23 replies to this topic

[Clownwarlord]

I have been playing since March last year (2013) ... I came into this game thinking I have been waiting for a good mech game since the dawn of time where I get to play against and with real people. (Having owned Heavy Gear there wasn't any good multiplayer because it was made way before the big boon of online gaming.)

So when I came in I was thinking lets do it right get info on how to play and what to do and what not to do. A lot of players where all about when you die watch others play because you can learn stuff (with it be not to do or to do), and also always stay together (mind you this was back in 8man days and everyone was dropped in one big blob).

Back during those days I was doing over 200 damage and getting about 1 kill a match, nothing great but what I would believe to be an average players level. Now though I average over 350 damage and 2 to 3 kills a match and I wonder is this because I have gotten better or has the player field gotten dumber????

Now as for 12man drops it is always a pain because you got those that want to run a weight limit and those that don't and you get screwed one way or another. Outside of this the only other times I find my self in a **** storm of being out classed is when I get thrown in against 4mans when I am solo pugging.

I was just looking for other people's opinions on if the player base has gotten easier or not so please let me know what you think because I currently think it has.

[NextGame]

practice makes perfect

[Khobai]

Quote

Back during those days I was doing over 200 damage and getting about 1 kill a match, nothing great but what I would believe to be an average players level. Now though I average over 350 damage and 2 to 3 kills a match and I wonder is this because I have gotten better or has the player field gotten dumber????

Player field has gotten dumber.

PGI changing the spawn locations to split teams up proves just how dumb players really are.

Its amazing how often you see lances that refuse to reform the deathball with the rest of their team and just go off on their own and die.

[Joseph Mallan]

I admit to following my Lance in PUGs but only when we are a semi balanced mix. There is no reason for my Battlemaster to try and form up with 3 lights!

[Mudhutwarrior]

Its easier if you learned to bring DPS to matches. Most role play is dead now do its as much heat as you can bring. Bit sad in that regard and I hope for more tactical game play down the road.

[Craig Steele]

There seems to be this prevailing view that grouping up mechs is a good idea.

It's NOT, but it IS a good start.

The key issue is concentration of fire, I see many conga lines of mechs with one or two up the front banging away and the rest standing in line waiting for their turn. About now is when sometimes some say push and they dutifully file in one by one. If not they roll up when the guy in front dies for their own smashing.

Nothing wrong with flanking forces if you bring your firepower to the battle at the right time. If they get jumped it no different to the conga line fedding one by one.

Group up or flank, if your not focussing on concentrating firepower, your loosing.

So if you see your lance mate shooting, get up and shoot too, don't wait for him to die.

[Joseph Mallan]

Good advice Steele, to I would add, if you are in the lead... don't plug the hole! Move and allow your team to move along side of you to bring more damage to bare!

[Mawai]

There are lots of possibilities.

1) You likely are better.
2) The mech you use is also likely better. It is relatively easy to get 350 damage and a couple of kills in a ballistic heavy mech these days. Cataphracts and Jaegers particularly. Victors and other poptarts with AC10 and dual PPC are also quite effective if used properly (i.e. not poptarting all the time).
3) The introduction of a zoom module that works has had a huge impact on long range fire with ballistics and lasers ... it is now much more accurate and effective (though it has always been that way).
4) The introduction of ghost heat and some other nerfs has eliminated some of the insta-kill builds like the 6 ppc stalker that could kill most mechs in one or two accurate shots. As a result you may be living a bit longer.
5) On the topic of living longer ... the damage you do is directly proportional to how long you survive (more or less) ... with experience comes the ability to know when NOT to peek over a ridge or around a rock as well as the knowledge of when it makes more sense to fall back and when it makes more sense to push. As a result, you are probably surviving longer which has also increased your damage.

None of this has to do with the other players ... honestly, I haven't seen anyone acting particularly more newbish than anyone else when they first started the game. There are always folks that haven't yet learned the basic mantras of "stick together", "focus fire", "regroup" ... which is a good sign since it indicates that there are some people who are still trying out the game ... it is up to PGI to make the game interesting enough that they keep playing.

My concern last night was that some of the matches I dropped into (solo PUG) were 50% founders ... that does not bode well for good retention of new players.

[Mawai]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 January 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

Good advice Steele, to I would add, if you are in the lead... don't plug the hole! Move and allow your team to move along side of you to bring more damage to bare!

Its funny ... but I have seen so many teams die using this tactic. Peeking or rushing one by one into a static defence doesn't usually work. The opponents have 6:1 on your lead mech and since it IS in the lead, the opponents automatically focus fire on that one. Losing 2 or 3 mechs in such a charge usually will lose the game.

On the other hand, if the opponents only have 2 or possibly 3 holding the pass and you have 6 then pushing makes sense since you will trade your lead mech for 2 or 3 opponents.

So ... I would say that generally your suggestion is a bad idea ... ie., rushing into caldera through one entry with 6 opponents firing on the lead mech but occasionally is an excellent idea ... i.e. pushing out of the tunnel on forest colony with 6 mechs against 2 or 3 opponents.

Finally ... often I find that if you get blocked up you should back up and either flank a bit or blow the opponents up when they try to chase you through the choke point ... this generally works well. Try not to be "that guy" who peeks and gets blown away as a result.

Edited by Mawai, 27 January 2014 - 06:19 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

technically I don't suggest rushing the Caldera! Trying to assault through a choke point is bad tactics all around. But if you are going to, don't stop in the doorway, keep moving and let you team try to support you!

NextGame, on 27 January 2014 - 04:51 AM, said:

Perfect practice makes perfect

FIXED that for you. If you practice something the wrong way...

[Mawai]

Craig Steele, on 27 January 2014 - 06:03 AM, said:

There seems to be this prevailing view that grouping up mechs is a good idea.

It's NOT, but it IS a good start.

The key issue is concentration of fire, I see many conga lines of mechs with one or two up the front banging away and the rest standing in line waiting for their turn. About now is when sometimes some say push and they dutifully file in one by one. If not they roll up when the guy in front dies for their own smashing.

Nothing wrong with flanking forces if you bring your firepower to the battle at the right time. If they get jumped it no different to the conga line fedding one by one.

Group up or flank, if your not focussing on concentrating firepower, your loosing.

So if you see your lance mate shooting, get up and shoot too, don't wait for him to die.

"It's NOT, but it IS a good start."

It IS ... because the level of communication within teams is so low that one large group is the ONLY way that the 12 random people can coordinate their response to the other team.

Most often when I see a lance split off to flank (unless they are at the back of the main force and the main group is already engaged with the enemy main group) they die due to lack of coordination. Usuaully what happens is that the lance attracts the attention of the main body of the opponents resulting in a 8:4 or 12:4 situation and the lance is eliminated. The opponents then turn to finish off the main group and you get a 12:0,1,2 stomp.

I was in a match on alpine where one lance of the opposing team went onto the mesa across from the plateau. I believe the thinking was that they could snipe into our rear while we engaged the main force coming up the valley to the plateau. Didn't work at all ... we wiped the 8 in the valley with one loss and mopped up the flanking sniper lance. (I wasn't grouped ... it was a PUG match for me ... all we did was stick together).

If a lance can time a flanking move so that they can engage the opponents while they are assaulting the main group it can be extremely effective ... but that sort of coordination is generally not available except perhaps in 12 mans.

I find that "don't peek" (especially not at the same spot someone else peeked or if you saw your buddy get shot at), "know when to push", "know when to fall back", "stay together", "focus fire", "regroup", are about the level of generally possibly communications in this game at the moment ... and they don't lend themselves to well timed flanking moves or other interesting tactics.

[Craig Steele]

Mawai, on 27 January 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

"It's NOT, but it IS a good start."

It IS ... because the level of communication within teams is so low that one large group is the ONLY way that the 12 random people can coordinate their response to the other team.

Most often when I see a lance split off to flank (unless they are at the back of the main force and the main group is already engaged with the enemy main group) they die due to lack of coordination. Usuaully what happens is that the lance attracts the attention of the main body of the opponents resulting in a 8:4 or 12:4 situation and the lance is eliminated. The opponents then turn to finish off the main group and you get a 12:0,1,2 stomp.

I was in a match on alpine where one lance of the opposing team went onto the mesa across from the plateau. I believe the thinking was that they could snipe into our rear while we engaged the main force coming up the valley to the plateau. Didn't work at all ... we wiped the 8 in the valley with one loss and mopped up the flanking sniper lance. (I wasn't grouped ... it was a PUG match for me ... all we did was stick together).

If a lance can time a flanking move so that they can engage the opponents while they are assaulting the main group it can be extremely effective ... but that sort of coordination is generally not available except perhaps in 12 mans.

I find that "don't peek" (especially not at the same spot someone else peeked or if you saw your buddy get shot at), "know when to push", "know when to fall back", "stay together", "focus fire", "regroup", are about the level of generally possibly communications in this game at the moment ... and they don't lend themselves to well timed flanking moves or other interesting tactics.

Well we can disagree then. You can have your team clump around and feed one by one wondering why their team mates are dying. I'll quite happily wave to a four man flanking lance and say good luck, try not get jumped, while the other 7 with me are blowing away your singles one by one.

I too have played on Alpine map and seen 12 mechs flanking around the tower and clump up behind that little hill and get picked off one by one by our lance, our lance. We nailed 5 before the rest of the company arrived. I was solo, it was Charlie lance so I assume my 3 lances mates were all PUG's too. We had no comms, the only lance order was a typed "stick together" at the drop zone and we all followed the guy who said that.

And you know what, we were a flanking force, we were 4 mechs taking a path assuming their main force was going to be coming up the road and looking to get in their back.

Clumps are not pointless, they're just not the key issue. If you're not using the clump to bring a concentration of fire, you are loosing. And you can get concentration of fire in other ways.

[NRP]

No one gets "dumber" by playing the game a while. To suggest otherwise is simply condescending arrogance.

If the OP is doing better now than when he started, he clearly got better. Why would he assume he is any different than any other player?

[Craig Steele]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 January 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

Good advice Steele, to I would add, if you are in the lead... don't plug the hole! Move and allow your team to move along side of you to bring more damage to bare!

I remember a Cicada with a PPC once blocked the entrance to the Caldera. He had a Atlas, a Jag and me in a BLR behind him and he was sniping at a Jag to start with.

By the time we got around him (he kept backing up and going forward to the crest) they had 8 mechs lining the Caldera and it was a slaughter. If he had of let us in first we maybe could have nailed the jag and them blocked their entrance with fire (maybe, idk how they came in, one by one or grouped up)

Had a laugh at the time, but it's a good example of situational awareness.I just don't think it occurred to him that the firepower of his team mates was better employed in his position.

[Ghogiel]

Seems dumber.

Last 10 times I tried to organize the PUGs from a 4man premade in alpha lance. Usually only due to having another good premade or 2 on the other side, what happens about 6 of the PUGs go do the exact opposite thing. I commentate in realtime about their impending deaths and exactly what is happening and why..

So within some short moments my predictions and readings come to pass and they get to spectate as alpha lance then carries the team and does 2-3000 damage between our 4 players. And I say I told you so and you didn't listen.

[Bhael Fire]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 January 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

Good advice Steele, to I would add, if you are in the lead... don't plug the hole! Move and allow your team to move along side of you to bring more damage to bare!

Yeah, far too often I see players blocking firing lanes completely oblivious to the friendlies around them trying to get an angle on a shot or move past them.

Situational awareness includes knowing where your teammates are, as well as the enemy.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Bhael Fire, on 27 January 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

Yeah, far too often I see players blocking firing lanes completely oblivious to the friendlies around them trying to get an angle on a shot or move past them.

Situational awareness includes knowing where your teammates are, as well as the enemy.

Welcome to a game with progression based on damage/kills done. Don't hate the players, hate the game. It's an ugly system at best and promotes both FF and poor teamwork, especially when people get greedy and "vulture swoop" down upon a crippled mech only to cause TKs for their lance mates. Fail to the max PGI

[Craig Steele]

lockwoodx, on 28 January 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

Welcome to a game with progression based on damage/kills done. Don't hate the players, hate the game. It's an ugly system at best and promotes both FF and poor teamwork, especially when people get greedy and "vulture swoop" down upon a crippled mech only to cause TKs for their lance mates. Fail to the max PGI

Well in fairness they do ping XP and C-Bills, but I can't help but agree about the mentality. Some games I take more FF than enemy.

[Curccu]

Khobai, on 27 January 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

Player field has gotten dumber.

PGI changing the spawn locations to split teams up proves just how dumb players really are.

Its amazing how often you see lances that refuse to reform the deathball with the rest of their team and just go off on their own and die.

Well yeah deathballing is so damn boring

[Noesis]

@OP: Fit PPCs and ACs on an Assault Mech with JJ's and you will fit right in to the current game play.