38 replies to this topic

[HammerSwarm]

TL:DR
It's all about 100 ton mechs, we need more options at the top. Tactically you can put a ppc on a raven and it's a better substitute for a panther than an Atlas is for any other 100 ton mech.

Primer on the package.

This is a post Clans pack of 100 ton IS mechs. Three 100 ton chassis are being omitted from the game at the moment and are seen mechs. (aware the Marauder II is omitted but it is unseen) The omitted mechs are heavy hitters and often pack a punch exceeding that of the Atlas. The King Crab, The Imp, and The Annihilator should be added.

The Imp is a mech with a largely energy loadout. No other large assault comes close to the imp’s ammoless loadouts other than the Boar’s Head Atlas which is a heroic alternate and is unavailable for f2p purchase.

The King Crab is the table top’s most superior area denial mech blending a low profile, huge burst potential and extreme ammo dependence into a 100 ton death machine. (also part of my operation cancer package as seen here)

The Annihilator is a tall humanoid mech specializing in fixed point defenses. It’s slow but when it’s weapons come to bear on you you’ll know. Heavy armor and large armaments combine to create a valuable and unique mech for certain situations.

None of these are the role of the Atlas. The Atlas was a great first add because of it’s versatility. All three classes of weapons, ECM, large variation, etc. With tonnage limits and scenarios the atlas will leave the game painfully vacant at the top as players attempt to make a mech play in ways it was never designed to play.

Specific Fat Men:

The Imp

The Imp could have three great variants and could add two ECM variants to the battlefield. It has a mostly energy layout which favors it for long lasting matchups where as the atlas D-DC is relatively ammo dependent. The Imp is well suited to engage at any range armed with a mix of lasers to keep heat relatively stable. One could imagine the battlefield role of this mech as a different atlas. They are both ‘Swiss Army Mechs’ differing mostly in their use of ballistics. The Imp is a mech meant to last, encased in a shell of 18 tons of armor, the all energy load outs will help keep you firing longer than anything else. Couple this with ECM and you can see where the Imp could fit in your company.

The Annihilator

Imposing is the first word which springs to mind. Modeled after large radioactive dinosaurs which roamed the pacific rim in the early 1970s the slow path of destruction left in the wake of this mech is undeniable. Capable of carrying up to 4 ballistics in a favorable loadout this mech is a nightmare for those who stumble upon it. This firepower comes at the expense of mobility as this mech which moves at only 34.2 KPH is definitely a plodder. An urban defense mech and a mobile fortification point are the battlefield roles of this mech. It should not be seen roaming the vast open killing fields of the alpine peaks but rather left behind as a killer base defense. The variants of this behemoth range from all energy in a stunning 10 hardpoint model to balanced models with 4 by 4 and 5 by 3 Energy/Ballistic load outs. You won’t wonder what killed you when you see this beastly mech on the horizon.

The King Crab

Hold the butter this one pinches back. The King Crab is 100 tons of death. Primarily packing 2 A/C 20s in it’s claws it will leave you crabby if it scuttles out from behind that building to end your day. A low profile makes this mech perfect for area denial as it can hid behind most low cover from which you could easily spot taller assaults. It’s more mobile than other mechs such as the Annihilator allowing it to cover whole areas and bring death unto all who stumble upon it. It won’t chase you down, but good luck outrunning bullets. You can read more about my arguments for a King Crab here.

But Why 100 ton Mechs? Why so many? We already have the Atlas isn’t it the best?! what more could I need?

Let me say something controversial here. The Atlas is not the best. It’s not even maybe in my top three 100 ton assault mechs. The Atlas is like calling a handyman when you really needed a plumber, an electrician, and a carpenter; The Atlas might get the job done but he’s no expert. The Atlas makes the best commercial because he is what battletech is, mostly humanoid mechs that look like linebackers from hell. The Atlas Brings a hammer when you really wanted a knife. We need the mechs that have the other tools to bring out the roles they were designed for.

As part of community warfare I hope PGI increases the diversity of game modes and increases the stakes of winning and losing. Currently there isn’t a compelling reason to protect your base in assault. Sure you might lose a match to capping but that only matters until your next consequence free drop to gather XP and Cbills. Nothing is currently at stake, so the strategies are based around gathering kills, and assists which generate the most Cbills and XP. If there were a reason to protect your base such as losing a planet for your faction which would reduce your faction standing or some arbitrary bonuses that I assume you’d want then you’d put more effort into protecting the cap at all costs. If you’re protecting something I assume you’d want the best tool for that job and it’s probably a King Crab or an Annihilator. Depending on the game type you might want a largely stationary defender an Annihilator or a more mobile one like a King Crab. If you’re looking for a front line beater then You’re looking for the Imp and the Atlas.

You need all of these because they are so different in role, loadouts, and configurations. A King Crab is a mile wide but, perhaps 10 meters tall. An Annihilator’s head is at least 5 meters higher and it’s not nearly the horizontal target a KGC is. The atlas has guns a plenty but 10 minutes into the battle when it’s down to lasers the Imp is still firing away.

But Canon!?!
I know there are some canonicity problems such as the number/location/availability of a few mechs on this list. Some came into production in 3048 and 3050 although designs were also mentioned as star league era. This is where you have to compromise strict adherence to canon for the sake of making a playable game. We’re within timeline, and we’re not changing the form or the substance of these mechs. What we are doing is allowing any player who wants to to own 10 Annihilators even though the cost of such a venture would be nearly impossible in canon, when you factor in location, faction, and such it becomes even more impossible to strictly adhere to canon. You simply can’t pick and choose which players get which mechs, while balancing everything, and making the game fun. This is a game we spend a few hours on per day, and not a lifetime in universe. Please don’t shout CANON about little things.

The Variants


As you can see above each has 3 variants that are/should be time line appropriate. On Sarna none had weapons which would disqualify them from being time line appropriate or were mentioned as out of our timeline.

Closing Thoughts
I'd like to see this announced closer to the window of the clan releases as an alternative to the clan packages. Give IS loyalists something to look forward too/buy. Not everyone wants to be a clanner.

Put a price of about 10 cents per ton for 900 tons and we're at 90 dollars which is 10$ per mech and is not unreasonable in comparison to the pricing structure already in game.

As far as a specialized theme camo I can see a bicolor paint scheme in white and black with a sleek black base and a vertical line running parallel with the vertical axis of the mech in a contrasting white on the right side torso and right leg of the mech. Simple but elegant.

Edited by HammerSwarm, 27 January 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[CuriousCabbitBlue]

yes and the king crab looks epic xD

[tucsonspeed6]

God help us if they add the Annihilator.

[Will9761]

The Annihilator already looks, it has "diabetus", lol.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

OP: You say Mauler II, I think you mean Marauder II.

Also, if only there were enough variants to make the Pillager work...

[HammerSwarm]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 27 January 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

OP: You say Mauler II, I think you mean Marauder II.

Also, if only there were enough variants to make the Pillager work...

I did indeed, good catch!

Will9761, on 27 January 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

The Annihilator already looks, it has "diabetus", lol.

It's hard to make 100 tons slim.

tucsonspeed6, on 27 January 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

God help us if they add the Annihilator.

It's so slow though, A slow turning speed and limited torso twist would make it a risk/reward type mech. You're slow, but things running towards you in a straight line better beware.

[Ngamok]

Would rather have the Banshee, the 3S and 5S in particular, over these. Fill the 95 ton slot since it's the only unfilled ton slot left. Previous was 55 tons now we have 4 mechs in that spot.

[HammerSwarm]

Ngamok, on 27 January 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

Would rather have the Banshee, the 3S and 5S in particular, over these. Fill the 95 ton slot since it's the only unfilled ton slot left. Previous was 55 tons now we have 4 mechs in that spot.

This could be a good add at 95 tons but in your opinion what does it add to the roles of assault mechs? particularly in defense, and area denial?

The banshee seems to me that it could be powered down to offer additional fire power but the real objective of the mech line was to be a 95 ton striker. The role of a super fast striker seems to me to already be incorporated in the boar's head, victor, and battle master designs. I'm not saying don't add it, just that it's not a substitute for anything mentioned above.

The mechs above do what they do and do it well which was the point of this thread, they should be added to give more variety at the top.

[Ngamok]

HammerSwarm, on 27 January 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

This could be a good add at 95 tons but in your opinion what does it add to the roles of assault mechs? particularly in defense, and area denial?

The banshee seems to me that it could be powered down to offer additional fire power but the real objective of the mech line was to be a 95 ton striker. The role of a super fast striker seems to me to already be incorporated in the boar's head, victor, and battle master designs. I'm not saying don't add it, just that it's not a substitute for anything mentioned above.

The mechs above do what they do and do it well which was the point of this thread, they should be added to give more variety at the top.

Well, the Imp really doesn't add anything other than lots of lasers. The Annihilator is a Wolf's Dragoon mech not IS per say. The King Crab would be nice but still prefer banshee.

[CrashieJ]

OPERATION DIABETUS

OMEGA!

[HammerSwarm]

gavilatius, on 27 January 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

OPERATION DIABETUS

OMEGA!

Spoiler

Don't I wish, but sadly it's out of timeline.

Ngamok, on 27 January 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

Well, the Imp really doesn't add anything other than lots of lasers. The Annihilator is a Wolf's Dragoon mech not IS per say. The King Crab would be nice but still prefer banshee.

I disagree, the Impy is mostly energy. It also has 2 ECM variants which would offer more ECM at the 100 ton mark without being all DDC all of the time.

Being mostly energy makes a mech non dependent on ammunition for a long battle. This increases standoff potential as well as giving mechs an increased life in future game modes where you might benefit from ammo conservation or longevity on the battlefield.

In comparison the Atlas - BH has 6 energy hard points all in the arms. Arms are more vulnerable than torsos.

I knew the Annihilator would raise some eyebrows which is why I included the obligatory canon disclaimer.

[Grayblue]

Forget 100 ton assault.

Give me the Omega.

[HammerSwarm]

Grayblue, on 27 January 2014 - 08:08 PM, said:

Forget 100 ton assault.

Give me the Omega.

Wait 26 years and after we get CW and the Clans I am sure the MWO team will be very prompt in giving us the Jihad.

Srsly though. If there is a place for it like there is for the mechs above it should be added. I believe there would be a place for a slow moving 150 ton prototype behemoth like the omega.

This thread is about the three mechs above. Which have a place and in the game and a role crying out to be filled by something. When we get new game modes and tonnage limits mechs which were considered useless before because they didn't have a role will find new life. Roles with out mechs will be a glaring defect in the design of the game.

We should call out for a move by the devs before we are left without something which we will need. These mechs could be added to the queue and the devs could focus on delivering more mechs while pushing forward on CW.

Edited by HammerSwarm, 28 January 2014 - 06:47 AM.

[Kaox Veed]

100 ton assaults won't be that attractive once tonnage limits are in. A more well rounded and lighter assault will be a better team pick, like a Victor.

[The Silent Protagonist]

MOAR CRABS (annihilator optional)

[HammerSwarm]

Kaox Veed, on 28 January 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

100 ton assaults won't be that attractive once tonnage limits are in. A more well rounded and lighter assault will be a better team pick, like a Victor.

that depends on tactics and relative strength. If you had an annihilator and it could hold a point by itself freeing up 11 other mechs to roam free you might want one. Or a king crab covering a valley, crater, or entry way by itself. There is also value in having 100 ton assaults with ECM protecting other assets moving around the battlefield. Pretending you might need something other than a DDC the Imp is a great alternative.

Sure you might want a more homogeneous group of all similarly sized mechs but pretending there isn't a place for a mech on the extreme end with an extreme role is silliness. The only way that role won'e be there is if there is no mech to fill it and the full variety of tactics never develop.

[Kataiser]

I heard you like the ballistic metagame.

But really, no. Most King Crab and Anni variants can run quad UACs or triple gauss without worry. That a very bad thing, not a good thing. Pretty sure that at least two Annihilators can run 5x AC/5. That isn't something this game needs right now.

The fact that they picked the Atlas is a *good* thing. It has a fairly non-abusable hardpoint setup. Two of your three choices are ludicrously overpowered for MWO. The Imp might be OK, but that's just due to laser incompetence in the current meta. If lasers get a fix, then it'll be the same case. So no. Do not want.

Edit: Also Imp is just a strictly better Awesome. If they're going to just make a better Awesome, they should just buff the one they already have. Weight drops are not a thing yet, so we can't rely on that yet. Thus, Imp just makes the Awesome *even more* useless

Edited by Kataiser, 28 January 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Ozzy Stormlight]

annihilator ... YES
king crab .... meh...
Imp.... meh.. ( overweight awesome)

however, no one has mentioned the FRR's signature 100t , the fafnir.
true, we dont have the heavy gauss rifles to finish its stock load out, but i think it would look awesome in game w/ MWO styling.

and ya... id buy the package just because im a 100t nut

ATLAS PILOT TILL THE END!!! ... and a madcat pilot too ( when i receive delivery )

[HammerSwarm]

Stormlight, on 28 January 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Imp.... meh.. ( overweight awesome)*
however, no one has mentioned the FRR's signature 100t , the fafnir**.

* It's a lot overweight and the awesome should be better than it is. Also ECM,
** Not availible until 3063, in 13 years I would hope the MWO devs are on top of this and add it to the game.

The imp can be compared to an awesome, but we should look at what the awesome should be. It should be a mech firing Lasers at range and clearing out other mechs. The meta for that hasn't developed for many reasons.

One of my hopes is that when community warfare happens certain other things will happen too, Winning and losing will matter more, Matches will last longer so ammo will be more of a factor, and tonnage limits will come into play.

With tonnage limits when allocating your tonnage would dropping four shadow hawks down to hunchbacks in order to boost a quickdraw to an awesome or an awesome to an imp be worth it? I dunno but it could be interesting to see how your team could do with the mechs they enjoy best working together and sharing a common restriction. That only works if their are mechs of each role at each tier and the 95-100 ton tier is 1 mech.

Edited by HammerSwarm, 28 January 2014 - 09:04 AM.

[HammerSwarm]

Kataiser, on 28 January 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

I heard you like the ballistic metagame. *

But really, no. Most King Crab and Anni variants can run quad UACs or triple gauss without worry. That a very bad thing, not a good thing. Pretty sure that at least two Annihilators can run 5x AC/5. That isn't something this game needs right now. * *

The fact that they picked the Atlas is a *good* thing. * * * It has a fairly non-abusable hardpoint setup. Two of your three choices are ludicrously overpowered for MWO. The Imp might be OK, but that's just due to laser incompetence in the current meta. If lasers get a fix, then it'll be the same case. So no. Do not want.

Edit: Also Imp is just a strictly better Awesome. If they're going to just make a better Awesome, they should just buff the one they already have. Weight drops are not a thing yet, so we can't rely on that yet. Thus, Imp just makes the Awesome *even more* useless * * * *

* = I could care less about the ballistics meta game. It's not like I picked and chose which 100 ton mechs to choose of the ones on the TRO 3050 on Sarna. There are 5, the Atlas, the Marauder II, the Imp, the Annihilator, and the King Crab. For obvious legal reasons we have 4 to choose from. I want all 4 in game.

I don't even really like playing assaults, they're too slow. I recognize why they are in the game however, and want that aspect of the game to exist. Like when you are playing any other game and your run into the "Ogre Boss" he hits hard, he's big, but he's also slow. Assaults are meant to be big, and do a job just like every other mech in game. It's to the devs to work out their system so that the risk reward is always there.

** = the most I allowed for was 4 ballistics on a given variant. Weapons are also a risk reward. The weight of 4 Gauss rifles is like 60 tons. How much ammo, armor, and what engine can you equip in that mech? Even if you do is it really risk reward. If you look at my variants and how I constructed the mechs for MWO you eliminate many of the substantial problems. The most ballistics any mech has is 4 and only one KGC in my design would have dual AC 20s. although all 3 could have dual gauss if you wanted that.

*** = The atlas is as I explained the jack of all trades. I am sorry you feel that optimization is abuse. A mech that moves at 32 KPH is ludicrously over powered at? with tonnage limits it's only 30 tons less than 2 Jager which move faster with more critical slots and other advantages. Risk/Reward = tactics. Sure running into a one hundred ton assault could ruin your day. Here is the thing, it should ruin your day. These are dangerous mechs which should blow your locust back to hell if they hit you.

**** = Don't blame the imp for the failboat awesome. Lasers have the advantage that their ammoless. That would matter in longer matches or in survival conditions. On a campaign with no resupplies would you rather have lasers or ballistics? I am playing the long game where I am basing my desires on what I hope they would deliver to us eventually with CW.

If the game we have is all it is ever going to be I suspect I'd just play something else because I already have 90% of the mediums mastered.

If you click the link in my sig you'll see how passionately I've argued for the crab an all energy 50 ton medium mech with a unique profile, ecm, jump jets, and a cool look. I play mediums, I love mediums, but I recognize that tactics and mech roles need to be filled out for the game to grow. The crab is my 100% want/play happy mech.

Please continue to discuss if you disagree.