51 replies to this topic

[NRP]

I'm not sure I agree that the Dragon Slayer is better than the 9S/9B. I would argue that the Misery is better than the other Stalkers though.

[Cyberiad]

Terciel1976, on 31 January 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

If you buy, then sell, then buy three variants of a mech, ending with the one you want, you only need one mechbay to master a mech.

Using this approach, you could have a fully kitted and mastered JR7-F, SHD-2D2, CTF-3D and HGN-733C in your four free mechbays without ever spending a cent. It wouldn't be fast, but it's possible and if you can't compete in (at least) one of those four, you just can't compete.

No P2W here.

As long as there are gameplay altering items that can only be purchased with money (Ilya Muromets, Misery & all hero mechs) it's P2W. All of the true free 2 play games (Dota 2, League of Legends, etc..) don't have anything purchasable with real money that affects gameplay. As long as MWO has a mechbay limit for free players and gameplay altering items, it will never be as popular as League of Legends or Dota 2.

[NRP]

SiliconLife, on 31 January 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

As long as there are gameplay altering items that can only be purchased with money (Ilya Muromets, Misery & all hero mechs) it's P2W.

Please explain how these heros are "game altering".

Making statements like this makes you sound terribly uninformed.

[Cyberiad]

NRP, on 31 January 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Please explain how these heros are "game altering".

Making statements like this makes you sound terribly uninformed.

They have different hardpoints. Ilya muromets has 3 hardpoints that can fit UAC5s, the Misery can fit a ballistic weapon where all other stalkers can't fit them. The bottom line is that they affect gameplay - they allow paying players to have unique hardpoints on certain chassis. In league of legends this would be analogous to having a paid champion with different spells.

Before people start making angry replies to this I would first of all like to say that I like this game and enjoy playing it, but just because I like a certain game doesn't mean I should ignore reality. The truth right now is that this is not a real free-to-play game and more along the lines of a freemium game like World of Tanks or any of the games from Nexon (Combat Arms, Maple Story, etc) where real-money purchases will affect gameplay. I have purchased hero mechs myself (Ilya Muromets, Heavy Metal, Dragon Slayer, just to name a few) and they are unique mechs, with unique gameplay that can only be purchased with real money. A real free-to-play game like Dota 2 or League of Legends does not have any champions or anything that can affect gameplay that can only be purchased with real money.

Edited by SiliconLife, 31 January 2014 - 02:22 PM.

[NRP]

SiliconLife, on 31 January 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

They have different hardpoints. Ilya muromets has 3 hardpoints that can fit UAC5s, the Misery can fit a ballistic weapon where all other stalkers can't fit them. The bottom line is that they affect gameplay - they allow paying players to have unique hardpoints on certain chassis. In league of legends this would be analogous to having a paid champion with different spells.

Meh. The Ilya is outclassed in every way by the Cataphract 3D. That's not to say the Ilya is bad because it isn't. But it ain't no 3D.

And the Misery is good now only because of the huge tax PGI has imposed on energy builds. Back in the day before ghost heat and when SRMs were mean, the Misery wouldn't stand out nearly as much.

The only hero you can perhaps say is a "game changer" is the Pretty Baby, but only in so far as you'll have to change your underpants after a game when you get soloed by a lone Commando.

[Cyberiad]

NRP, on 31 January 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Meh. The Ilya is outclassed in every way by the Cataphract 3D. That's not to say the Ilya is bad because it isn't. But it ain't no 3D.

And the Misery is good now only because of the huge tax PGI has imposed on energy builds. Back in the day before ghost heat and when SRMs were mean, the Misery wouldn't stand out nearly as much.

The only hero you can perhaps say is a "game changer" is the Pretty Baby, but only in so far as you'll have to change your underpants after a game when you get soloed by a lone Commando.

I'm not arguing against the Ilya being better or worse than other mechs. All I'm saying is that it is a real-money only mech that alters gameplay. Real free-to-play games don't have any real-money purchases that alters gameplay, especially not in a PvP game. As long as it has unique hardpoints it's gameplay is different than any of the mechs you can get without real money. This alone makes it P2W. It doesn't have to be perceived as being better or worse than other mechs, as long as it has different hard-points, its P2W.

EDIT: perhaps the word P2W is incorrect here as you don't get an outright gameplay advantage from using hero mechs but the fact that they have unique hard-points do mean that they affect gameplay whether it be for better or worse, who knows. This separates MWO from true free-to-play games like League of Legends or Dota 2 however.

Edited by SiliconLife, 31 January 2014 - 02:37 PM.

[Void Angel]

8Chaos8, on 31 January 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

this game is free, but is it possible to make a strong mech without spending money? i play MWO for some times but i die very fast (within few min), and i see other mechs take lots of damage and they keep going on! i like to know can i compete with other players without spending money or im wasting my time?! thx.

If you like the game, you will want to spend money occasionally to buy more 'mech bays. But there is no aspect of this game that is truly "pay to win," and you will be limited in competition only by your skill and understanding of the game. Even hero 'mechs such as the Ilya Muromets don't have a significant enough impact to be notable as 'must-haves.' The game is well balanced in this regard, and any attempt to introduce real pay to win concepts (such as cash-bought consumable modules which are superior) has been met with the forum equivalent of labor riots.

PS: the advice to spectate other players in a match is good - but remember! What you see spectating is not exactly what is happening on the other person's screen. Host-state rewind doesn't care about people watching, so you'll notice odd things from time to time (e.g. people seem to miss, but their crosshairs turn red, indicating a hit, and their target is damaged or dies.)

Edited by Void Angel, 31 January 2014 - 02:37 PM.

[Corison]

SiliconLife, on 31 January 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

Real free-to-play games don't have any real-money purchases that alters gameplay, especially not in a PvP game.

Real eh? Not sure where your getting your idea's from but they don't match up with real reality.

Free to Play, means just that... The game is free to play. Nothing more, anything else someone choose to read into that is up to them. The best FTP games have most if not all content available but generate revenue with perks/flavor items which is what MWO does. Heck, even the original World of Tanks was "free to play" even though you could buy ammo that gave you a VERY significant advantage. F2P and P2W are not mutually exclusive. Now P2W isn't even close to this game. P2W implies you must pay to be competitive (not different.) MWO doesn't have any P2W components yet. Accelerators yes, flavor, yes... p2w? Not yet.

Your welcome to review the F2P Wiki but really not required.

[Cyberiad]

Corison, on 31 January 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

Real eh? Not sure where your getting your idea's from but they don't match up with real reality.

Free to Play, means just that... The game is free to play. Nothing more, anything else someone choose to read into that is up to them. The best FTP games have most if not all content available but generate revenue with perks/flavor items which is what MWO does. Heck, even the original World of Tanks was "free to play" even though you could buy ammo that gave you a VERY significant advantage. F2P and P2W are not mutually exclusive. Now P2W isn't even close to this game. P2W implies you must pay to be competitive (not different.) MWO doesn't have any P2W components yet. Accelerators yes, flavor, yes... p2w? Not yet.

Your welcome to review the F2P Wiki but really not required.

I'll retract what I said about P2W then. But I believe the popularity of Dota 2 and League of Legends are due to the fact that none of the paid items affect gameplay whereas World of Tanks and MWO will never be as popular as League since it limits free players with tank/mechbays as well has having paid items that affect gameplay.

[Void Angel]

Corison, He's obviously defining "real F2P" as "Free to play with no pay to win elements." You're not giving fair treatment to his argument when you resort to playing semantic games instead of responding to his ideas. I happen to agree with you that there is no 'must-have' MC purchase that is required to be competitive - but disagreeing with an idea without really dealing with opposing reasoning is a good way to lose an argument before it's even begun.

I think we can all agree that any benefit from Hero 'mechs (the only MC purchase with a direct gameplay effect) is small and tenuous enough to be safely discounted. While I've seen hero mechs in 12-mans, they're far from ubiquitous. I'm not certain that debating the minutae of how much an unnoticeable difference may or may not matter, or speculation on whether the micropayment structure of MWO will make it less popular in the long run, is particularly helpful to the OP - who just wants to know if he's going to feel like he's punished for not buying loads of MC. =)

[Voivode]

Victor Morson, on 31 January 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

The reason the Pretty Baby is trash, it's an inferior Awesome 9M, which is already inferior to the Victor, Battlemaster, Red Rider BB guns and harsh language.

It's like the Golden Boy - it's just a crippled, gimped KTO-18, not something unique and good.

I disagree! The 9M has some significant disadvantages compared to the Pretty Baby. First, all the missile slots are 2 tube setups, which is only ideal for SSRM2s. Second, the center torso has 4 hardpoints and only two crit slots, meaning that some of your hardpoints must go unused by design. I think people want the Awesome to be that lumbering assault that face tanks the enemy too much and won't let it be the nimble weapon platform that it is. I don't try to face tank in my Pretty Baby because, yes, I will die quickly. But I can, and do, use my speed to get behind an engaged enemy.

[Shatterpoint]

I've spent rl money on a few mechs and trinkets, my best performing mechs are all ones purchased with in-game currency.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Shatterpoint, on 31 January 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

I've spent rl money on a few mechs and trinkets, my best performing mechs are all ones purchased with in-game currency.

Adding to the above... all of the Hero mechs give something up for what advantages they get:
For example:
Misery gets the Ballistic slot, but gives up all missile bay doors - losing the damage reduction those give.
Boar's Head gives up both secondary slots for Ballistic and Missiles... for two more Energy slots and a higher engine cap.

[Koniving]

On MechBays, my own worked out between $1.25 and $1.19 a piece. But that's because when I do buy MC, I get the largest packages for the most I can get for my buck, and then 'ration' it out over time. But with those sales it's really hard not to get cosmetic fun stuff.

But yes. Eventually, somewhere down the line, you will come across the notion that 4 mechbays simply are not enough. Really it's the only real time that you might even feel compelled to "need" to buy something on here.

...Personally, I have 100 mechbays now. ....It still isn't enough.

....need...more....mechbays...


(You can see the mechbay count to the right. To take a gander at my mech count, subtract the "free" bays from the total. 100 - 10 = 90. I've sold well over 40 mechs since starting. Rebought several of them later on.)

Edited by Koniving, 31 January 2014 - 08:01 PM.

[8Chaos8]

Spheroid, on 31 January 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

I can recommend some builds. What is your C-bill balance?

i have a mech (BJ-3) and 5.5000.000 C-bill

[N E R E V A R]

Maerawn, on 31 January 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

99.9% of the time its not the loadout, armor, or tonnage of that mech, that keeps a mech going when getting torn apart. Its the pilots ability to spread that damage, through torso twisting, maneuvering, tactical retreating and use of cover. Even the notoriously impossible to kill Centurion, can be killed at 80% if the pilot of said mech never twists. Its not that these players paid money to the game to live longer, its they have honed there battle ability to allow them to remain alive as long as possible. Practice, Torso twisting (turing your torso away from looking directly at the target) when weapons are on cooldown, stay with heavier teammates (they tend to get shot first especially atlai), never get tunnel vision (that one kill is not worth dying over), and try to rarely get caught in the open field (that is like christmas, thanksgiving, easter, forth of july, birthday extravaganza all rolled into one for LRM boats)

LISTEN TO THIS GUY.

[8Chaos8]

CapperDeluxe, on 31 January 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Getting a good mech is more about knowing which mechs and weapons are good and which you work best with, as opposed to which you bought with $$. If you screwed up and bought a not-so-good mech with your free cadet bonus then you'd have to grind a bit to get the next mech most likely, or start a new pilot and spend the free bonus CBills more wisely. Don't feel bad though, you can't really be expected to know these things without reading, asking or being told!

thank you for reply, how can i start a new pilot? there is a option at login window "create new user" but it takes me to my profile and i cant do any thing further!! thx.

[Voivode]

You will need to hit logout and then create new user.

Logout should be at the top right.

Edited by Voivode, 01 February 2014 - 09:07 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Koniving, on 31 January 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

(You can see the mechbay count to the right. To take a gander at my mech count, subtract the "free" bays from the total. 100 - 10 = 90. I've sold well over 40 mechs since starting. Rebought several of them later on.)

I would not have guessed you were that space poor! Those c-bills lol

[Koniving]

Roughneck45, on 01 February 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

I would not have guessed you were that space poor! Those c-bills lol

Costs a lot to manage all those mechs, and then all the tweaks and experiments I do. It eats up cash as fast as I can make it.

Just imagine where I'd be with repair and rearm as it was originally.