37 replies to this topic

[Krujiente]

Military units also get the idea of trigger discipline. If you need it not jam, say a brawl where you need to keep your damage output up to avoid losing. You wait out the cooldown. the ultra extrashot/jam trade off is for getting extra damage when you're in a relatively safe position
if you're holding down the button and not waiting out the cooldown period in a brawl and you die because your gun jams. You will hear me laughing at you from space. SPACE. This is the equivalent of a tank cannon double tapping instantly of course its gonna stove pipe pretty frequently.

Ragna Rokker, on 31 January 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

I'd just like to point out that NO modern military anywhere, ever, would find a weapon system as unreliable as the UAC5 acceptable. It spends more time recovering from a jam than it does firing.

Thats because the ultra shot is optional OPTIONAL... Optional.

I am tired of people complaining about how MILITARY DOES THIS AND MILITARY DOES THAT and that's never even TRIED to research what happens to guns in extreme conditions.
http://madogre.com/?p=174
Militaries have used gun thats jam and explode at inopportune times for centuries.
Did you know if you let a closed bolt rifle get too hot the champered round can cook off and potentially inflict horrible damage to you?
We're not even dealing with real military, the real military went to go play Knights and castle beyond the periphery a thousand odd years ago, we're dealing with crazy power hungry nobles that can barely produce parts trying to keep these weapons armed and repaired and do not really care about a Mechwarrior's safety.

Edited by Krujiente, 01 February 2014 - 05:56 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ragna Rokker, on 31 January 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

I'd just like to point out that NO modern military anywhere, ever, would find a weapon system as unreliable as the UAC5 acceptable. It spends more time recovering from a jam than it does firing.

The Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) felt like our Ultra cannons when I was firing one! And it could take longer to unjam in the heat of the moment.

[Krujiente]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 February 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

The Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) felt like our Ultra cannons when I was firing one! And it could take longer to unjam in the heat of the moment.

******* right? I bought a mini-14 because they're known to be ridiculously rugged. I never seen it jam, just sometimes some of my more ancient magazines won't eject. A MAGAZINE being placed wrong or being inferior chinese magazine on my buddies AK would cause it jam. That's right. Kalashnikov will jam if one part is kinda crappy. I can't imagine what the IS is working with but I assume it can't be pretty. Especially since the Ultra is basically a giant sized belt fed automatic grenade launcher.

Sidenote: I rock with Ultras. I ruin things with Ultras, I decided I won't use more than 1 ultra BECAUSE of how good I find them. (unless its a Jager because they're pretty vulnerable)

Edited by Krujiente, 01 February 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Ragna Rokker, on 31 January 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

I'd just like to point out that NO modern military anywhere, ever, would find a weapon system as unreliable as the UAC5 acceptable. It spends more time recovering from a jam than it does firing.

All general purpose machine guns over heat and jam if fired constantly as do most submachine guns, ok its extreme in this case, but its as mentioned a game, I personally think there are far larger and obvious design fauls in mechs than the ultra, and far more dangerous from a pure engineering example, but reality suspends for the sake of palyability

[Joseph Mallan]

Not exactly, Depleted Uranium Penetrators are different from a belt fed Grenade.

[Wittyname Terribad]

Ragna Rokker, on 31 January 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

I'd just like to point out that NO modern military anywhere, ever, would find a weapon system as unreliable as the UAC5 acceptable. It spends more time recovering from a jam than it does firing.

Maybe so, but results speak for themselves
3UAC5, none of this chainfire nonsense. All 3 on l-click, hold the button until the bad guy falls over

[Joseph Mallan]

Your boating a weapon does not make the weapon, on its own, a good or bad weapon. Bring enough Machine guns an you can do good damage too! Look at the Piranha! 12 2 point guns can ablate armor pretty fast. The old saying to much of a good thing is bad for you is what you demonstrated.

I do like the level of damage you delivered while doing that bad thing though!

[Wittyname Terribad]

It can be argued either way, really. 3 UAC5 can do that. I've got screens of 700-900 in Victors with 2UAC5 2LL, I've got one of 1400 in a DDC with 2 UAC5 2LL. The weapon is no ineffective with it's current balance, is all I'm saying

[Krujiente]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 February 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

Not exactly, Depleted Uranium Penetrators are different from a belt fed Grenade.

The feed system on it (along with all auto-cannons) is probably pretty similar, the only real difference I can feel is the payload. Sides if you use the AC20 it sure feels like a grenade launcher :V

Edited by Krujiente, 01 February 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

Krujiente, on 01 February 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Military units also get the idea of trigger discipline. If you need it not jam, say a brawl where you need to keep your damage output up to avoid losing. You wait out the cooldown. the ultra extrashot/jam trade off is for getting extra damage when you're in a relatively safe position
if you're holding down the button and not waiting out the cooldown period in a brawl and you die because your gun jams. You will hear me laughing at you from space. SPACE. This is the equivalent of a tank cannon double tapping instantly of course its gonna stove pipe pretty frequently.


Thats because the ultra shot is optional OPTIONAL... Optional.

I am tired of people complaining about how MILITARY DOES THIS AND MILITARY DOES THAT and that's never even TRIED to research what happens to guns in extreme conditions.
http://madogre.com/?p=174
Militaries have used gun thats jam and explode at inopportune times for centuries.
Did you know if you let a closed bolt rifle get too hot the champered round can cook off and potentially inflict horrible damage to you?
We're not even dealing with real military, the real military went to go play Knights and castle beyond the periphery a thousand odd years ago, we're dealing with crazy power hungry nobles that can barely produce parts trying to keep these weapons armed and repaired and do not really care about a Mechwarrior's safety.

I've never had my M16a2 or a4 jam on me in combat. Perhaps because I took extra time to clean them, minimal coatings of CLP, since CLP will attract the dirt to stay on your weapon, as well as every night meticulously taking every round out from the magazines, and brushed them off so the extra sand/dust buildup wouldn't be an issue..

Its all about how you take care of them.

But yes, its trigger discipline. Which is why they designed the M16a2 in the first place... Too many during Vietnam would hold the trigger down on their M16a1... essentially melting or warping their barrels.
The M16a2 doesn't have a fully automatic feature for that very reason.


And I must say, there is no better DAKKADAKKADAKKDAKKA in the world than talking guns (Preferably Golfs)... Putting rounds down range and destroying hopes and dreams all at the same time.

Krujiente, on 01 February 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

The feed system on it (along with all auto-cannons) is probably pretty similar, the only real difference I can feel is the payload. Sides if you use the AC20 it sure feels like a grenade launcher :V

I would say using the AC20 is more like using a Howitzer. Since its a 203mm round.

The ACDeuce is like a 30mm.

[Joseph Mallan]

Krujiente, on 01 February 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

The feed system on it (along with all auto-cannons) is probably pretty similar, the only real difference I can feel is the payload. Sides if you use the AC20 it sure feels like a grenade launcher :V

Right now our obvious 203MM AC20s are firing at a cyclic rate on par with what that caliber already fires. Our AC2 is firing a lot faster than a Crusher Super Heavy Cannon. It fires 10 shells in 9 seconds BUT the MW:O AC2 fires 19 shells in 10 seconds or the equivalent of an Ultra 20!

[Joseph Mallan]

Wittyname Terribad, on 01 February 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

It can be argued either way, really. 3 UAC5 can do that. I've got screens of 700-900 in Victors with 2UAC5 2LL, I've got one of 1400 in a DDC with 2 UAC5 2LL. The weapon is no ineffective with it's current balance, is all I'm saying

As I have started saying Perception is everything, I don't have a problem personally with 3 Ultras being brought to the dance. I don't get that level of destructoin, so I find them to be an under achieving weapon. And the calls for Nerf are not cool cause if you bring enough of any weapon you will get OP results.

[wanderer]

People forget that AC's mix calibers and fire rates.

Marauder AC/5's are 120mm's, but fire at a much lower number of shells than the Rifleman 60mm cannons - which use the smaller, higher-fire-rate guns for AA work. Both deliver the same amount of damage,just using different sized shells and amounts to do so. They're also cassette fed guns- Ultras tend to jam up when you try and slap a new cassette in to fire while the original one is still too hot from firing, producing a jammed feed. MWO is nice in that it lets you auto-clear the jam- In TT, the gun's dead until a tech can get in there and repair the feed mechanism as it burns out the system (it TT, it's the second-gen rotary AC's that have built in jam-clearing).

It's a lot like tube size for missiles in MWO. Fire 5 at a time from a small mounted LRM 20 or 20 at once from a Catapult, you're still chucking 20 missiles in damage at the target.

Edited by wanderer, 01 February 2014 - 07:16 AM.

[lsp]

Krujiente, on 01 February 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

******* right? I bought a mini-14 because they're known to be ridiculously rugged. I never seen it jam, just sometimes some of my more ancient magazines won't eject. A MAGAZINE being placed wrong or being inferior chinese magazine on my buddies AK would cause it jam. That's right. Kalashnikov will jam if one part is kinda crappy. I can't imagine what the IS is working with but I assume it can't be pretty. Especially since the Ultra is basically a giant sized belt fed automatic grenade launcher.

Sidenote: I rock with Ultras. I ruin things with Ultras, I decided I won't use more than 1 ultra BECAUSE of how good I find them. (unless its a Jager because they're pretty vulnerable)

The mini-14 is junk, the worlds most expensive plinking rifle. Ak's jamming is not common, they have loose tolerances for a reason. If your buddys ak is jamming with a certian magazine it's because that magazine needs a new spring, and that's it.


Also, the jam rate for the uac5 is total bull, the uac5 should operate like the Vulcan M134 minigun. For mallan, the 249 doesn't jam that bad, unless it's full of dirt and dust and the operator doesn't take care of his weapon. Plus it's not a good comparison to the uac5, not even the same type of firearm.

It's just a lame mechanic for a bad game, that makes no sense like usual. "balanced"

Edited by lsp, 01 February 2014 - 12:45 PM.

[Krujiente]

lsp, on 01 February 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

The mini-14 is junk, the worlds most expensive plinking rifle. Ak's jamming is not common, they have loose tolerances for a reason. If your buddys ak is jamming with a certian magazine it's because that magazine needs a new spring, and that's it.


Also, the jam rate for the uac5 is total bull, the uac5 should operate like the Vulcan M134 minigun. For mallan, the 249 doesn't jam that bad, unless it's full of dirt and dust and the operator doesn't take care of his weapon. Plus it's not a good comparison to the uac5, not even the same type of firearm.

It's just a lame mechanic for a bad game, that makes no sense like usual. "balanced"

If you plink with a .223/5.56x45 you're a {Dezgra}. Mini-14s are great, except for that junk decade they had and I certainly wouldn't buy a new one. The UAC5 had its heyday in Ultra-pocolypse which I was around for. If you really feel that for the measley 1 ton extra the ultra should be able to constantly double the damage output of a regular AC5 then I think you have problems. To the point though, anything fired with 0 trigger discipline is going to start malfunctioning and the SAW needs to provide suppressing fire down range frequenly given its role, so it will jam and you need to replace the barrel fairly often. People playing MWO need to learn that the ultra actually requires trigger discipline, sometimes you have to fire it like an AC5. Sometimes you get to use it's double tap in bursts. And if the Ultra 5 is a minigun, what the hell is the rotary 5 which fires 6 times in the time the ultra fires 2? The "minigun" skin is just a poor aesthetic design choice on the MWO art design's part.

Edited by Krujiente, 01 February 2014 - 02:20 PM.

[Firewuff]

High risk and high reward. my heavies damaging mech is a dual UAC-5 mech. I also carry 2 LLAS as backups and a MG just to crit crazy when the armor is gone. I've gone whole matches with out a jam and also only fired 10 shot because it kept jamming.... its all risk vs reward.

I could take AC5's but I'd never pull the 600 avg, 1k max damage I do with that mech

[LiGhtningFF13]

@Krujiente, hey these gifs are just awesome can't stop laughing! By the way what do I learned from this thread here? Never compare games with reality especially mechwarrior !

[Noesis]

I agree that the UAC5 would be sent back for a rethink before being considered by modern armies for use.

Having a RL firearms license however does not make you an expert in balancing futuristic computer games.

Not when funsics are known to be applied in MWO instead of physics and economics.

In fact if RL warfare with all its horror where applied in MWO it would not really be a "fun game to play" and we would likely lose a lot of the player base in the process with a special forum section then needed for crying mothers instead of players.