172 replies to this topic

[General Taskeen]

Damocles69, on 30 January 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Agreed. Head shots should not happen. Game needs to be about skill not RNG

'skill' already went out the window for MWO design. We roll virtual dice to fire UAC's, for example. Among other stupid things.

[3rdworld]

Roadkill, on 01 February 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

Are you sure it's plus? I was under the impression that it's 40 max damage and only at the point of impact. If there's nothing at the point of impact, the shell instead does splash damage that decreases with distance from the point of impact.

Or if it is in fact plus, I don't think it's possible for the directly hit target to also take splash damage from the same shell.

It is 40 per shell + 40 splash. So in theory taking a direct hit to your leg can cause 80 damage to that component from one of the shells.

[CrashieJ]

80 shots... 5 damage each, spread over a 5 second area

around 16 shots a second over a 200 meter radius.

enough to force people out of cover and cause sever damage at stationary targets, but not enough to cause people to go insane over pinpoint damage

[Varent]

so a few general thoughts on this. I liked some of the ideas so I felt I would post my own. Admitedly these are general thoughts ive gathered from other posts as well as my opinions.

If I was going to tweak with air/strikes and artillery this would be my overall flow chart all together.

1) Alter Command Console. Require it to be equipped in order to use any air strike or artillery. Increase the weight of this item by about 1-2 tons but also add in an additional ability when it is equiped you gain one more module slot.

This makes it a balancing chore now with light mechs. Currently light mechs can pile on a ton of air strikes and artillery. Now they would have to perhaps balance it with losing some weapons in order to fit the command console on. However its made up for abit since they can now perhaps also fit in air strike/artillery accuracy module if they so wish or just more utility overall with modules in general. In addition it just generally makes Command Console have a use as well.

2) Take out the clunky point and click use of artilery and instead make it use the tactical map. Have the tactical map look different with command console and allow for 'X' marks on it as the last known locations of enemies so you have an idea of the layout of things. When you use artillery or an air strike you call it in and select a location on the map. It takes a few moments to call in said artillery in wich you are looking at the screen. Perhaps just 3-5 seconds. Just so as a player it ties you up a little so its not so quick.

This will create a more immersive feel and allow players from even a novice stand point to use these items without simply tossing them at an empty hill side or hitting there friends in the back. It also will help reduce the amount of jump snipers since it would more easily go over top of a hill and behind it. So this would have an added effect on changing those that just want to hump a hill side.

3) definetly increase overall global cooldown. I think right now its too spamable on one area. So that would definetly be a good change.

dont even feel that needs further explanation.

[WarHippy]

Deathlike, on 01 February 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

I'm not sure how "pointing to an area" to direct the fire of arty/airstrike to "get a lucky headshot" is "more skilled" than "accidentally" shooting the head of the mech with direct fire.

Whatever, I guess standards need to be lowered for shorter TTK.

Who said it was more skilled to drop arty/airstrike than to get a lucky shot on someone's cockpit? Both are lucky shots and really no different from each other so I'm not sure what your point is other than implying that people who don't agree with your stance on this must have lower standards than you.

[Deathlike]

WarHippy, on 01 February 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

Who said it was more skilled to drop arty/airstrike than to get a lucky shot on someone's cockpit? Both are lucky shots and really no different from each other so I'm not sure what your point is other than implying that people who don't agree with your stance on this must have lower standards than you.

When you're aiming to hit the CT, the fact that it hits the head for most mechs (there are exceptions like the Tbolt or even the Atlas - the Atlas's left eye is the cockpit) is generally considered a random-like event.

When one launches an airstrike within the vicinity of a target, there's a lot more randomness at work, but I get a lot more "leniency" due to the nature of the arty/airstrike where I place it. Your margin for error is a lot less when done right.

With respect to a direct fire hit to the head, the margin for error is far larger.

That's not an opinion, unless you can better quantify that assessment.

[WarHippy]

Deathlike, on 01 February 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

When you're aiming to hit the CT, the fact that it hits the head for most mechs (there are exceptions like the Tbolt or even the Atlas - the Atlas's left eye is the cockpit) is generally considered a random-like event.

When one launches an airstrike within the vicinity of a target, there's a lot more randomness at work, but I get a lot more "leniency" due to the nature of the arty/airstrike where I place it. Your margin for error is a lot less when done right.

With respect to a direct fire hit to the head, the margin for error is far larger.

That's not an opinion, unless you can better quantify that assessment.

Well I was looking at it as if someone walked around a corner and took a snap shot in the general direction of enemy mechs and got a cockpit kill, or when someone is taking a shot at one person and someone else steps into view taking the shot to the cockpit. Those would be the kind of lucky random shots that at least for me are no different than dropping arty/airstrikes and getting a lucky cockpit kill. As for the "leniency" of arty/airstrikes that goes for the target as well because they at least have the chance to move out of the way.

[Khobai]

Quote

Who said it was more skilled to drop arty/airstrike than to get a lucky shot on someone's cockpit?

lucky shot = aim at target, hit lucky spot

artillery = aim at ground, hit lucky target, hit lucky spot

At least when you make lucky shots you actually have to aim at the target.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 01 February 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

lucky shot = aim at target, hit lucky spot

artillery = aim at ground, hit lucky target, hit lucky spot

At least when you make lucky shots you actually have to aim at the target.

You missed your target and just luckily hit something else. There is no difference there.

And just to repeat myself, this topic is already at this point:

Edited by Mystere, 01 February 2014 - 04:05 PM.

[Roadkill]

3rdworld, on 01 February 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

It is 40 per shell + 40 splash. So in theory taking a direct hit to your leg can cause 80 damage to that component from one of the shells.

Then have I just never taken a direct hit from an artillery shell before? I rarely get hit by artillery at all, so that's entirely possible.

80 damage would strip all of the armor off of the leg of every single one of my Mechs. I've never gone more than yellow-orange from artillery, and most of the time it's just yellow (on multiple panels). Even 40 damage would turn the legs on most of my Mechs red. Given what I've seen on the paper doll, I'd guess that I've never taken more than 20 damage to a single location from artillery and that's being generous. It's probably more like 10.

[3rdworld]

Roadkill, on 01 February 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

Then have I just never taken a direct hit from an artillery shell before? I rarely get hit by artillery at all, so that's entirely possible.

80 damage would strip all of the armor off of the leg of every single one of my Mechs. I've never gone more than yellow-orange from artillery, and most of the time it's just yellow (on multiple panels). Even 40 damage would turn the legs on most of my Mechs red. Given what I've seen on the paper doll, I'd guess that I've never taken more than 20 damage to a single location from artillery and that's being generous. It's probably more like 10.

The splash a lot of times doesn't do much. It is when you take a direct hit, that your mech is completely hammered. On the CTR vs BSK match streamed the other day, a single arty took a fully armored RT off of a highlander. That is in the neighborhood of 100 damage to a single location.

[YueFei]

Roadkill, on 01 February 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

Then have I just never taken a direct hit from an artillery shell before? I rarely get hit by artillery at all, so that's entirely possible.

80 damage would strip all of the armor off of the leg of every single one of my Mechs. I've never gone more than yellow-orange from artillery, and most of the time it's just yellow (on multiple panels). Even 40 damage would turn the legs on most of my Mechs red. Given what I've seen on the paper doll, I'd guess that I've never taken more than 20 damage to a single location from artillery and that's being generous. It's probably more like 10.

When you take a direct hit, it does some serious damage. Someone once dropped one around the corner out of my LOS as I was approaching. I'm guessing he used Seismic to see me coming, and dropped the strike so that I'd run into it. Very clever on his part. I turned the corner to see the smoke already billowing high, and took a couple direct hits from the strike, and lost the right shoulder and left arm on my HBK-4SP.

I suppose if you were really competitive and paranoid, you'd have a scout get eyes on those kinds of corners before turning them yourself. Just in case someone pops a strike there. That way your scout buddy can let you know there's a strike inbound and you can veer away.

[Jman5]

3rdworld, on 01 February 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

It is 40 per shell + 40 splash. So in theory taking a direct hit to your leg can cause 80 damage to that component from one of the shells.

There is just no way this is true. You realize that would be 800 potential damage per artillery? You would almost always be killing multiple mechs every time you dropped one. 2,000 damage games from artillery + airstrike + regular damage would be commonplace.

Every shell is capped at 40 damage and that includes the AoE effect which has a damage drop off the further away from the impact you are. What's more, is that the damage seems to split up among the people caught in the blast. So one guy might take 5 damage from one shell, while another guy takes 7, and a third guy takes 3. Finally, the explosion tends to split up among your various components. So even if you take the lion share of damage from an artillery shell, it's going to be spread all over your body.

Again, keep in mind that there are 10 shells from an artillery with a 60 meter area of effect radius and a 30 meter blast radius per artillery. There is just no way you are ever getting 40+40 damage per shell even on off chances. You would be insta-killing fresh mechs left and right. Instead of what we see now are people losing random components that were damaged or hit multiple times, finishing off half dead mechs, and getting the occasional lucky headshot on particular mechs.

I think what you are seeing, are the occasional ammo explosions that artillery can trigger. These will give you multiple and quick component destructions and inflate your damage numbers significantly.

I run a program called mech collect which gives me an accurate idea of where my damage comes from. Even fully upgraded, you almost always do less than 200 damage per strike even on good ones with lots of hits. In fact, it's often less than 100.