304 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

Sandpit, on 27 January 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Translation

If something I don't like gets added to the game I should be allowed to cheat

So... Are all the people doing THIS cheating:

http://mwomercs.com/...round-4k-video/

Not everyone has access to GPU's capable of this, or the number of monitors to make it happen. It would certainly provide them a tremendous advantage having a near 180 degree view of the battlefield.

Unlike say, adding a single line to a USER.CFG, to eliminate NON-FUNCTIONAL OBSTRUCTIONS, which anyone and everyone is capable of doing via NOTEPAD.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 27 January 2014 - 11:37 AM.

[Sandpit]

Dimento Graven, on 27 January 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

So... Are all the people doing THIS cheating:

http://mwomercs.com/...round-4k-video/

Not everyone has access to GPU's capable of this, or the number of monitors to make it happen. It would certainly provide them a tremendous advantage having a near 180 degree view of the battlefield.

Unlike say, adding a single line to a USER.CFG, to eliminate NON-FUNCTIONAL OBSTRUCTIONS, which anyone and everyone is capable of doing via NOTEPAD.

That's not for me to decide. My opinion on the matter isn't relevant. When the GMs say "You can't do this" that means it's cheating if you do it anyhow and you can suffer the consequences. Simpy stated if the GMs say stop and a player doesn't, they deserve what they get.

[Dimento Graven]

At the time the GM made the statement, all he had to go on was the incredibly uninformed assumptions of how it was done by the OP, who from what I read, seemed to make insinuations that I modified the graphics files/skins of the game.

I did not.

I made a change I was told about on a Comstar TS server, after a fairly significant rant having been unexpectedly blinded in TD by the cockpit glass. Some 'elite competitive' player took pity on me and poked me the line to add to the USER.CFG. Apparently this has been known and used since closed beta.

Anyway, the answer might change with more information on how its done.

Otherwise, PGI better go back and eliminate all the USER.CFG threads they have in the forums, and disable its functionality, though I would guess that that will have stronger repercussions than anything else they've done to date, up to and including breaking the promises of no-3PV and no-quick flush for heat...

[Ngamok]

FupDup, on 27 January 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

Real, Real, Real Real Real Real Real Real Translation...ah I give up.

Anyways, the realism argument doesn't work very well with Battletech. This is the IP where shooting an Atlas in the hand can destroy his entire arm. It's the IP where giant robots are so tall for their mass, that the Atlas in MWO could actually float on water how low its density is! (At least, I've heard rumors about it). This is the IP where a Gauss Rifle, powered by massive electromagnets at enormous levels of energy, generates nearly no heat at all. This is the IP where, well, we use giant robots instead of tanks and other ground vehicles (which have more concentrated armor, plus a lower profile, and can be mass produced easier). This is the IP where most of the Autocannon calibers available (2/5/10/20) are dramatically heavier than their real-life equivalents and with a lot less range. This is the IP where 800 meters is considered "long range" whereas in real life your mech would be instagibbed from miles away by modern technology. The list goes on.

So you gave real world examples instead of giving examples of where the developers want to make you feel immersed inside the cockpit of a mech and giving you a cockpit like area to look around in. I guess instead of me saying "The developers want to make a game feel realistic" instead I should have added cockpit in there to avoid your useless come back.

Like I said, all it is to me is people using RivaTuner to get rid of the extras on their screen like so they can see people trying to hide. Instead, they see people in plain view. Do I understand that some people have bad systems? Sure. But it doesn't stop with them, it spreads to people who can run the game on ultra but don't to cut out the clutter or in this case, get rid of the cockpit.

[FupDup]

Ngamok, on 27 January 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

So you gave real world examples instead of giving examples of where the developers want to make you feel immersed inside the cockpit of a mech and giving you a cockpit like area to look around in. I guess instead of me saying "The developers want to make a game feel realistic" instead I should have added cockpit in there to avoid your useless come back.

We already had a cockpit-like area to look around in, hold the CTRL key for freelook mode and you can look at all the buttons and monitors and stuff around your character. You can even see him move the joystick when you perform certain actions, or use zoom to get a close-up of the Urbanmech bobblehead on your dashboard.

The glass doesn't really make it feel like a cockpit, it just trolls my eyes. I'm still a nerd sitting at home with a mouse and keyboard, controlling an imaginary robot over the internet.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 27 January 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

We already had a cockpit-like area to look around in, hold the CTRL key for freelook mode and you can look at all the buttons and monitors and stuff around your character. You can even see him move the joystick when you perform certain actions, or use zoom to get a close-up of the Urbanmech bobblehead on your dashboard.

The glass doesn't really make it feel like a cockpit, it just trolls my eyes. I'm still a nerd sitting at home with a mouse and keyboard, controlling an imaginary robot over the internet.

Shut Up!

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 27 January 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

We already had a cockpit-like area to look around in, hold the CTRL key for freelook mode and you can look at all the buttons and monitors and stuff around your character. You can even see him move the joystick when you perform certain actions, or use zoom to get a close-up of the Urbanmech bobblehead on your dashboard.

The glass doesn't really make it feel like a cockpit, it just trolls my eyes. I'm still a nerd sitting at home with a mouse and keyboard, controlling an imaginary robot over the internet.

Personally, I'm expecting a module for "cleaner cockpit glass", all for the nominal price of 15k GXP and 6m C-bills. At this point, it would seem like a classic PGI solution.

[Ngamok]

FupDup, on 27 January 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

We already had a cockpit-like area to look around in, hold the CTRL key for freelook mode and you can look at all the buttons and monitors and stuff around your character. You can even see him move the joystick when you perform certain actions, or use zoom to get a close-up of the Urbanmech bobblehead on your dashboard.

The glass doesn't really make it feel like a cockpit, it just trolls my eyes. I'm still a nerd sitting at home with a mouse and keyboard, controlling an imaginary robot over the internet.

All I hear is that you want to do or do the same thing to get rid of all the extras then. Or are defending people who do.

[Dimento Graven]

Ultimately, I am 100% certain what this comes down to is somebody's artistic aesthetics at PGI.

They believe they are creating the 'Second Coding of Christ' in what they do, and EVERYTHING they kludge into the game is absolute.

Unfortunately there's a small number of very vehemently loud people that have bought into this.

Ultimately, the vast majority of us players are not stupid and don't need cockpit glass to let us know we're piloting an imaginary robot, and if the only means we have at our disposal is to make a single change to USER.CFG, that 'unfortunately' also eliminates the mostly non-functional cockpit... Well, it's a small price to pay, honestly, to not end up with a migraine after an hour of play.

I can't believe PGI isn't concerned about causing unnecessary eyestrain, motion sickness, and/or migraines in their player base...

[Ngamok]

Deathlike, on 27 January 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Personally, I'm expecting a module for "cleaner cockpit glass", all for the nominal price of 15k GXP and 6m C-bills. At this point, it would seem like a classic PGI solution.

TBH I don't even notice the cockpit glass when I am in battle. I see it when I am running at the start of the match after that it phases out for me.

[Dimento Graven]

Ngamok, on 27 January 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

All I hear is that you want to do or do the same thing to get rid of all the extras then. Or are defending people who do.

Here's the thing though, EVEN THROUGH YOUR OWN USAGE OF THE WORD 'extras', IT IMPLIES 'UNNECESSARY'.

If it's unnecessary, I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about.

[Deathlike]

Ngamok, on 27 January 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

TBH I don't even notice the cockpit glass when I am in battle. I see it when I am running at the start of the match after that it phases out for me.

I don't either, but since it's kinda hard to miss it. It's not that cool, and not the best use of resources. If I had it my way, I'd remove/disable it, but IMO, it needs some actual refinements (like, movement penalties, because, pebbles of steel). As is, it doesn't do much for me outside of hindering my vision a bit.

[Prezimonto]

Deathlike, on 27 January 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Last I checked, it was heavily requested for an in-game slider (aka sanctioned).

Of course, that hasn't been added yet (let alone in the UI 2.0 test)... like many requested things (AMS/TAG toggle for instance).

They have lots of tools to handle this. They could go limit the values that the fov adjustments in the .cfg will accept. They could put a slider in the game. They could give you an option to pay a guy 5k before every match to high grade polish and anti-glare coat the glass. They could add in effects like automatic tinting when hit by a laser (adding in utility to lasers... aim for the head... blind your opponent for a second or two) but clean the glass up naturally for free.

Lots of things could be done... will they? I dunno, it's the art department to maybe within 6 months. If it's a coded solution maybe next year some time.

[Ngamok]

Dimento Graven, on 27 January 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Here's the thing though, EVEN THROUGH YOUR OWN USAGE OF THE WORD 'extras', IT IMPLIES 'UNNECESSARY'.

If it's unnecessary, I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about.

Because it is INTENDED to be seen by the developers otherwise Destined wouldn't have said anything about it. Otherwise by your admission all you need is the paperdoll window, the target window, the weapon group window, and radar for just about any game. Why would FPS shooters even put in the arms and the gun in their game. All you need is a crosshair.

[Ngamok]

So all you people who defend this, this is what you want:

http://cloud.steampo...9C55B3CBAB90B3/

Let's get rid of everything but the 4 windows so people can see the entire part of their screen unobstructed. Because why even bother making a cockpit then if it is intended to be removed. As Deathlike said:

"It's not that cool, and not the best use of resources."

If people will just go ahead and remove it. So why bother to add one.

[Deathlike]

Prezimonto, on 27 January 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

They have lots of tools to handle this. They could go limit the values that the fov adjustments in the .cfg will accept. They could put a slider in the game. They could give you an option to pay a guy 5k before every match to high grade polish and anti-glare coat the glass. They could add in effects like automatic tinting when hit by a laser (adding in utility to lasers... aim for the head... blind your opponent for a second or two) but clean the glass up naturally for free.

Lots of things could be done... will they? I dunno, it's the art department to maybe within 6 months. If it's a coded solution maybe next year some time.

Well, that's on PGI time™. What have I said about good ideas?

Ngamok, on 27 January 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

Because it is INTENDED to be seen by the developers otherwise Destined wouldn't have said anything about it. Otherwise by your admission all you need is the paperdoll window, the target window, the weapon group window, and radar for just about any game. Why would FPS shooters even put in the arms and the gun in their game. All you need is a crosshair.

TBH, an HTAL output would be much more greatly appreciated than the paperdoll, but I dunno... it seems complicated for unknown reasons.

[Dimento Graven]

Ngamok, on 27 January 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

Because it is INTENDED to be seen by the developers otherwise Destined wouldn't have said anything about it. Otherwise by your admission all you need is the paperdoll window, the target window, the weapon group window, and radar for just about any game. Why would FPS shooters even put in the arms and the gun in their game. All you need is a crosshair.

I've often asked myself that too, why bother? Am I somehow forgetting that I'm piloting a giant robot, or a pretend soldier running through a field carrying an M16, or a stealthy criminal with a bow.

Usually I don't, if I do forget it's after some extreme heavy drinking.

But above it all, you're absolutely right, ALL WE NEED to function in this game is the HUD. EVERYTHING ELSE is extra unnecessary, NON-FUNCTIONAL pixels and polygons my GPU has to deal with, that while may increase the 'ambience' of the battle, don't do jack to the function of the game, nor my actual enjoyment.

It can be boiled down this way: It's neat the first 100 times, after that, can we PLEASE get rid of it so I can focus on what is actually important?

Ngamok, on 27 January 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

So all you people who defend this, this is what you want:

http://cloud.steampo...9C55B3CBAB90B3/

Let's get rid of everything but the 4 windows so people can see the entire part of their screen unobstructed. Because why even bother making a cockpit then if it is intended to be removed. As Deathlike said:

"It's not that cool, and not the best use of resources."

If people will just go ahead and remove it. So why bother to add one.

Yep, that's pretty much how I played even before adding the one USER.CFG setting to get rid of cockpit glass. THAT is a simple FOV change, also done via the USER.CFG. I don't need to see my f'ing arms, or the non-functional panels, or the do-nothing buttons, or the unchanging readouts.

They do nothing, why should I have to care about their existence?

[Deathlike]

Ngamok, on 27 January 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

So all you people who defend this, this is what you want:

http://cloud.steampo...9C55B3CBAB90B3/

Let's get rid of everything but the 4 windows so people can see the entire part of their screen unobstructed. Because why even bother making a cockpit then if it is intended to be removed. As Deathlike said:

"It's not that cool, and not the best use of resources."

I also did say, it should be refined. Of course... I might as well have not said it.

Quote

If people will just go ahead and remove it. So why bother to add one.

I think the only cockpit that people would still have a problem with is the Locust Phoenix variant over the regular one. I guess that discussion was forgotten.

The thing is, it would be better if feedback on the stuff was actually the goal of an actual public test (aka, not in the 2 2-hour blocks). The focus in the test was UI 2.0, so not a lot of stuff regarding the glass was reported/mentioned. Had PGI done something like change the look and asked for feedback every week or two weeks, BEFORE putting into the masses, you would have gotten universally better feedback than you'd get now. Sometimes these things takes iterations to become more useful... so the simple fact that this wasn't tested publicly more is a testament to the idea of "I know what's best for this game" instead of "let's see what's best for everyone involved".

Again... it could have been better in the first place (I'm not sure how, but it didn't impress me).

Edit - needed to get this in:
There was only one negative thing about the older cockpit glass, to my knowledge. It was needlessly foggy if there were glass panels on the sides of the cockpit. It was made even worse/visible when filters like Night Vision or Thermal was used. So, that was the only real negative thing I had with the glass prior to this change.

You see, the details matter, and the devil is in the details.

Edited by Deathlike, 27 January 2014 - 12:42 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I don't think I could possibly care less about this.

None of it matters. Wins and losses don't matter.

KDR doesn't matter.

Maybe once CW comes into play 6 months down the road (lol?), I'll care...but now? Not at all.

[Ngamok]

Well, I'll just leave this here again then:

Hello everyone,

Just to make the point, any modifications made to the game files in order to give the player a significant advantage is prohibited. We are aware of the "No Cockpit Glass" mod and are actively investigating it. Don't use it.

I've left the thread intact so you are aware of what I am referring to.

Cheers!
Destined