18 replies to this topic

[Ertur]

originally titled: Oh #$%! We're Down Two...

tl;dr summary: sound tactics can sometimes make up for starting with two discos, with some tactical suggestions by weight.
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As anyone who has played the game for more than a few drops knows, it is not rare for a match to start with one or two disconnects just as the match starts. While once in a while these disconnects will simply result in an 11v11 match-up, more frequently one side is going to be down by one or two mechs at the start.

This does not mean, however, that the match is automatically lost. By sticking together, the team that is down can create local situations where they outnumber the larger team. Having a greater number of mechs in a small area is better than having a greater number of mechs that are spread out all over.

By weight class what you should do :

Lights -- scout a bit and then return to the group; repeat. Don't engage, and if engaged try to get the enemy to pursue you back to the rest of your team. In assault, capping may be worthwhile to try to split the enemy team, but also may just get you killed early and make things worse. DO NOT DIE. The dead are of no use to anyone. When the main body engages, look for targets on the flanks and rear while they are distracted.

Mediums -- stay with a heavy, provide fire support on their target and intercept any lights that try to hit the heavies' flanks and rear. While sometimes Cicada's are lumped in with lights, in a situation where the team is down I would suggest acting more like a medium, at least until the numbers even up.

Heavies -- stay with the assaults. Don't over-pursue flankers, if there is a choice between shooting a medium, light, or heavy, shoot the heavy. I would suggest shooting enemy heavies before shooting enemy assaults, but that's very situational and not a hard and fast rule. Just be aware that choosing between heavy and assault targets is not a hard rule, but choosing between those and mediums and lights pretty much is. Do not get tunnel vision.

Assaults -- you are the nucleus of the formation, and the point of the spear in any attack. If there are two or more assaults, then form up in no more than two groups, and even if there are two groups they should remain in contact with each other for mutual support. If you are alone then you are doing it wrong.

Lastly, in a situation where local superiority is established, then attack. Don't under-commit, don't over-think, just go in there and shoot stuff until it goes boom. During the attack don't leave your assaults behind. If you need to look more than 90 degrees to either side to see an assault then you need to slow up to let them give (and take) fire*.

While most of this is good advice in any situation (or seems that way to me), it is more important when starting down. By staying close, local numerical superiority can be established early, which can swing the odds back in your favor.

edit to break up text and rename as suggested below

*"Slow up" doesn't mean "stop," unless it's behind cover. However, you can also slow your advance by zigzagging relative to the path of the advance, which should allow your assaults to keep up.

Edited by Ertur, 30 January 2014 - 05:29 PM.

[Darth Futuza]

Good advice for all the fools who give up when they realize they're two down. Giving up is the first step to losing. Also because you didn't really mention it, odds are that if you have two disconnects on your team, the enemy has 3 afks.

Ertur, on 30 January 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

tl;dr summary: sound tactics can sometimes make up for starting with two discos, with some tactical suggestions by weight.

I feel confident that if proper tactics are employed by communicating decent players, just 1 lance could beat out an entire full team. Tactics really do make that much of a difference.

[luxebo]

Very good advice, should be taken. However, spreading the text out and also maybe renaming the title can be better. Thought this was a qq thread for a sec before I read through.

[Ertur]

luxebo, on 30 January 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Very good advice, should be taken. However, spreading the text out and also maybe renaming the title can be better. Thought this was a qq thread for a sec before I read through.

Hopefully this is improved now. Thanks for the advice.

[JC Daxion]

I don't know why people give up if they are down 1 or 2.. the other night we i had a game, and we ended up being down 4 people right after the start... (people just died really fast) 5 of us stuck together, and we ended up flipping it, and winning 12 to 6... as an incredible match for us.


But i always love winning when the sides are not the same, and if you loose, you can always think, well we were down two to start...

[Koniving]

Discos.. Disconnects. <.< Lol. Was wondering if I'd see a video about a randomly encountering a lance doing a disco dance.

Anyway, myself and some others were playing the other night and saw we had some disconnects. We braved it anyway. If you begin by giving up you will lose. When you are short on players, it is imperative to get that much more serious about winning.

I'm one for the "lastly part." Once local superiority is established, commit and blow things up. The trouble is when the assaults refuse to join because they have either under-committed or refused to commit. That's when I'm sad. Every push requires the assaults to take action. If they do not, the push is very likely to fail.

[Sug]

When it was 8v8 if the other team had discos I would either sit the match out or quit to make the odds a bit more even.

Now though 8 of the 12 people on the team are usually worthless anyways so i just play.

[ValdnadHartagga]

And always remember to yell "Typical [faction] treachery!" when someone discos.

[Xenoid]

Been noticing quite a few dc's lately, or the matchmaker not filling all positions to one team.

But I agree, regardless the dc's, you should always push on. Been in several matches where we've been down two and still won.

However, sound tactics certainly helps. The problem is, often suggestions for tactics are often ignored. For example, was playing on Terra Therma a few nights ago with two mechs down. I suggested we avoid the center and loop around the back in a group. Nobody acknowledged the advice, and chose to march straight into the center. Then, the other team did just what I had suggested to my team and came in from behind and decimated us.

[Kjudoon]

happens so often for a variety of reasons, mostly... at least from my experience, someone's client crashed on their end or couldn't get the link up.

On only a handful of instances have I see people deliberately C-Bill farming by doing discons. Often you quickly learn if you do that deliberately, it's not as profitable as participating even at the speed you waste in matches. 25k/100xp isn't worth a lot with the amount of work you need to get it now.

Maybe a better response would be to let them know they're wasting their time more than anything else.

Edited by Kjudoon, 31 January 2014 - 09:45 AM.

[Nikkoru]

Kjudoon, on 31 January 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

happens so often for a variety of reasons, mostly... at least from my experience, someone's client crashed on their end or couldn't get the link up.

I know my game just crashed three matches in a row. I am running the repair tool right now.

I know that I would feel pretty offended if everyone simply assumed that I was farming. Seems kind of an unfair thing to assume. I want to play, dang it, it's the game that won't let me.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Had a match a few days ago where we had one disconnect right before the one minute countdown ended, one that had a ping of 0 and one open slot. So we were 9 v 12 down the open slot, the highlander that disconnected and an Atlas. On Frozen colony Night.

The worst part was the two mechs just charging into the other team so we were 7 v 12 at about 1:30 into the match, both were heavies. So what did we do, charged over the ridge by the drop ship while most of the other team were going around the other way and we just mowed down their LRM boats and one other mech so now it is 7 v8. Their DDC decided to charge up the hill by the end of the dropship, but I had enough distance, LRMs with TAG and Artemis so his CT was gone quick. Since I was still up on the hill with the three of the other team in front of me, I knew it was time to run. So with 7 v7 my ears almost shot off my team caught the other teams three in the open with no where to hide. Then it was 6 v 4. As the other 4 started to come over the ridge I just started firing till one went down, then pick a new target. In the end only me with no LRMs, one ear and 3 ML's with two other mechs both smoking were left standing almost side by side.

at this point everyone that was spectating was congratulating us and we them.

There is glory in winning the 9 v 12.



Now to the serious part,

1. I know some people will lose internet connections either due to WIFI or just a bad connection. (It's happened to me.)

2. I also know some people will just connect and disconnect to farm C-Bills. (I am between hanging them and well....)

3. Then some cowards that do not like a challenge and disconnect when the odds are bad or when most of the team has died. (will not comment due to graphic nature)


Having the random disconnect is not bad, it makes you try harder and more glory. (Also PGI more XP and C-Bills would help for underdog wins.)

Solutions,
1. PGI issues some sort of under maned win recognitions for pilots. (Like may be a hanging medal after three or four down.)
2. Have a bonuses for XP and C-Bills for under maned wins. Depending on how under maned. (none at one down, X2 at two, X3 at 3 and so on.)

[Ertur]

Barkem Squirrel, on 31 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

Had a match a few days ago where we had one disconnect right before the one minute countdown ended, one that had a ping of 0 and one open slot. So we were 9 v 12 down the open slot, the highlander that disconnected and an Atlas. On Frozen colony Night.

The worst part was the two mechs just charging into the other team so we were 7 v 12 at about 1:30 into the match, both were heavies. So what did we do, charged over the ridge by the drop ship while most of the other team were going around the other way and we just mowed down their LRM boats and one other mech so now it is 7 v8. Their DDC decided to charge up the hill by the end of the dropship, but I had enough distance, LRMs with TAG and Artemis so his CT was gone quick. Since I was still up on the hill with the three of the other team in front of me, I knew it was time to run. So with 7 v7 my ears almost shot off my team caught the other teams three in the open with no where to hide. Then it was 6 v 4. As the other 4 started to come over the ridge I just started firing till one went down, then pick a new target. In the end only me with no LRMs, one ear and 3 ML's with two other mechs both smoking were left standing almost side by side.

This is textbook, exactly what I mean; and also includes a great description of what not to do.
What not to do: LEEEEERRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYY into the enemy. That gives them a 12 to 1 advantage. It won't end well.
What to do: maneuver into a position of local superiority to break up the match into a series of smaller engagements where you have the advantage. This is exactly what you did:
7v4
7v1
7v3
6v4
At each stage your team had the numerical advantage, despite being disadvantaged over-all.

Thanks for the excellent example. Most triumphant.

One thing, I can't see PGI having bonuses for being undermanned; I can see premades deliberately dropping someone from a match to benefit the other three, taking turns to get the bonuses for each. There's no way to tell if someone drops because of internet goofiness or if they pull the plug on their router on purpose. If something gets rewarded, then it gets incentivized, and people may choose to do it.

[Davinelulinvega]

2 down, so what?

[Koniving]

Down 2? Push on and win anyway. Last few minutes of a match where it's 10 versus 12.

(Linked before the video has finished uploading, it'll be ready once there's a picture.)
Video recorded of a match not even 5 minutes ago.

Still working toward that Orion VA, Bacon. It'll take a bit.

Ertur, on 31 January 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

One thing, I can't see PGI having bonuses for being undermanned; I can see premades deliberately dropping someone from a match to benefit the other three, taking turns to get the bonuses for each. There's no way to tell if someone drops because of internet goofiness or if they pull the plug on their router on purpose. If something gets rewarded, then it gets incentivized, and people may choose to do it.

We already get bonuses for being undermanned, assuming you win. The "Salvage" is only spread to the players who are present at the end of the match, on the winning side.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Koniving, on 01 February 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

We already get bonuses for being undermanned, assuming you win. The "Salvage" is only spread to the players who are present at the end of the match, on the winning side.

Good point, hadn't though of that. I will have to use that as my new rallying cry....More salvage for the rest of us!!!

Though I really like my current one....Form up into a ball and seek out the red smoke!!!!

[Darth Futuza]

Koniving, on 01 February 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

We already get bonuses for being undermanned, assuming you win. The "Salvage" is only spread to the players who are present at the end of the match, on the winning side.

Although this is true, more bonuses never would hurt.

[Koniving]

I miss closed beta. There was all kinds of fun things, including the Trial of Uneven Forces. Turned a completely unfair roflstomp into an arena.

[Ertur]

Just got out of a match where we had a fail-to-drop at the beginning. Someone -- not me -- typed in "down one, play tight," to which I replied "stay together." Along with two other players, and the original guy.

Tourmaline, skirmish.
Other team had two mediums go far left, to where our team's cap would be in assault. Me and a cicada kept them locked and occupied while everyone else converged and put lrms on target. It quickly went from 2 (plus lrm's)v2 to 4v2, our advantage. No orders needed, it just happened. It was a thing of beauty. The rest of the enemy team filed into the area in pretty small groups, allowing for focus fire on them, so the main group stayed there. Even with the disco, we had a slight advantage with the starting tonnage (35 tons); so after we went up 2-0 we had a huge weight advantage, though obviously we didn't fully know that until the match was over. I suspect we also had an experience advantage since, like I said, no orders really needed to go out; people just seemed to know what to do.