8 replies to this topic

[Syrkres]

Community, many of us seem to be writing our own "custom" implementation of Community Warfare, be it Proxis, "ladder" groups, etc.

All of these systems take a players "Mech" inventory on honor. That is there is currently no way for anyone to confirm with 100% accuracy that a player has the mech(s) they claim to have.

Thus they/we all rely on the "honor" system.

What I would like to propose (a quick solution from PGI to better support the community) is a web service which takes a User name and returns their mech chassis inventory.

This can be simply in that it only lists the specific chassis and (possibly number).

It should not need to return the mech configuration (though I'm sure that would be added benefit) I think most would be happy with just the list of user's mech chassis'.

I also added a question about possible fees to use the service as PGI would be more likely to add service if they can make money from it.

[Deathlike]

Am I wrong in thinking this is for the purposes of league play?

[Syrkres]

Yes Deathlike.

This would be 100% to support league play, bceause as of right now there is NO way to confirm 100% a player has the mechs he claims to have.

Even screen shots can be "faked".

[Deathlike]

Well, you can take a screenshot @ the end of a match, since that is usually the most accurate solution. However, the only obvious issue is that the variant/mech taken isn't the one that's on "your list" (invalidating the drop, breaking the rules, etc.) I don't think necessarily it would change that aspect. In essence, it wouldn't make too much of a difference.

I would support the idea, but TBH, screenshots of the end game screen is pretty accurate and although not tamperproof for photochops, this doesn't really solve that much in the grand scheme of things... it doesn't prevent the problem at hand (like, someone taking a Jenner-D instead of a Jenner-K as "promised").

[Syrkres]

Screenshots are not "safe" or good things to use as they are too easy to "fix" (i.e. see example below took me only 3 mins).




As for taking one that isn't on your list, not sure how you could do that. Right now most leagues require that you submit your inventory, If you can immediately read a players mech inventory from PGI how can they take something that they don't have? Unless they sold it between the time they played and the league checked? Then yes you would be able to have run a mech which the system could no longer confirm.

The Service API should return something to the extent in some type of delimited/JSON/Xml format.
HGN-733:2
HGN-HM:1
CTF-3D:4
etc.

Edited by Syrkres, 27 January 2014 - 03:44 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

In what situation is this necessary? Even in the most granular league en vogue opponents can see with their own two eyes and screenshot if someone violates a dropdec. I am just confused as to when this service might be worth the effort of designing, promoting and most mportantly trying to peer enforcing its use.

What "most" leagues require an individual pilot's inventory of mechs?

[Syrkres]

First, to design such a simple service should take 1 person 1-2 days (if I had to do it). I have co-workers who could probably do it in 1-2 hours. If PGI were to do it, a week. Since they already have this information, all they need to do is access your inventory ready (which they already have since it displays a players mech inventory) and dump it.

Second the reason for service to "automate/authenticate" a mech warriors inventory for leagues to take advantage of. Since CW is way off (probably next year since we are only getting registration this summer) this would better facilitate player run leagues/warfare.

Third, and didn't want to mention this until I have my final representation/video ready(soon) is it would go along with one other simple service (Battle results). A similar service as was mentioned here. This service would report the end result of a battle, which PGI apparently already logs (since they can look back at a battle to see if people were cheating). This service would simply translate the final screen shot to some text service.

With these two services one could easily implement a reliable CW system.

Edited by Syrkres, 27 January 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Syrkres, on 27 January 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

First, to design such a simple service should take 1 person 1-2 days (if I had to do it). I have co-workers who could probably do it in 1-2 hours. If PGI were to do it, a week.

Would it require players to give their information to a third party (such as yourself as the developer) in order for the automation service to see the information, translate it text reporting etc? If so, PGI strongly recommends against that sort of thing and secondly, that's going to be nigh on unenforceable for league play.

Syrkres, on 27 January 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

Second the reason for service to "automate/authenticate" a mech warriors inventory for leagues to take advantage of. Since CW is way off (probably next year since we are only getting registration this summer) this would better facilitate player run leagues/warfare.

Again, why? What league requires a player to submit their inventory to them currently? Considering people buy and grind mechs constantly, I imagine that would be a nightmare for league admins and atm, I know of none who require this. Probably because if a team violates a dropdec during a synch drop, it's obvious via the ingame interaction AND the final screenshots. Once a dispute is opened and league refs/admins take over, how often do you think someone is going to photoshop screenshots to deny the screenshots being turned in against them? Way too much work versus reward and you're only going to get away with it once before you earn your unit a rep as a potential cheat.

Do you think teams are routinely screwing the dropdec up and then trying to lie to refs/admins about the screenshots their opponents undoubtedly took to offer up as evidence in their disputed drop?

Syrkres, on 27 January 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

Third, and didn't want to mention this until I have my final representation/video ready(soon) is it would go along with one other simple service (Battle results). A similar service as was mentioned here. This service would report the end result of a battle, which PGI apparently already logs (since they can look back at a battle to see if people were cheating). This service would simply translate the final screen shot to some text service.

I agree it would be a cool little add-on but I'm pretty sure it will require either PGI's involvement or players offering up names/pw's to some amorphous third party to work.....which sounds like a bad idea personally.

Syrkres, on 27 January 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

With these two services one could easily implement a reliable CW system.

TBH, I think the leagues out there run as about as reliable a CW system as can be expected in a world without the ability to create private matches (aka lobbies).

I still would like to know why you think there's a demonstrated need to know people's inventory....not knowing someone's personal inventory has not impacted league/planetary play much at all from what I can see thus far. You said before:

Syrkres, on 27 January 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

Right now most leagues require that you submit your inventory....

Which ones?

Edited by Lukoi, 27 January 2014 - 03:52 PM.

[Deathlike]

Syrkres, on 27 January 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

Screenshots are not "safe" or good things to use as they are too easy to "fix" (i.e. see example below took me only 3 mins).




As for taking one that isn't on your list, not sure how you could do that. Right now most leagues require that you submit your inventory, If you can immediately read a players mech inventory from PGI how can they take something that they don't have? Unless they sold it between the time they played and the league checked? Then yes you would be able to have run a mech which the system could no longer confirm.

The Service API should return something to the extent in some type of delimited/JSON/Xml format.
HGN-733:2
HGN-HM:1
CTF-3D:4
etc.

That photochop is bad, and you should feel bad. It's incomplete and if anything it's actually really old - the mechlab visual (and if I'm not mistaken. that's Vassago Rain's mechbay?).

What's to say some people don't just buy or sell mechs, altering what they have in the mechbay. I'm not saying that's the most productive use of resources, but I think this is too much paranoia for one feature.