304 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Sandpit, on 29 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Point being, the OP is a violation of the rules

No, what the two posters above are trying to tell you is that the "don't use this" was later rescinded to "it's in user.cfg after all" - so the OP is NOT in violation of the rules.

[RG Notch]

stjobe, on 29 January 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

No, what the two posters above are trying to tell you is that the "don't use this" was later rescinded to "it's in user.cfg after all" - so the OP is NOT in violation of the rules.

And yet the conflicting post isn't fixed to show the new info, typical IGP/PGI communication, doubling down on the confusion and allowing confusion and pointless back and forth to fester. In other words, business as usual.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

RG Notch, on 29 January 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

And yet the conflicting post isn't fixed to show the new info, typical IGP/PGI communication, doubling down on the confusion and allowing confusion and pointless back and forth to fester. In other words, business as usual.

Yeah I was trying very hard to convince Egomane that they need to stop having forum admin's reply to these kinds of posts. Because this is what happens.

PGI needs to handle PGI's business. The publisher needs to stay away from it.

[zolop]

If we need to edit our game to be competitive, using 3rd party macros, ui config changes, PGI needs to step in and lock this down. I have never played a multiplayer PvP game where people are allowed to user config / 3rd party macros and it been balanced, not in my 25+ years of gaming from consoles (from first nintendo system) to PCs (MS-Dos6 and from processors that were mmx and 386x).

I will never understand PGI, they allow users to edit game UI file (that let users remove nearly all of the front of the cockpit), use 3rd party macros and then when they try to add some immersion using cockpit they let people bypass the cockpit front nearly completely. So most of that work into development for cockpit is now totally wasted, good job PGI!

Edited by zolop, 29 January 2014 - 11:08 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

I believe the confusion was in what the original forum moderator thought was going on.

Historically, again, PGI has been for allowing players modify the USER.CFG, re:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1348473

Nothing any PGI rep has ever stated, has said the opposite.

[Rhaythe]

I get the strong feeling that this will become a complete non-issue in a couple patches.

[Dimento Graven]

zolop, on 29 January 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

If we need to edit our game to be competitive, using 3rd party macros, ui config changes, PGI needs to step in and lock this down. I have never played a multiplayer PvP game where people are allowed to user config and it been balanced, not in my 25+ years of gaming from consoles (from first nintendo system) to PCs (MS-Dos6 and from processors that were mmx and 386x).

I will never understand PGI, they allow users to edit game UI file (that let users remove nearly all of the cockpit), use 3rd party macros and then when they try to add some immersion using cockpit they let people bypass the cockpit nearly completely. So all that work into developement for cockpit is now totally wasted, good job PGI!

Again, objectively and realistically, without defaulting to knee jerk reactions, this particular change is NOT a competitive 'enhancement'. People who stubbornly hold on to that view point must be looking for more excuses to lose.

All this does is make the game THAT MUCH MORE pleasurable to see. The areas revealed by removing the cockpit aren't "targetable" areas on most 'mechs anyway, and the few that 'might' be able to target at those extreme angles will need to be EXTREMELY CLOSE before they can anyway (as more distance between you and your target LOWERS your angle of fire), so close that in fact, the 'advantage' is negated by a "how could you miss at that close anyway"...

For those of you that have latched onto cockpit glass as the 'Second Coding of Christ' I'm sorry that this is such a heresy for you, but quite honestly, you haven't had THAT MUCH time to experience cockpit glass, it's LESS than 9 days old now, isn't it?

Rhaythe, on 29 January 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

I get the strong feeling that this will become a complete non-issue in a couple patches.

That's not an unreasonable assumption. "PGI doesn't care about this now because they could be in the process of making sure it won't work come 2/4."

It would be a sad, sad thing to have happen, but given the sequence of events with film grain, it's NOT without precedent.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 29 January 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[zolop]

Dimento Graven, on 29 January 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Again, objectively and realistically, without defaulting to knee jerk reactions, this particular change is NOT a competitive 'enhancement'. People who stubbornly hold on to that view point must be looking for more excuses to lose.

All this does is make the game THAT MUCH MORE pleasurable to see. The areas revealed by removing the cockpit aren't "targetable" areas on most 'mechs anyway, and the few that 'might' be able to target at those extreme angles will need to be EXTREMELY CLOSE before they can anyway (as more distance between you and your target LOWERS your angle of fire), so close that in fact, the 'advantage' is negated by a "how could you miss at that close anyway"...

For those of you that have latched onto cockpit glass as the 'Second Coding of Christ' I'm sorry that this is such a heresy for you, but quite honestly, you haven't had THAT MUCH time to experience cockpit glass, it's LESS than 9 days old now, isn't it?

The problem still herein is having each player now modify his game files to remain competitive to accumulate cbills in a matches. As far as I know this is not a gameplay feature, "Edit you files to see better" so why as a player do I have to edit now my UI to remain competitive to gain CBills at the same rate of other players? Have you tried playing the the Pheopnix locust, because that is a clear advantage if I can get rid of the front part of my cockpit...or any similar mech.

Edited by zolop, 29 January 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Just to add some info to the debate, here's some testing I did comparing performance with and without cockpit:

With Cockpit -


Without Cockpit -


This test was done with a Cicada-3M.

I saw better performance in the testing ground, and it was much nicer to look at.

zolop, on 29 January 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

The problem still herein is having each player now modify his game filesUSER.CFG to remain competitive to accumulate cbills in a matches.

Corrected.

zolop said:

Have you tried playing the the Pheopnix locust, because that is a clear advantage if I can get rid of the front part of my cockpit...or any similar mech.

Oh ye, of little faith, YES I HAVE!

Edited by Dimento Graven, 29 January 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Dimento Graven, on 29 January 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

It would be a sad, sad thing to have happen, but given the sequence of events with film grain, it's NOT without precedent.

Maybe. Or maybe it'll spur them to build an option in where this is a supported and legitimate method of playing the game. It's certainly not a far cry from third-person perspective. If they determine that it truly doesn't offer a competitive advantage and are willing to put a button in the options menu that will enable/disable this view (or bind it to F4 to toggle through it), then so much the better.

On the other hand, if they determine it is offering a competitive advantage and remove it, then all questions as to this being "cheating" are easily answered.

Either way, I'm of the opinion that this will be resolved one way or the other quite soon.

[zolop]

I guess then I should be editing my UI to have a much significant more advantage then. Thank for the videos showing with and without cockpit glass Dimento.

Really wish they kept ques between simulation and arcade seperate :/

Edited by zolop, 29 January 2014 - 11:24 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Rhaythe, on 29 January 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Maybe. Or maybe it'll spur them to build an option in where this is a supported and legitimate method of playing the game. It's certainly not a far cry from third-person perspective. If they determine that it truly doesn't offer a competitive advantage and are willing to put a button in the options menu that will enable/disable this view (or bind it to F4 to toggle through it), then so much the better.

On the other hand, if they determine it is offering a competitive advantage and remove it, then all questions as to this being "cheating" are easily answered.

Either way, I'm of the opinion that this will be resolved one way or the other quite soon.

Tru dat! Word, and fist bump.

[Alexandrix]

Man...that whole "design pillar" about a game where "you are the pilot of a mech" "inside the cockpit" has really taken a beating the past year hasn't it? LOL

[Shamous13]

i think the biggest thing here is the fps gains making the game playable by more low end computers allowing the community to grow even more, or bringing back people that have left due to running with 15-20 fps, a lot of people don't have $300 to drop on the latest and greatest hardware let alone $1000+. I would be interested in seeing what results others get. (press f9 to see your fps)

[Dimento Graven]

zolop, on 29 January 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

I guess then I should be editing my UI to have a much significant more advantage then. Thank for the videos showing with and without cockpit glass Dimento.

Really wish they kept ques between simulation and arcade seperate :/

Well, you could go to YouTube and view ALL my videos, the ones prior to my making this change, and the few afterwards, and you're not going to a significant super increase in kills.

I readily admit to NOT being the best MechWarrior out there, HOWEVER, I didn't suddenly become 'super soldier' with my cockpit removed, it didn't increase my accuracy one iota, and I wasn't able to see through buildings, terrain, or other solid objects, NOR was I able to survive, dodge, or otherwise mitigate ANY damage that was directed towards me.

IF YOU PREFER to look at your battle through a smudgy porthole, you can absolutely continue to play with the cockpit enabled, however, if you'd like the environment to be nearly as entertaining as the action, try it without...

[Void Angel]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 January 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Was this cheating 6 months ago? We have been able to adjust our FoV for months. Or was it just months ago?

Sandpit, on 27 January 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

Dunno, don't know what the status on adjusting FoV is.

FupDup, on 27 January 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

I'm also not sure if this workaround qualifies as "cheating" seeing how it's just an FoV adjustment (which have been legal for quite some time).

When I was a lad, I learned the hard way to read all the rules of a game myself, rather than letting people "teach" me the game - for some reason, people have a tendency to summarize complex rules and then insert that rule of thumb as the real rule in their thinking. =)

That's what you guys are unintentionally doing: Because we're allowed to modify the user configuration file, and the FoV variable is part of that file, we're allowed to modify it; what's the problem? The difficulty is that this is an oversimplification of the actual rules; we're allowed to alter that config file in good faith in order to get the game working (e.g. joystick settings,) but the very next question in the FAQ tells us that any modification intended to gain an advantage is prohibited - and removing visual obstructions can certainly count. It's the same as if I hacked the game to remove the fracking film grain, which I hate with a passion.

Now, some people would argue, I'm sure, that they don't notice the glass (or the grain,) and that it doesn't affect them and give them an advantage. They may be sincere in their beliefs, but sincerity alone doesn't make for a strong argument. I know, for example, that film grain's removal would affect my performance - I've had to fiddle with my color and contrast controls because something in the way my monitor/system/the aether is set up made it really hard for me to see people at long range. removing grain, or glass, would simplify the visual environment by making my brain filter out less junk for target recognition. An argument that amounts to, "well, I don't notice it," isn't going to hold water when it's a clear (haha, get it?) benefit to others.

[Dimento Graven]

Alexandrix, on 29 January 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

Man...that whole "design pillar" about a game where "you are the pilot of a mech" "inside the cockpit" has really taken a beating the past year hasn't it? LOL

Is anyone of us SO STUPID as to FORGET we're inside a big stompy robot without smudgy glass, and a functionless cockpit surrounding us?

I am fairly certain that MOST of us aren't... Though some posting on this forum, I'm beginning to suspect otherwise, admittedly.

[zolop]

Dimento Graven, on 29 January 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Well, you could go to YouTube and view ALL my videos, the ones prior to my making this change, and the few afterwards, and you're not going to a significant super increase in kills.

I readily admit to NOT being the best MechWarrior out there, HOWEVER, I didn't suddenly become 'super soldier' with my cockpit removed, it didn't increase my accuracy one iota, and I wasn't able to see through buildings, terrain, or other solid objects, NOR was I able to survive, dodge, or otherwise mitigate ANY damage that was directed towards me.

IF YOU PREFER to look at your battle through a smudgy porthole, you can absolutely continue to play with the cockpit enabled, however, if you'd like the environment to be nearly as entertaining as the action, try it without...

I probably will try it without, though immersion is a critical factor to me, like how each battlemech has its own cockpit (though there is a bunch that looks similar to each other).

[Void Angel]

Dimento Graven, on 29 January 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Well, you could go to YouTube and view ALL my videos, the ones prior to my making this change, and the few afterwards, and you're not going to a significant super increase in kills.

I readily admit to NOT being the best MechWarrior out there, HOWEVER, I didn't suddenly become 'super soldier' with my cockpit removed, it didn't increase my accuracy one iota, and I wasn't able to see through buildings, terrain, or other solid objects, NOR was I able to survive, dodge, or otherwise mitigate ANY damage that was directed towards me.

IF YOU PREFER to look at your battle through a smudgy porthole, you can absolutely continue to play with the cockpit enabled, however, if you'd like the environment to be nearly as entertaining as the action, try it without...

It may turn out to be ruled a violation of the ToS to use these settings because of cockpit glass, but it's certainly an irrational overstatement to call you a cheater. Even if PGI decides to say no to it, it's enough of a grey area that no punitive action is in order, at least in my opinion.

[Rhaythe]

Dimento Graven, on 29 January 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Is anyone of us SO STUPID as to FORGET we're inside a big stompy robot without smudgy glass, and a functionless cockpit surrounding us?

I am fairly certain that MOST of us aren't... Though some posting on this forum, I'm beginning to suspect otherwise, admittedly.

I think the big qualm here is that this, along with third-person view, shatters the suspension of disbelief. It reminds us we're in a videogame and alters the experience.

I kind of put this "view" along the lines of cycling through views in a Need for Speed game. You have the trailing camera, the driver's cabin, and the "bumper cam". This reminds me a lot of that. I'd love to see PGI embrace this view and incorporate it instead of shunning it outright. If it offers an advantage, then give it a balancing disadvantage. For example, have it be a "camera" on the front of the mech with an extremely-limited field of view and even more smudge on it than the cockpit (after all, it's lower to the ground).

I may not like third-person view, but they incorporated it into the mythos by having a trailing drone. They can do the same here.