36 replies to this topic

[Durant Carlyle]

Madw0lf, on 30 January 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Any idea why it would be running so hot? And, could running at these temps for a prolonged period (I have no idea how long this had been going on before I found out about it) could damage the CPU?

That one looks good too, however it doesnt list supporting the LGA 775 socket?

There are only a few reasons:

1. Heat sink not mounted correctly, or mounted correctly but still not making adequate contact with CPU heat spreader. (perhaps due to bent mounting hardware?)
2. Thermal paste not correctly applied. (I use one pea-size dot in the middle of the heat spreader and let the pressure spread the paste but others use different methods)
3. Fan not working. (this one's hard to miss)
4. CPU voltage WAY too high. (unlikely, given that you've tested on two mainboards)

Your room temp isn't anyting unusual, so it's not that.

Since the thermal throttling is working correctly, the heat at that level shouldn't appreciably degrade the CPU. Thermal throttling happens BEFORE the CPU gets to danger level temps. If thermal throttling wasn't working, the CPU would actually shut itself down as an emergency measure at dangerous temps. If the system was shutting itself down, then you'd have to worry about damage.

The Hyper 212 Evo does include 775 mounting hardware according to the Cooler Master site. Linky.

[Madw0lf]

Smokeyjedi, on 30 January 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

Well any cpu running at thermal throttle point for more than a few minutes let alone prolonged use @ extreme temps will result in unexpected Heat/performance issues......sometimes they are okay. other times the cpu cooks.......

That was an interesting watch, and lead to even more....

Durant Carlyle, on 30 January 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

There are only a few reasons:

1. Heat sink not mounted correctly, or mounted correctly but still not making adequate contact with CPU heat spreader. (perhaps due to bent mounting hardware?)
2. Thermal paste not correctly applied. (I use one pea-size dot in the middle of the heat spreader and let the pressure spread the paste but others use different methods)
3. Fan not working. (this one's hard to miss)
4. CPU voltage WAY too high. (unlikely, given that you've tested on two mainboards)

Your room temp isn't anyting unusual, so it's not that.

Since the thermal throttling is working correctly, the heat at that level shouldn't appreciably degrade the CPU. Thermal throttling happens BEFORE the CPU gets to danger level temps. If thermal throttling wasn't working, the CPU would actually shut itself down as an emergency measure at dangerous temps. If the system was shutting itself down, then you'd have to worry about damage.

The Hyper 212 Evo does include 775 mounting hardware according to the Cooler Master site. Linky.

I believe the pea sized method is the one I used, repeatedly. Ill really have to check the voltage.

Thats what I was hoping about with the throttling, so a small investment may get me a few more years out of this heap (not good years, but years ) And thanks for that, I had been looking at the thing on Newegg not CM's site...

[Durant Carlyle]

I didn't even see Smokeyjedi's post. They've changed thermal throttling since those days. That, and every CPU now has a heat spreader permanently attached -- in the old days we mounted the heat sink directly to the CPU die.

The Hyper 212 Evo is great for stock speeds, and it's even good for light to moderate overclocking. It usually comes with one 120mm fan plus a bracket to add a second 120mm fan. Not bad at all for a $30 heat sink.

[Catamount]

PEA SIZED? Good god that's a lot of paste. It's not cake frosting people!

I think for most compounds, including AS5, it's more like a .177 caliber BB, and the less you can get away with, the better, because metal-metal contact has many times the thermal conduction rate of heat trying to go through a liquid medium. The TIM is just there to fill air cracks, usually tiny ones in the heatsink since CPU IHSs are usually pretty darn pristine by comparison (for whatever reason).

[Lord Letto]

Not sure if he seen the edit to my post, so i'll post it here:

Quote

My Understanding is the CPU was the last brand new thing to go in it and that was 5 years ago, I think #2 is most likely, it's likely just old and worn out. time to join the 21st Century and get a new computer. Then again, How long Do CPUs Normally Last OCed or Not? Did you OC (Overclock) The CPU at all? Cause that will Reduce the Lifespan of the CPU, Considering it's a Duel core and 2.5GHz Stock, I think it's safe to assume it was due to MWO being Very CPU Intensive and not liking Duel Cores very Much (Based on what I've seen in other threads on here). What performance were you getting when playing MWO?

Edited by Lord Letto, 30 January 2014 - 03:54 PM.

[Madw0lf]

Lord Letto, on 30 January 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Not sure if he seen the edit to my post, so i'll post it here:

I didnt see that, thank you for re-posting. Honestly the current MB (An Asus P5K Premium I know see) COULD be newer than the CPU....but I think theyre on the same age range. Ive had various CPUs last for much longer than five years ( I still have two laptops, on from 2008 one from 2004 which are going strong). I OCed it for a short while last year to see what kind of changes would occur (I was already having the overheating problem, so yes bad idea)

With regards to MWO, when it went Open Beta I couldnt play, I was getting like 2-5 FPS if that. So I gave up, thinking it was too new for my system. Started working with some guys who play, and that set me on a mission to try and make it work. Thats when I found out about the overheating. I had cleaned out and reorganized the case interior, completely re-formatted my drives and was trying to tweak things. Since then performance has been the same (slightly improving thanks to PGIs work) but I get mid 20 FPS in game at best on lowest possible settings.

CPU-Z is reading my voltage at 1.072 V, according to Intel http://ark.intel.com...ghz-800-mhz-fsb it should be able to near 1.4 V. Im going to reboot and try lowering the voltage, and check for fan settings while im in there. See you in a few minutes!

[Smokeyjedi]

? what did you find?
*edit* did u check the profile for cpu fan, in bios, if it is active or passive............that will make a massive difference.

Edited by Smokeyjedi, 30 January 2014 - 05:18 PM.

[Madw0lf]

Ok, so, no option I could find to change fan speed, which according to the HW monitor runs between 1800-1900 RPM. Same hardware monitor said MB was at 31C while CPU was 95C, so yea its not the case cooling. And I cant set the voltage below 1.1.... I think its looking like a new cooler

[Smokeyjedi]

Madw0lf, on 30 January 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

Ok, so, no option I could find to change fan speed, which according to the HW monitor runs between 1800-1900 RPM. Same hardware monitor said MB was at 31C while CPU was 95C, so yea its not the case cooling. And I cant set the voltage below 1.1.... I think its looking like a new cooler

Thats insane temps/oh snap, Personally, I would stuff that other CPU u said u have in it, to see if it will shoot right to redline temps and hold there.......ugh/ maybe that cpu is cooked and voltage bleeds internally?

[Madw0lf]

Smokeyjedi, on 30 January 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

Thats insane temps/oh snap, Personally, I would stuff that other CPU u said u have in it, to see if it will shoot right to redline temps and hold there.......ugh/ maybe that cpu is cooked and voltage bleeds internally?

Once it calms down, ie Im into Windows and not doing anything TOO intensive, it hovers between 45-60. Still high but not 90s

EDIT: Just checked, couldnt find anything about active fan or not, just "qfan" which is a setting to keep it quiet, I set it to performance....no change either way

EDIT2: Yea, the CPU I have available is a Celeron 420, which uses LGA775.... http://ark.intel.com...GHz-800-MHz-FSB Will try swapping that in tomorrow night or this weekend to see, and in the meantime start looking at some other solutions.

Edited by Madw0lf, 30 January 2014 - 06:01 PM.

[Catamount]

Yeah that's frighteningly high. Your idle temps are more like the load temps my E8400 displayed with a 20% overclock. It's defiitely worth seeing how the different CPU behaves.

Also, I will say that you're getting to the point with that hardware that I also agree with other posters who have suggested it might be getting time to consider a new system one way or the other, ASAP. Fixing this would settle you up for the short term, but assuming it's not a bad sensor, you've been beating that CPU to death with temperature and it's aging, so you may find that it won't be long before the decision on a new system is made for you. I'd at least be prepared for that.

Edited by Catamount, 31 January 2014 - 08:28 AM.

[Madw0lf]

Catamount, on 31 January 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

Yeah that's frighteningly high. Your idle temps are more like the load temps my E8400 displayed with a 20% overclock. It's defiitely worth seeing how the different CPU behaves.

Also, I will say that you're getting to the point with that hardware that I also agree with other posters who have suggested it might be getting time to consider a new system one way or the other, ASAP. Fixing this would settle you up for the short term, but assuming it's not a bad sensor, you've been beating that CPU to death with temperature and it's aging, so you may find that it won't be long before the decision on a new system is made for you. I'd at least be prepared for that.

Assuming Im feeling up to it tonight Ill swap in that Celeron.

Mentally and emotionally Ive been prepared to lose this system for a long time now, especially once I found out about the temp problems, for one I prefer to get as much life out of something as I can (ie drive it into the ground) for as cheap as I can. And for two explaining to the wife why I need to spend 4-600 bucks to replace a perfectly functional machine....lol.

On the question of replacement, If I got a new MB with PCI Express 3.0 x16 orPCI Express 2.0 x16, would, in theory, the 9600GT I have still work on it?

Edited by Madw0lf, 31 January 2014 - 09:41 AM.

[Catamount]

PCIE is backwards and forwards compatible, so your 9600GT will work fine. If you want something with a little more oomph for a cheap replacement, however, something like a used Radeon HD 5850 or 5870 can typically be had for $70-$100 and would be three or four times as fast.

In other words, if you have to start replacing stuff, we can make sure it's done within whatever budget you've got to work with, within reason, of course

[Madw0lf]

Catamount, on 31 January 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

PCIE is backwards and forwards compatible, so your 9600GT will work fine. If you want something with a little more oomph for a cheap replacement, however, something like a used Radeon HD 5850 or 5870 can typically be had for $70-$100 and would be three or four times as fast.

In other words, if you have to start replacing stuff, we can make sure it's done within whatever budget you've got to work with, within reason, of course

Ok thats great. Id priced out a basic rebuild/upgrade last night w/o a card, at around 400 bucks. Id rather for now just be able to get a better cooler for now though.

[Lord Letto]

Madw0lf, on 31 January 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

Ok thats great. Id priced out a basic rebuild/upgrade last night w/o a card, at around 400 bucks. Id rather for now just be able to get a better cooler for now though.

What Build?

Looking at PC Part Picker, I would choose this Build: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2L54e

it's over $600 though (Base Cost in the $730 Range), but it should be Good Quality I think and the CPU is OCable + a Great CPU Cooler to Cool the OCed CPU. No Card, Your 9600GT May or may not be better then the Integrated Intel HD 4000 Graphics

That Was a Intel Build, This is a AMD Build I just Made on PC Part Picker to go with it, also no card: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2L5sZ

Lower Base Cost ($620), But no integrated GPU so you would need to use your 9600GT unless you can find something better, I recommend looking for a 560TI (or AMD Equivalent) or Better around $90-$110.

the AMD Build is similar to mine except Slightly Different (Better CPU, FX-4300 while I have a FX-4100, Lower Wattage PSU But possibly better Rating, I have a OCZ 700 or 750 Watt PSU, Not sure if it's 80+ Rated, Plus I'm not sure when it comes to PSUs, but EVGA might be better than OCZ, and Windows 7 while i still have Windows 8.1 Preview).

Edited by Lord Letto, 31 January 2014 - 06:39 PM.

[mark v92]

I had the same problem not long ago. i used an AMD 8 core cpu with stock cooler and when the temp hit the 90c (which it constandly did) it would shut down. i dont know why my temp raised that much because the full year before that it worked normal.

anyway i bought a new cpu cooler (the artic freezer 13CO) which costs about 30 euro's and it solved the problem. 30 euro's might seem expensive but this is for an 8core cpu that runs on max a lot of the time for rendering. if you want a new cooler you can do a bit cheaper ofc.

still dont know what the problem was but the new cooler keeps it at 55c on max cpu power. (8x 4.2ghz)
so id recommend a new cheap cooler as its probebly the most easiest and cheapest way to solve it. just make sure you got the right socket that fits the cpu.
or buy a new budget pc

Edited by mark v92, 31 January 2014 - 07:11 PM.

[Madw0lf]

Lord Letto, on 31 January 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

What Build?

Looking at PC Part Picker, I would choose this Build: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2L54e

it's over $600 though (Base Cost in the $730 Range), but it should be Good Quality I think and the CPU is OCable + a Great CPU Cooler to Cool the OCed CPU. No Card, Your 9600GT May or may not be better then the Integrated Intel HD 4000 Graphics

That Was a Intel Build, This is a AMD Build I just Made on PC Part Picker to go with it, also no card: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2L5sZ

Lower Base Cost ($620), But no integrated GPU so you would need to use your 9600GT unless you can find something better, I recommend looking for a 560TI (or AMD Equivalent) or Better around $90-$110.

the AMD Build is similar to mine except Slightly Different (Better CPU, FX-4300 while I have a FX-4100, Lower Wattage PSU But possibly better Rating, I have a OCZ 700 or 750 Watt PSU, Not sure if it's 80+ Rated, Plus I'm not sure when it comes to PSUs, but EVGA might be better than OCZ, and Windows 7 while i still have Windows 8.1 Preview).

Nice site! Hadnt heard of that before....and taking out the parts I wouldnt be getting (IE case, drives, Windows) I got it to like 400 bucks

Just got a chance to do some work, had ordered the COoler Master Hyper 212 last week and it came in today. Shes now staying steady at 38C and has only spiked as far as 43 for like 2 seconds Thank you for your help everyone!

Now if I could just NOT be kicked off the servers every time I try to play