoulders) from being too big of an advantage.

And this change doesn't affect the placement of Jager shoulders so THAT particular argument doesn't apply.

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Turning off the fog on night/heat vision with a tweak would make the game look nicer, improve performance, reduce eyestrain and provide 'greater overall joy', that doesn't mean that it doesn't provide an unfair and unnecessary advantage. There's a reason 3rd person view restricts your arm lock and gives away your position, being able to see things other players can't either puts players at a disadvantage for choosing to play normally or forces them to play in 3rd Person/Without Cockpit in order to be competitive.

Well, turning off fog on night/heat isn't something you can do via the USER.CFG, that I am aware of, so it's not relevant to the argument.

BUT, 3PV somehow doesn't have to suffer the ills of dirty cockpit windows, AND, it's optional. Unlike dirty cockpit windows.

Ultimately I saw a 5fps, 10% maybe, increase in performance without the cockpit, WHILE STATIONARY. That tells me something is probably wrong with either the engine, the overlay, or maybe the FPS meter embedded in the game... Either way, the more non-game play critical stuff you add to this game, the more you push the game out of playability for people with older less powerful systems.

Of all the MW/BT sims I've ever played this game has THE MOST obtrusive cockpit, EVER.

I'm quite happy that there's a way to get rid of it, and that, at least for now, PGI is allowing us to. I can only hope they maintain it as an option available to the players.

Just like playing in 3PV or not, is an option.

[Mahws]

FoV doesn't work like that. You're not getting 'pushed forward in your cockpit' your view is just narrowed. It doesn't effect what is and isn't obscured by the cockpit, pan your view around with free look and you'll be able to see exactly the same things.

I'm not sure exactly why you seem to think that 12 Atlases being able to quickly kill a single Jagermech has any bearing whatsoever on the discussion, so I'll skip over that. Seeing as the cockpit doesn't block radar the only way it would stop you from detecting the enemy is if they had ECM, regardless that's not the issue, the issue is that with the config tweak I can easily and accurately fire at other players directly below or above me (because I can actually seem them instead of taking shots at a red square overlayed over a cockpit) which gives me a clear advantage over another player who wouldn't be able to do so.

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And this change doesn't affect the placement of Jager shoulders so THAT particular argument doesn't apply.

Which would be a valid point if the Jagermech shoulders blocked vertical vision as well. Or for that matter if Jagermechs were the only mechs in the game. Seeing as neither of those are true I'm inclined to think that that particular argument does indeed apply.

As for performance, there are plenty of things you can do to improve performance that PGI won't let you do because they give an advantage, such as disabling trees and smoke effects. And both of those give a greater potential boost to performance whilst only giving 'situational' advantages to the player.

Playing in 3PV is an option because they deliberately handicapped people playing in 3PV (arm lock, drone that gives away your position) in order to make it fair to both players. If they do the same for vanishing cockpits then I'd be happy to have them in game.

You're welcome to enjoy it, and for your sake I hope they find a way to make it a fair option in the game so you can continue to do so. But as far as I'm concerned it's no different than turning off trees or smoke with .cfg tweaks and should be restricted just like they are.

[Noesis]

Sad thread is sad.

[MustrumRidcully]

Rushin Roulette, on 29 January 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

Maybe everyone should just relax and sit back... PGI only added a really well known sci-fi technology, but only got the terminology a little mixed up. Its not Cockpit glass that was added but a pair of Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses for the Neurohelmet.

But that's Lostech and is only reintroduced in 3077. See the TRO 3077, p25, paragraph 4. Only a few Star League units could still have had this, and we can't all be driving rare Star League mechs!

[Rushin Roulette]

Noesis, on 30 January 2014 - 02:21 AM, said:

Sad thread is sad.

[Dean Ackles Winchester]

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Don't be an ***.

Dunno; to me an *** is a person who argues a point just to argue it and will never conceed any point that makes him look bad.

And my FoV is default.

[Dimento Graven]

Mahws, on 29 January 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

FoV doesn't work like that. You're not getting 'pushed forward in your cockpit' your view is just narrowed. It doesn't effect what is and isn't obscured by the cockpit, pan your view around with free look and you'll be able to see exactly the same things.

The point is this, you can reduce the amount of cockpit that obscures your vision just using FoV. "Narrows" is not the word I would use. Going from a 75 degree angle to 100 seemed to broaden it for me, and again, eliminated more of that functionless cockpit that I don't need to see.

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I'm not sure exactly why you seem to think that 12 Atlases being able to quickly kill a single Jagermech has any bearing whatsoever on the discussion, so I'll skip over that. Seeing as the cockpit doesn't block radar the only way it would stop you from detecting the enemy is if they had ECM, regardless that's not the issue, the issue is that with the config tweak I can easily and accurately fire at other players directly below or above me (because I can actually seem them instead of taking shots at a red square overlayed over a cockpit) which gives me a clear advantage over another player who wouldn't be able to do so.

I guess I'm not certain why a Jager being able to see down is so "game breaking" myself. Your hysteria on this seems excessive. And, by the way, ECM doesn't affect seismic, so...

Next, if the players below you have the same setting, if they so choose, they can easily fire back up at you, though, if it's Jagers below you, chances are they won't need it anyway, given the upward range the Jager can fire.

Of course this is also assuming that the cockpit is SO IMPORTANT it won't 'disappear' from view the moment you press Zoom, which on every mech I've tested, it pretty much does.

Given that it vanishes from direct view (barring the absolutely useless 'free view'), in 2/3's of thenon-3PV viewing modes, I'm guessing the cockpit ain't that important for game play.

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Which would be a valid point if the Jagermech shoulders blocked vertical vision as well. Or for that matter if Jagermechs were the only mechs in the game. Seeing as neither of those are true I'm inclined to think that that particular argument does indeed apply.

Well then, the obvious solution is so obvious. If you're SO worried that there will now be wandering hordes of cockpitless Jagers wandering the game shooting down at defenseless mechs, all PGI has to do is restrict the downward angle that the Jager can aim.

What is the frickin' point of allowing the Jager to aim so high and so low if where your guns aim is blocked by your own cockpit? THAT is stupid.

More so by someone believing it's some sort of 'balance' issue.

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As for performance, there are plenty of things you can do to improve performance that PGI won't let you do because they give an advantage, such as disabling trees and smoke effects. And both of those give a greater potential boost to performance whilst only giving 'situational' advantages to the player.

Yes, but this only required 14 characters in the USER.CFG, so I'm more apt to do it. It requires ZERO technical knowledge and only the ability to 'type'.

It's 'low hanging fruit'.

Disabling trees and smoke effects would seem to me to be MORE of game breaking issue as the trees and smoke provide cover, and maps like Forest Colony would become absolute easy pickins for us snipers without the trees providing some obscuring affect on our targets.

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Playing in 3PV is an option because they deliberately handicapped people playing in 3PV (arm lock, drone that gives away your position) in order to make it fair to both players. If they do the same for vanishing cockpits then I'd be happy to have them in game.

If you believe that was 'deliberate, well... Whatever, and it was "SO FAIR" that they disabled the mode completely in the 12 man queue. Yeah, THAT sure was a fair view mode...

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You're welcome to enjoy it, and for your sake I hope they find a way to make it a fair option in the game so you can continue to do so. But as far as I'm concerned it's no different than turning off trees or smoke with .cfg tweaks and should be restricted just like they are.

From what I understand, PGI has disabled the ability to remove trees using the USER.CFG, so you don't have to worry there. As far as smoke, I've no idea on that at all, I think its lessened considerably if you set your graphics settings to low, so obviously it's not that important, also given the fact that if you press 'H' on certain maps, you can see through it...

[Dimento Graven]

Dean Ackles Winchester, on 30 January 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

Dunno; to me an *** is a person who argues a point just to argue it and will never conceed any point that makes him look bad.

And my FoV is default.

I conceded that its an extremely limited benefit, it's no where near game breaking though. He wants to rile up a hysteria about something that's so limited and so situational and so questionable, that tends to make me want to apply that label.

I'd also apply it to people who latch on to a new feature obsessively like it's the end-all-be-all of game features, something that NO ONE, not even them, had ever asked for, and want to force people to have to endure decreased performance and potential physical impairment JUST to satisfy their own 'aesthetic'.

But hey, different strokes for different folks.

[Noesis]

Dimento Graven, on 30 January 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

But hey, different strokes for different folks.

Except game rules.

[Dimento Graven]

Noesis, on 30 January 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Except game rules.

I'm not sure what game rules you're referring to, but, on the subject of rules.

This is supposed to be a BattleTech/MechWarrior sim right?

Those of us who grew up playing the game dreamed of the day that we'd, at the very least, be able to play our computers games and have them as close to the true 'MechWarrior experience as described in the rule books, TRO's, packs, and especially the novels.

What did we NOT have in all that? No cockpit glass, no mention of, "...and the warrior was killed because he could not see past the bottom of his cockpit/shoulder/physical impediment..."

What we DID have were descriptions of 360 degree views, magnetic anomaly detection and all the like. Something common to ALL mechs, even those that were family heirlooms, handed down for generations. Now granted the technology in use for this game doesn't really support 360 degree viewing, BUT, at least it does support the ability to provide as unobstructed a view as possible, and for those of us with 3 monitors, that includes a potential of a 179 degree view of the battlefield, maximum.

You want to have a cockpit to impress the game reviewers and the new players, fine. The rest of us would like to 'graduate' up to a more 'true to canon' experience, and as anyone and everyone capable of putting 14 characters into a frickin' text file, it's not something is limited to a select few. Anyone and everyone can do this, if they so chose.

[Rhaythe]

Dimento Graven, on 30 January 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

You want to have a cockpit to impress the game reviewers and the new players, fine. The rest of us would like to 'graduate' up to a more 'true to canon' experience, and as anyone and everyone capable of putting 14 characters into a frickin' text file, it's not something is limited to a select few. Anyone and everyone can do this, if they so chose.

Mechwarrior games have nearly always had a cockpit view. I disagree that a cockpit-less view of the world is "true canon" and a "graduation" in gameplay, or that having a desire to see the cockpit makes me less of a player. But that's my worthless two cents.

Edited by Rhaythe, 30 January 2014 - 07:08 AM.

[Noesis]

Roll on the 4th. Cheaters never win, even those in denial.

[Shamous13]

Noesis, on 30 January 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

Roll on the 4th. Cheaters never win, even those in denial.

where did you get this info?

[Noesis]

Shamous13, on 30 January 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

where did you get this info?

What info? I'm "hoping" PGI simply patch it out on the 4th as commented above.

It would mean that GMs would have less need to police people trying to use "visually aided settings" for advantage by tweaking game files.

Something already stated not to be used by Moderation.

Edited by Noesis, 30 January 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[Shamous13]

Noesis, on 30 January 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

What info? I'm "hoping" PGI simply patch it out on the 4th as commented above.

It would mean that GMs would have less need to police people trying to use "visually aided settings" for advantage by tweaking game files.

Something already stated not to be used by Moderation.

Kyle Polulak, on 29 January 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

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Can we use this USER.CFG change to remove the cockpit?

Yes, it's in user.cfg afterall.

Found here. so their is conflicting information. but this quote/information was made after the ones that you mentioned (timeline wise). so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Edit: I assumed that you had proof and that you weren't making an assumption/hoping. because you didn't state that in the previous post.

Edited by Shamous13, 30 January 2014 - 08:26 AM.

[Corbon Zackery]

I and others have know about these configuration issues since closed beta. All I can say is there are other modifications that are known.

Why am I so vague about this.

I received a private message a while back instructing me that while I have done nothing wrong. We should not discuses or promote these modifications or cheats. So the integrity of the game can be maintained that these issues would be fully investigated.

Now its 1/30/2014, and these modifications are still happening on a regular bases. Proving that people are still rampantly abusing the ability to modify open configuration files.

Thanks

[Noesis]

Shamous13, on 30 January 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Found here. so their is conflicting information. but this quote/information was made after the ones that you mentioned (timeline wise). so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Edit: I assumed that you had proof and that you weren't making an assumption/hoping. because you didn't state that in the previous post.

Eh? My comment was made recently today other quotes earlier?

Including: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3110483

I can see how you could miss read the above short statement however and extrapolate your own conclusion to it however so no biggie. But maybe if you read threads in their presented order and in their entirety this would help to eliminate these kinds of interpretations?

Edited by Noesis, 30 January 2014 - 08:40 AM.

[Khobai]

Removing the cockpit/glass obviously gives you an advantage or thered be no reason to do it in the first place. So anyone claiming it doesnt give you an advantage is an {Dezgra}.

But the real issue is whether or not its considered cheating. PGI has said its not cheating, so its not cheating. You may not agree with it, but ultimately its PGI that decides the rules. Simple as that.

So for the time being it seems modifying your .cfg file is allowed.

[Noesis]

Khobai, on 30 January 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

So for the time being it seems modifying your .cfg file is allowed.

Except Moderation gave a "specific ruling" on this issue. Which as yet has not been overturned.

[RG Notch]

Noesis, on 30 January 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

What info? I'm "hoping" PGI simply patch it out on the 4th as commented above.

It would mean that GMs would have less need to police people trying to use "visually aided settings" for advantage by tweaking game files.

Something already stated not to be used by Moderation.

Nothing has to be moderated as it is legal to do. Citation in this very thread. And PGI trumps IGP so nothing needs fixing.