540 replies to this topic

[Wispsy]

KharnZor, on 31 January 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

@ Wispsy, did they finally impound your spider? never seen you in anything but that evil arachnid

Nowhere near my most played mech rofl.


banana it is in my forum sig >.<

[Chrithu]

Deal with it.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Jason Parker, on 01 February 2014 - 12:55 AM, said:

Deal with it.

People are dealing with it on the proper venue here. It's funny to see a years worth of posts on the subject and see the same players work their hardest to discount then as now. The issue is not close battles that steam roll or any of the other apologist tripe being spread here. The fact is there are stomps, they exist and for pugs they are regular occurrences. Perception is reality and the fact is once a player gets rolled by a stomp team , mocked then GG after a three minute match the next ones to come feel the same even if the match fits in any of your excuse profiles posted here.

We know stomps exist, We know it creates the threads here over an over and we never place the blame where it should be. PGI knows and has does nothing past ridiculous nerfing and tweaking.

I know after year that splitting ques will not work due to server population. I know adding ingame voice will help some and probably help with retention maybe moving to a separate que someday. I think long before we get to separation though we should be thinking of how to grow the game enough to afford overseas servers which will relieve even greater issues which affect us all.
So you defenders of the realm are defending a dying kingdom from those wanting the kingdom to thrive. Your not helping anyone just alienating future investors..
Instead of telling people to shut up or carry harder work with us to make these perceptions go away. Of course some will always perceive but after a year of posts thinking there is no problem just shows a complete lack of critical thinking skills, nothing more.

[Wrathful-Khan]

If they had separate queues nothing would stop groups on teamspeak from solo sync dropping anyway.

In-games comms would certainly help to put everyone at least on the same footing in that regard - without the need to split sever population.

Edited by Indiandream, 01 February 2014 - 03:01 AM.

[wanderer]

Mudhutwarrior, on 01 February 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

I know after year that splitting ques will not work due to server population

I know stomping newbies into the mud with an unseparated queue is doing MIRACLES for increasing the server population.

FFS, I know I'm in PUG hell statwise and it's put ME in the same match with Wisby before. Against a meta-filled company of poptarts, for good measure.

When the player pool has people with a .5 KDR in 'Mechs with losing records getting stuck in with him, what good is ELO sorting when there aren't enough people to sort in folks that are "good" from folks that are "average" at best?

Get the PUGs into their own queue and maybe, MAYBE you'll breed enough good players to keep the game going. Keep trampling them and we'll run out sooner rather than later. Randomize queue entry delays and only put soloers into games as filler for matches composed of mostly premade groups, while leaving solo player games for...you guessed it, only soloers.

Give 12-man groups opponents in the order of 1) Other 12 mans, 2) Premades with 25% max (that is 1 PUG for every 3 premade players).

[Joseph Mallan]

wanderer, on 01 February 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

I know stomping newbies into the mud with an unseparated queue is doing MIRACLES for increasing the server population.

FFS, I know I'm in PUG hell statwise and it's put ME in the same match with Wisby before. Against a meta-filled company of poptarts, for good measure.

When the player pool has people with a .5 KDR in 'Mechs with losing records getting stuck in with him, what good is ELO sorting when there aren't enough people to sort in folks that are "good" from folks that are "average" at best?

Get the PUGs into their own queue and maybe, MAYBE you'll breed enough good players to keep the game going. Keep trampling them and we'll run out sooner rather than later. Randomize queue entry delays and only put soloers into games as filler for matches composed of mostly premade groups, while leaving solo player games for...you guessed it, only soloers.

Give 12-man groups opponents in the order of 1) Other 12 mans, 2) Premades with 25% max (that is 1 PUG for every 3 premade players).

Both Wispsy and the Noob got to play a match, instead of reading "no match found" for the 12th time.

And Mud, good post sir. Though I think Jason was just being a smart Ash for humor's sake and to see if it would get a rise out of someone.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 01 February 2014 - 07:34 AM.

[wanderer]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 February 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Both Wispsy and the Noob got to play a match, instead of reading "no match found" for the 12th time.

And Mud, good post sir. Though I think Jason was just being a smart Ash for humor's sake and to see if it would get a rise out of someone.

That's grand. How many newbies we gonna sacrifice on that pyre as they up and leave from getting to "play" like that?

Heck, how few people had to be on to put a cadet in with Wispsy to begin with?

[Nick Makiaveli]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 31 January 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

I don't have a "theory" anymore... I went out and proved it. You and the others like Sandy are full of talk where I actually took action and did the research. You're welcome and I've got a cigar fired up with a glass to scotch to celebrate.

No, you went out and collected some personal data, which means this is purely anecdotal evidence, not proof.

A banana in the tailpipe, on 31 January 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

You're the guy who says "death awaits you" or "death comes for you" ect correct? Yeah I was placed in a stomp vs you while my cadet bonus was still intact. Just more proof the matchmaker and this game is screwed without PGI doing something major to increase the player base.

This is one instance where it sucks to be right, and nobody can refute it despite how hard they claim ELO, the matchmaker, or even PGI themselves work. The population cannot support this style of matching and PGI has 3 options:

1. Some sort of incentive like free MC so players will come back / give MWO a try.

2. Abandon MMO style servers and let players host their own servers so they can segregate high and low skilled players, or at the very least allow players to move on from a server they are outclassed on instead of getting placed in stomp after stomp wasting the player's time.

3. Allow the game to continue spiraling out of control and circle the drain.

Game, set, match. Checkmate ladies... stick a fork in this one.

Yeah, no. You claim you are capable of doing the research to prove your point, yet you don't realize you need to understand the system you are working with.

New players don't have a 0 Elo at start. It's a low middle range number, ie it presumes that new players are average. Yes this makes it a bit rough on new players, but it's the system we have.

Also, the system does a group average, so your lower number could be balanced against his higher one by the addition of a higher player on your side and a lower one on his.

Finally, how about you go read the Command Chair posts on the Elo system before you start diagnosing the issues it has. Have some actual knowledge before you declare yourself an expert.

Mudhutwarrior, on 01 February 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

People are dealing with it on the proper venue here. It's funny to see a years worth of posts on the subject and see the same players work their hardest to discount then as now. The issue is not close battles that steam roll or any of the other apologist tripe being spread here. The fact is there are stomps, they exist and for pugs they are regular occurrences. Perception is reality and the fact is once a player gets rolled by a stomp team , mocked then GG after a three minute match the next ones to come feel the same even if the match fits in any of your excuse profiles posted here.

We know stomps exist, We know it creates the threads here over an over and we never place the blame where it should be. PGI knows and has does nothing past ridiculous nerfing and tweaking.

I know after year that splitting ques will not work due to server population. I know adding ingame voice will help some and probably help with retention maybe moving to a separate que someday. I think long before we get to separation though we should be thinking of how to grow the game enough to afford overseas servers which will relieve even greater issues which affect us all.
So you defenders of the realm are defending a dying kingdom from those wanting the kingdom to thrive. Your not helping anyone just alienating future investors..
Instead of telling people to shut up or carry harder work with us to make these perceptions go away. Of course some will always perceive but after a year of posts thinking there is no problem just shows a complete lack of critical thinking skills, nothing more.

1. False assumption. If you never drop as a pre-made, how do you know how often pre-mades get stomped? I had several 2-12 stomps last night, as well as some 12-2 stomps.

2. Perception isn't reality. Perception can warp one's view of reality, but that doesn't change the facts. So yes, getting the word out would be a good thing, oh wait. They did. CC posts about the Elo system etc, yet we have fruits like banana up there not reading anything and just running off making wild accusations.

3. How so? By showing that people are making unsupportable accusations? Such as PUGs are the only ones getting stomped, or making BS statements about how Elo works? How is trying to get the truth out there a bad thing? In other words, you are assuming you have the Absolute Truth, and that isn't the case. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[Joseph Mallan]

wanderer, on 01 February 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

That's grand. How many newbies we gonna sacrifice on that pyre as they up and leave from getting to "play" like that?

Heck, how few people had to be on to put a cadet in with Wispsy to begin with?

MW:O was my first venture into PvP video gaming. You can ask the Law, I am still learning the ropes of MMOs. I do not want to be given a victory, I want to earn it. Its why I waited to join the Law till I was at least a statistically Average player first.

You know I had to play BattleTech against players who had played it for months or years when I first started, I had to wrestle against kids who were state level wrestlers when I was a 1st year noob. Baseball, football, Every game I ever played, someone was better or worse than I was. Sometimes by leagues of ability. That was fair. So why does this have to be different?

I personally want to drop vs Wispsy as often as I can. Every time I do, I get closer to learning how to defeat him. Presently I have to do it while he is sleeping... with a big club!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 01 February 2014 - 08:44 AM.

[NRP]

wwiiogre, on 26 January 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

I can change my win/loss the moment I start dropping in 4mans. It dramatically increases. In 4mans I can usually get upto a 3/1 or 4/1 win/loss.

Doesn't this just mean you're a scrub who needs a team to carry you? Honest question.

[wanderer]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 February 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

You know I had to play BattleTech against players who had played it for months or years when I first started, I had to wrestle against kids who were state level wrestlers when I was a 1st year noob. Baseball, football, Every game I ever played, someone was better or worse than I was. Sometimes by leagues of ability. That was fair. So why does this have to be different?

Did your coach seriously put your JV wrestlers against state champs on a regular basis and expect them to win? Perhaps your high school football team got tossed into college play regularly for training purposes?

Quote

I personally want to drop vs Wispsy as often as I can. Every time I do, I get closer to learning how to defeat him. Presently I have to do it while he is sleeping... with a big club!

For the record, the answer is "simply set up behind the ridge in Caustic and hop up and down until you kill the rest of his team, leaving him alone to die slowly".

What? That's what happened when I ended up in Wispsy's team. Meta-pogo-sticking, team died, Wispsy basically had to sit at long range in his Raven and pick at people until he was blown to bits in the end.

NRP, on 01 February 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

Doesn't this just mean you're a scrub who needs a team to carry you? Honest question.

Nope. It means teams carry each other, but a soloer not only has nothing to rely on, frequently his own team will end up hosing him to boot. Nothing like being the assault pilot, seeing your lance engage...and then run off and leave you with a 4v1 while none of them are below 80%.

Or being shot in the back. Or watching them chase a Locust while ignoring the lance drilling them in the back instead, not a one capable of communicating with the other while going "SQUIRREL!"

When I'm in a premade with VOIP, that stuff just -doesn't happen-, because premades, especially VOIP-enabled, kill those problems fast before they get you killed.

[Joseph Mallan]

NRP, on 01 February 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

Doesn't this just mean you're a scrub who needs a team to carry you? Honest question.

Honest answer is that he could be a good player, but chum around with better players that can adjust to cover his weaknesses. Nothing shameful about that.

[Joseph Mallan]

wanderer, on 01 February 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

Did your coach seriously put your JV wrestlers against state champs on a regular basis and expect them to win? Perhaps your high school football team got tossed into college play regularly for training purposes?

We had 5 state level wrestlers on our team, I practiced against at least two of them every day. Yes we practiced with more skilled team mates all the time, it made us better faster. I even could hold my own against any of them by the end of 4 years.

Quote

For the record, the answer is "simply set up behind the ridge in Caustic and hop up and down until you kill the rest of his team, leaving him alone to die slowly".

I don't use Jump Jets so I will have to trudge back and forth the old fashioned way.

Quote

What? That's what happened when I ended up in Wispsy's team. Meta-pogo-sticking, team died, Wispsy basically had to sit at long range in his Raven and pick at people until he was blown to bits in the end.

Guess the other team got the luck of the draw. Matches like that I walk away from thinking, better luck next time... But I did get 250 damage, Not to bad in this instance.

Quote

Nope. It means teams carry each other, but a soloer not only has nothing to rely on, frequently his own team will end up hosing him to boot. Nothing like being the assault pilot, seeing your lance engage...and then run off and leave you with a 4v1 while none of them are below 80%.

Its a bummer when it happens but I don't expect loyalty and good team tactics in PUGs. It leads to heartache.

Quote

Or being shot in the back. Or watching them chase a Locust while ignoring the lance drilling them in the back instead, not a one capable of communicating with the other while going "SQUIRREL!"

When this happens when dropping with the Law several f u guys have the Benny Hill theme music as a reminder!

Quote

When I'm in a premade with VOIP, that stuff just -doesn't happen-, because premades, especially VOIP-enabled, kill those problems fast before they get you killed.

Then your team is more disciplined than we tend to be... But that could just be cause we get all drunk and end up shooting each other's legs off!

[xe N on]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 February 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

We had 5 state level wrestlers on our team, I practiced against at least two of them every day. Yes we practiced with more skilled team mates all the time, it made us better faster. I even could hold my own against any of them by the end of 4 years.

How did your training looked like? There is a HUGE difference between train with someone and get beaten up by someone much about your level who wants to win quickly against you in a tournament.

Someone who trains you will maybe punch you hard but he will tell you what you did wrong and how to do better next time. He will train your movement and reaction over and over again until you can perform it while sleeping. He wont just say "gg n00b, I pwned you hard olololol" like in MWO and leave the match.

Edited by xe N on, 01 February 2014 - 10:50 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

xe N on, on 01 February 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

How did your training looked like? There is a HUGE difference between train with someone and get beaten up by someone much about your level who wants to win quickly against you in a tournament.

Someone who trains you will maybe punch you hard but he will tell you what you did wrong and how to do better next time. He will train with you some stances over and over again until you can perform it while sleeping. He wont just say "gg n00b, I pwned you hard olololol" like in MWO and leave the match.

Oh I took a beating from them for years, They were way better than I was, but if I wanted to wrestle, I took my beatings from them, and tried some of the things used against me. Also when we were practicing moves, we took our turns trying the moves neither side "let" the move work, you had to make it work. an when free sparring time came around... My Ash got whooped in nothing flat for years b the state guys. Until I got better, then they had to earn their win.

Not everyone that says GG is a jerk, and Those who usually say "I powned you" end up having done less overall damage than I did, so I just sit in front of my computer and chuckle. And when I didn't I try to evaluate where I went wrong.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 01 February 2014 - 11:01 AM.

[xe N on]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 February 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Oh I took a beating from them for years, They were way better than I was, but if I wanted to wrestle, I took my beatings from them, and tried some of the things used against me. Also when we were practicing moves, we took our turns trying the moves neither side "let" the move work, you had to make it work. an when free sparring time came around... My Ash got whooped in nothing flat for years b the state guys. Until I got better, then they had to earn their win.

Not everyone that says GG is a jerk, and Those who usually say "I powned you" end up having done less overall damage than I did, so I just sit in front of my computer and chuckle. And when I didn't I try to evaluate where I went wrong.

The difference is: MWO is a team game and not 1on1 and MWO sparring time only. There is only limited traning for a PUG player in MWO.

As PUG-Player you can increase your personal skills like e.g. aiming, but this won't let you go against premades. Playing against premades that stomp you in MWO don't train you anything if you don't are in a premade of your own.

I played in "premades" in other online games. So, I know how devastating a well-experienced team is against a random team, even if the random team consist of players that have some skill. I know that from playing: Quake 1-4, Counter Strike, Tribes 1+2, DAoC and so on.

And I know also something other: This game has a good chance to die out if premades continues to stomp over new and PUG players.

Edited by xe N on, 01 February 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Holding in your farts]

Wispsy, on 01 February 2014 - 12:36 AM, said:

banana it is in my forum sig >.<

Oops sorry. I was taught to look people in the eyes not down at their "ahem" sigs.

For anyone who took it the wrong way and thought when I said "I'm out" that I'm quitting. Na I just wanted to put an end to the debate, do the research on my own, and having proven beyond a doubt what's broken, "I'm out" means I'm going back to playing for enjoyment rather than data collection. There's nothing to refute, and no rebuttal that will change the fact unless PGI makes a substantial change this game will plateau and cease to grow.

Stomps suck and they have crippled this game's player base by a substantial amount. Through my data we now know beyond a doubt the most novice of players are being placed in inappropriate matches for their skill level which is a symptom of the lack of said player base. I won't be baited into "pie in the sky" claims everything is fine.

The best thing I can do to help at this point is continue to participate so novice players have an easier target to shoot at. I've used nothing but the two lighter trial mechs for the entire time this account has existed and they were both mechs I've never used before so it was quite refreshing. Having just crossed the 12mill c-bill mark I'm going to keep saving up for when the clans roll out and dedicate this account to a stable of light/medium mechs. The trials are good enough I've no desire to buy anything till then.

The rest of you who want to thump your chests and scream I'm wrong are just jelly I thought of a cooler call sign than you did.



I'll see you ladies on the battlefield and watch your pipes.

Edited by A banana in the tailpipe, 01 February 2014 - 11:33 AM.

[Holding in your farts]

LOL first match today, a total stomp. Not even a single assist from my team. (those jerks wouldn't let me duel a raven in peace and were only out for blood) I thanked them for being the reason this game is tanking fast.

Edited by A banana in the tailpipe, 01 February 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[wanderer]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 February 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Oh I took a beating from them for years, They were way better than I was, but if I wanted to wrestle, I took my beatings from them, and tried some of the things used against me. Also when we were practicing moves, we took our turns trying the moves neither side "let" the move work, you had to make it work. an when free sparring time came around... My Ash got whooped in nothing flat for years b the state guys. Until I got better, then they had to earn their win.

Right. So when the time came in a real match, were they slapping your lower-skilled self in against the best, or were they putting your state champs against whoever was best on the other side? Being that actual competitions are where it matters.

Training is one thing. "Losing" don't matter, learning does. MWO, a loss matters. It's a slower road to any kind of progress- pilot skills, new equipment, whatever. Without even the taste of being able to perform consistently and succeed, the general result is "Hi, I'm a scrub and I'm here to be used for target practice".

You, and I know what it's like to succeed. New players are learning what it means to be beaten repeatedly instead, courtesy of the "state champs" of MWO.

[KharnZor]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 01 February 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

LOL first match today, a total stomp. Not even a single assist from my team. (those jerks wouldn't let me duel a raven in peace and were only out for blood) I thanked them for being the reason this game is tanking fast.